Let's optimize a skill-master!


Advice


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Taking the focus off of combat for once, let's build the ultimate skill-build. Of course skills like Intimidate and Acrobatics will remain useful in battle, and remaining combat relevant is certainly a plus, but not the focus. It might be a lot to ask but if it were easy it wouldn't need optimizing. ;)

What I'd like to see is an amazing party face, a top-notch diplomat and a bluff with no equal. A practiced skill-monkey, perceive and disable any trap, a stealth capable of hiding in the smoke from a tea light candle and pickpocketing the sod who lit it. Street smart and book smart, knowledge of all things one could ever consider useful, and many things that couldn't be. Essentially, we want this master-of-all-trades to be as good at as many useful skills as is possible.

The earlier, the better, but any level build is fine. Let's see what the optimized out of combat character is capable of. Have at it!

-Atra


consider this

Weapon Snatcher (Ex)

Prerequisite: Advanced talents

Benefit: A rogue with this talent can make a Sleight of Hand check in place of a combat maneuver check when attempting to disarm an opponent.

Silver Crusade

I'd say a good base would either be a Bard or an Alchemist.


Human Bard with lots of Intelligence.

Option A: Archaeologist because Archaeologist Luck is better at self-buffing than Bardic Performance. Regretfully he loses versatile performance which is a great skill ranks saver.

EDIT: Archaeologist retains Bard's Lore adding half level to Knowledge checks and at 2nd level gets to add half the level to Perception and Disable Device checks.

Option B: Regular Bard. Versatile Performance with careful selection of Perform skills does great things to save skill ranks... Three skills for the price of one.

Option C: Archivist. Because taking 20 on Knowledge checks once per day at 2nd level is good and making untrained skill checks for all skills at 5th is better.

For characters focusing on Knowledges and Professions make it Elven Bard with Breadth Of Experience feat instead.


If I had to pick a class to fit all of that it would be an Archaeologist Bard.

Good at social skills - Decent Cha and some spells to back it up
Trapfinding as a rogue + half lvl to disable device
Half lvl to perception
Stealth - um...invisibility is the only way to roll.
Bardic Knowledge
Jack of all trades

You loose versatile performance but you also don't need the perform skill at all so that frees up a few skill slots. Overall the archaeologist may not be as strong as a normal bard socially but they make up for it in the rogue aspects.


No one does skills than a Mindchemist. Double your Int bonus for knowledges? Yeah! Be an elf, get breadth of knowledge, crank that Int bonus. At level 20, you will still have a +32 or so to all your knowledge skills without ever putting a single skill point into any of them.

Max out 14-15 other skills. Get a good headband for 3 more.

Profit.


Wizard / Rogue build. Rogue takes the talents survivalist and getaway artist and this combo now has every skill in the game, by level 5 (or quicker if you're willing to use character traits to get access to class skills without using rogue talents), as a class skill and a need for a high enough INT to be dangerous in terms of skill points per level.

Allocate the points as you wish to make whatever fancies your suit!


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A human Lore Warden / Alchemist (Mindchemist) / Rogue with a maximized INT, the Human alternative racial feature - Focused Study that grants three bonus Skill Focus feats in place of the human bonus feat (at level 1, 8 and 16) would have tons of skill ranks as well as the majority of every skill in the game as a class skill.

(the Lore Warden / Rogue is only lacking Fly and Heal as class skills, adding levels of Alchemist (Mindchemist) means those two skills as well are class skills - meaning that this character would have every skill in the game as a class skill from level 3 onward (though you might want to stack levels in one or more classes early on - I'd suggest starting with Lore Warden for 2-3 levels, then Alchemist for 2 levels, then Rogue for a few levels then picking which class to progress further in - any could be strong choices - rogue would give the most Skill ranks but Alchemist and Lore Warden aren't too far behind.

You probably could take a few useful traits to add bonuses to certain key skills over an above what you will get from stats and class ranks.

I'd probably suggest:

INT > CHA > DEX > WIS > CON > STR for this character though getting the balance of stats right would be tricky - you want a very high INT for the maximal Mindchemist bonus to Knowledge skills as well as the most skill ranks possible for this concept - but you can't dump CHA or WIS due to their impact on key skills (and would probably want some bonuses from them if possible) STR impacts other skills (though likely the least important skills for this character though he'll probably be in at most light armor). DEX would help with a few skills but also with AC (and finess if you go that combat route) and CON would mostly help with saves and HP.

Prestige classes you might consider would be Scholar of War (though straight Lore Warden may be stronger) and there are af few others that give good skill ranks and boosts though possibly not stronger than continuing in any of your three main classes.

Kirin Style is another tempting option - though it has a lot of feat requirements for this type of build (which suffers from somewhat of a lack of feats) .

As a alternative to a human you might consider a race that could qualify for Breadth of Knowledge - but personally I think the 20 bonus skill ranks from being Human plus the three bonus skill focuses from Focused Study would be hard to beat for this type of character.

If somehow you could manage a high CHA as well as a very high INT you might also consider Eldritch Heritages to further leverage those bonus Skill Focuses.

I think such a character might be really fun (I'm already playing a Tiefling Lore Warden who is going to be multiclassing - very likely into Alchemist (mindchemist) and potentially into Rogue as well - I don't get the human skill bonuses and he dumped WIS and CHA so will never be a total skill monkey - but if I go the Mindchemist route he will have +14 or more on EVERY Knowledge skill at level 5 (assuming a +2 INT headband - with the headband also giving him bonus ranks to some other skill). Already at level 3 he has more often than not served as the skill monkey/knowledge guy for every party he has been in (this is for PFS play)


Somewhat relevant question:

What is the smallest amount of class dips it would take to acquire every skill as a class skill?

Or, all but 2 of them (last 2 acquired w/ traits)?

I think the best skill master will have a bard chasis, but would dip just enough to get every skill as a class skill and possibly dip Mindchemist for the double Int on knowledges.


Lore Warden (Fighter Skills + ALL INT skills) + Rogue gets all skills but Fly & Heal - not sure if there is a trait that gives you Fly (I think there is one that gives you Heal)

I'm sure that Bard + Rogue would get you pretty close - have to check what if anything that would miss.

Potentially leveraging bonus class skills from classes that have options that grant skills might also be an interesting method - i.e. some Domains, some Oracle mysteries, all Sorcerer Bloodlines have some bonus class skills attached with them.

(however for a skill monkey build you probably want to stick with classes that have at least 4+INT skill points probably preferably ones that have 6 or 8 + INT (though if Human you may have a bit more flexibility)

You also have to decide if the goal is to have max ranks in every skill you want or to have a solid score on most skills with a few skills at max ranks? Between boosts like Mindchemist to all knowledge skills (and/or Bardic Knowledge) plus a few Skill Focus feats you could get very high scores on quite a few skills (especially if you also get some racial bonuses)

A Bard gets somewhat tricky when you start to factor in whether using Versatile Performance makes sense - means you have to have multiple Perform Skills but you get to use those for multiple other skills.

Certain traits also could change how you balance this type of character's ability scores - Wisdom of the Flesh (Irori trait) allows you to use WIS for a single physical skill (DEX or STR) which can be fantastic for the right build.

I think it would be hard to have strong skills across the board on every skill type - but likely very possible to have exceptional INT skills scores and likely the same character could have very good CHA or WIS skill ranks - but getting all three mental traits skills high would be difficult.


Rogue is missing a lot more than 2 skills.

Also, I just realized Expert NPC class gets any 10 skills of your choice as class skills, so the technically correct answer is "any class missing 10 or less skills + expert."


Bard with Lore Oracle. Use your CHA for all Knowledge Skills, Armor Class, Reflex Saves, and spells. Makes you the perfect Face, all Knowledge Skills are class skills.

The Exchange

Trait for disable device, and bard/Druid covers all bases as well.

I'm pretty sure urban ranger gets there as well, and is way less terrible than expert.

Well Bard + urban ranger gets us everything except fly and handle animal (I know there is a trait for handle animal)

Ranger is probably a better dip because of.. well stuff.

If we want to keep with ranger levels we even get trapfinding and 6x skills/level.

Trait: Jungle Guide gives handle animal. So if that one is important it gets us everything buy fly, so lets assume that doesn't matter a heap.

Bard OR Urban Ranger lots with a dip into the other, human with at least 14 int should get you in pretty good shape.


My game has a gunslinger(mysterious stranger) 1/bard(archaeologist) x in it and that covers every skill but fly (with disable device through the trait). They do battlefield control with whip and spells and occasionally shoot somebody in the face. Now if they would have just picked a name besides Jones...


I am utterly shocked at any one naming mindchemist. Can't you guys recognize options presented to be crap without it being spelled out?


Benrislove wrote:
Well Bard + urban ranger gets us everything except fly and handle animal (I know there is a trait for handle animal

Versatile Performance (Dance) would cover Fly and thus it'd effectively "become" a class skill.


What makes the mindchemist crap? Cognatogen isn't as nice as mutagen since it deals trait damage that lingers but the boost to knowledge skills is nice and a few levels of alchemist offers a lot to a multiclass concept. (Bombs, a few extracts, access to discoveries). In PFS play you get extra bombs instead of Brew Potion and both offer nice utility. A high int character will have particularly useful bombs.


I've made and played this character as a Bard with a level of Trapper Ranger. This character was far from a combat threat, especially since he maxed intelligence, but he was still a bard. Between Haste, Good Hope, and Inspire Courage, nobody really doubted his effectiveness.

For the important part, he was getting something like 14 skill ranks/level, (played him levels 8-12) but it was really way more than that. Bardic Knowledge gave him an absurd amount of extra ranks for Knowledge skills, and Versatile Performance effectively gave him an extra couple of skill ranks on top of that. I suppose I cheated a tiny bit with Versatile Performance (Dance) to effectively get Fly as a class skill, but wouldn't you know it, it never came up. Trapper Ranger gave him all the skills a Bard misses except Fly, and of course it granted the important-if-stupid Trapfinding class feature.

Finally, with the skill bonuses inherent to a ton of spells that Bards get, they are really the best at this, hands down. (Liberating Command, Deadeye Lore, Glibness.) He was a great character. I really hope to revisit him someday.


bfobar wrote:
My game has a gunslinger(mysterious stranger) 1/bard(archaeologist) x in it and that covers every skill but fly (with disable device through the trait). They do battlefield control with whip and spells and occasionally shoot somebody in the face. Now if they would have just picked a name besides Jones...

Lol, badass. Suggestions:

-Sebastian Spade
-Gideon Trumpete
-Blane Braveblade
-Seneca Kinless
-Quinn Hawk
-Bolt Johnson
-Chase Chasington
-Dirk Lonefury
-Brass Colton
-Canius Rex
-Jake Gentry
-Jedediah Jackson
-Morrison Graves
-Dirk Derickson
-Roger Thornby
-Brian Montgomery
-Franklin Frost

Grand Lodge

Dirk Diggler?

Dark Archive

A Human Bard with Focused Study in Perform skills, Racial Heritage and Breadth of Experience. Take a rogue level if you need to disarm magical traps.


I would go human archeologist and take the human racial feats to get to use all skills untrained with a +4 bonus. That way you can max out those skills you really want and still have every other skill at 4+relevant stat. In the case of knowledge skills add to that the bardic knowledge bonus.


Max Power!


Castatra wrote:

Taking the focus off of combat for once, let's build the ultimate skill-build. Of course skills like Intimidate and Acrobatics will remain useful in battle, and remaining combat relevant is certainly a plus, but not the focus. It might be a lot to ask but if it were easy it wouldn't need optimizing. ;)

What I'd like to see is an amazing party face, a top-notch diplomat and a bluff with no equal. A practiced skill-monkey, perceive and disable any trap, a stealth capable of hiding in the smoke from a tea light candle and pickpocketing the sod who lit it. Street smart and book smart, knowledge of all things one could ever consider useful, and many things that couldn't be. Essentially, we want this master-of-all-trades to be as good at as many useful skills as is possible.

The earlier, the better, but any level build is fine. Let's see what the optimized out of combat character is capable of. Have at it!

-Atra

I think a Ninja fits perfectly, 8+int mod skill points per level, more combat viable then a Rogue, charisma based for being a party face.


Truesight wrote:
A Human Bard with Focused Study in Perform skills, Racial Heritage and Breadth of Experience. Take a rogue level if you need to disarm magical traps.

Or if you don't need to max-rank your knowledge skills (or just don't want to play a human that's over 100 years old) you can take Dilettante instead of Breadth of Experience and save a feat.

Sczarni

considering max age for humans is 110. you'd have at most 10 years to live... and you'd be at a -3 for any str/dex/con based skills as well.

And on average your character would die of old age by the time he qualified for the feat, or die shortly after.

As a human that is.


It's also kind of sad to think about a character who doesn't get their first PC level until after their 100th birthday. Talk about a late bloomer!

Also, it's -6 to str/dex/con, not -3 (aging bonuses/penalties stack.)


A highly regarded expert wrote:
Max Power!

Lol!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDA-SAwz2VQ&feature=related#t=0m9s

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