
Tesserex |
Hi there...
So in the break between Mod 4 and 5 of Kingmaker... a lot of stuff happened. I'm not going to get into specifics, but a kobold tribe hatched a red dragon, my players found out, and they decided to go see the red dragon for themselves and without permission of the kobolds, teleported the red dragon hatchling to a desolate area. This had about a billion ramifications, but now I'm faced with a problem.
I'm not really good at role-playing Evil. The red dragon began by being generally unpleasant - though just a hatchling, he knows he can't kill the PCs since they are level 13 (and while he can't guess their level, he can tell that they can kill him). The dragon was hatched in a cage, and he is unable to escape his kobold worshipers until the PCs teleport him out.
Now the PCs are baby sitting this red dragon until they come up with an idea on how to deal with it. For now, I've been role=playing the red dragon as fairly pleasant but reveling in occasional violence (because he knows that the sooner he acts "good" the sooner the PCs will leave him be). He hasn't tried to run away yet because he knows that a PC will just kill him, and he's not stupid.
The party had a long discussion about it, and they have decided that one of them is going to leave the party and try to raise the red dragon lawful good. Fat chance in hell, but if there was ever a party to do it, this is the one.
Anyway...I just need some help playing up the evil part while being survivalist. What kind of things would a red dragon hatchling do to escape, or maybe what kind of things could make a red dragon ignore the call to do evil?
Needless to say, this has been one heck of a session, and when the kobolds found out the treachery, they raised arms against the PCs kingdom and proceeded to die against the paladin army. This has torn not only the kingdom, but the party in half, so it's been a really great plot twist.

Thomas Long 175 |
there actually used to be rules on this back in 3.5 and while I don't particularly like how they did it (a series of diplomacy checks vs will saves + cr (character level)) the basic principle was sound.
The idea was to sit with an evil doer everyday over a long period of time. You had to show them kindness. You couldn't threaten them. You fed them well and gave them somewhere nice to stay, good accommodations.
Every day for at least an hour the person who was trying to make them recant and talk to them. The conversations really weren't all that focused. It could be the nature of their past crimes, what happened to the people, the nature of the world, the benefits of living a good life. Basically just hold a conversation with them, while showing them that while you may be good, that doesn't mean you're weak.
The original system rules were you had to make a diplomacy check every day with the aforementioned dc and beat it for 2 weeks straight. I don't particularly like that because, as much as I'm a powergamer over roleplayer, it pretty much means "I turn bad guy good by walking in and making a roll 1/day for 2 weeks."
Pretty much just the longer they keep him, the more they show that they're strong and good, and the more they talk to him about the benefits of a positive life, the more he should shift. If you need a mechanical you could do a daily diplomacy with him starting hostile and add 10 to the dc?

Arlock Blackwind |
i tdid have a system for non magical curing of insanity for 3.5 I think, do not quote me but it was basicly a diplomacy/profession shrink vrs cha/will spell dc of insanity if thats how they got it. you use the hp of the creature X2 to show its mental capasity of the diseas or in this case agliment. and when you win you do 1d6 dmg whn you loose it gains 1d6 hp until full. you roll for a single session witch is roughly two to four hours of work. you show progress at the same time show failure from enforcing the creature to remain it's own alignment.

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Raising a Dragon
Raising a true dragon from an egg until it’s large enough
to use as a mount can take several years. Even lesser dragons,
such as wyverns, mature at such a slow rate that most characters
simply aren’t willing to wait the necessary amount
of time.
For rules on how to raise a newly hatched dragon, see the
Rearing a Dragon sidebar, page 13. When you successfully
complete the rearing process, you can begin to teach the
domesticated dragon how to perform tasks.
Although intelligent, a dragon requires training before it
can bear a rider in combat. Training a dragon you have reared
to serve as a mount requires six weeks of work and a DC 25
Handle Animal check. Riding a dragon requires an exotic
saddle. A dragon can fight while carrying a rider, but the
rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride
check (see the Ride skill, page 80 of the Player’s Handbook).
Even a trained or “tamed” dragon is still a dragon, not an
ordinary domestic animal, with its own needs and desires.
A young dragon is more like a very intelligent child than
a simple animal (Intelligence score ranging from 8 to 18,
depending on age and kind) and may well be smarter than
its rider. With such a creature, patience and tact produce
better results than harsh words and punishment. Expect a
dragon to learn quickly, but allow for its inexperience to
cause mistakes. Like children and pets, dragons get tired,
and it’s best to let them rest when they do.
Negotiating Service
It’s likely that a character seeking a draconic mount can’t
or won’t put in the time necessary to rear a dragon. In such
a case, the best option is to bargain with your would-be
mount. (Using magic such as charmspells is a mistake, since
the magic eventually wears off, and such coercion angers
the dragon.) These negotiations always require some form of
payment or reward to the dragon, which should take a form
appropriate to the dragon variety (such as pearls for a bronze
dragon) and should amount to at least 500 gp per HD of the
dragon per year of service—paid in advance, of course, generally
as soon as the negotiations are over.
Most potential dragon mounts begin with an indifferent
attitude toward a character who approaches them. A dragon
whose attitude is changed to helpful (see Influencing NPC
Attitudes, page 72 of the Player’s Handbook) by a character
can be trained to serve as a mount, but only as long as it is
treated well and regularly rewarded. Promising an increased
reward can help persuade a dragon to cooperate; each additional
payment of 500 gp per HD provides a +2 circumstance
bonus on any Diplomacy check made to change the
dragon’s attitude. You can’t retry a failed Diplomacy check
for the same purpose unless the DM decides that the circumstances
merit giving you another chance (for instance,
if you perform a great favor for the dragon).
A dragon whose alignment isn’t within one step of its
rider’s isn’t likely to serve for very long, even if the initial
negotiations succeed.
From Draconomicon

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13
CHAPTER 1:
ALL ABOUT
DRAGONS
RULES: REARING A DRAGON
Being an adoptive parent to a dragon is no easy task. Even
good-aligned dragons have a sense of superiority and an
innate yearning for freedom. Most dragons instinctively defer
to older dragons of the same kind, but they tend to regard
other creatures with some disdain.
Older and wiser dragons eventually learn to respect nondragons
for their abilities and accomplishments, but a newly
hatched wyrmling tends to regard a nondragon foster parent as
a captor—or at best as a well-meaning fool. Still, it is possible
for a nondragon character to forge a bond with a newly hatched
wyrmling. Accomplishing this requires the use of Diplomacy or
Intimidate as well as (eventually) the Handle Animal skill.
A character seeking to rear a newly hatched wyrmling must
begin with a Diplomacy or Intimidate check to persuade the
dragon to accept the character’s guidance; 5 or more ranks of
Knowledge (arcana) gives the character a +2 bonus on the
check. The character’s Diplomacy or Intimidate check is
opposed by a Sense Motive check by the dragon. The dragon
has a +15 racial bonus on its check. Certain other conditions,
such as those mentioned on the table below, can further
modify the wyrmling’s Sense Motive check.
Condition Modifier
Character tended the dragon’s egg while –2
it was incubating
Character was present at the dragon’s hatching –5
Each component of dragon’s alignment –5
in common with the character’s1
1 Alignment components are chaos, evil, good, law, and
neutral.
This opposed check is rolled secretly by the DM, so that the
player of the character does not immediately know the result
of the check. If the wyrmling wins the opposed check, it
regards the character as a captor and attempts to gain its freedom
any way it can. (Most dragons, even newly hatched wyrmlings,
are smart enough to forego an immediate attack on a
more powerful being, and will wait for the right opportunity to
escape.) No attempt by this character to rear this dragon can
succeed. This opposed check cannot be retried.
If the character wins this opposed check, he or she can attempt
to rear the dragon. The process takes 5 years, but once the rearing
period begins, the character need only devote one day a week
to the dragon’s training. Throughout the rearing period, however,
the dragon must be fed and housed at a cost of 10 gp per day.
When the rearing period has run its course, the character
attempts a Handle Animal check (DC 20 + the dragon’s Hit
Dice at the very young stage). Only one check is made, rolled
secretly by the DM. A failed check cannot be retried. If the character’s
Handle Animal check fails, the dragon is not successfully
reared and seeks to leave, as noted above. If the check
succeeds, the character can begin to train the dragon to
perform tasks (the most common of which is serving as a
mount; see Dragons as Mounts, page 136, and the Handle
Animal skill, page 74 of the Player’s Handbook).
For many characters, the ultimate purpose of rearing a
dragon is to make it available to the character as a cohort. To
rear a dragon for this reason, the character must have taken
the Leadership feat (see page 106 of the Dungeon Master’s
Guide) by the time the rearing period expires, and must have a
sufficiently high Leadership score to attract the dragon as a
cohort at that time (using the dragon’s Hit Dice at the very
young stage as its cohort level). Also, the dragon’s alignment
must not be opposed to the character’s alignment on either
the law-vs.-chaos or good-vs.-evil axis (for example, a lawful
good character cannot attempt to rear a chaotic evil wyrmling).
For more information, see Dragons as Cohorts, page 138.
The page 13 section

Bacon666 |
Helmet of opposite alignment in the loot next encounter? As an easy choise... Otherwise let the dragon play good, claiming "accidents" as childish play until it can kill the players in their sleep or in 1 on 1 combat...perhaps playing good can even make the players train it in combat/magic... All that is needed is the ability to cast nondetection...
This is how I as a gm would rp the dragon... An actual alignment change would come from player rp... Not rule mechanics...

Sissyl |

A red dragon hatchling is a true menace, just one that isn't too mighty yet. It knows it will be, though. It has time, so its priority is staying alive. If that takes groveling and pretending to be good, so be it. However, good is an iffy concept to a being born to understand only strength, glory and greed. It will honestly be baffled by what they want it to do, at least at first. It's painfully intelligent, though, so it will understand their goals well enough, and adapt very quickly.
Now... if it can cause conflict within the party, say, by claiming that "But, George here said it was okay if I..." or even just asking them what they think of one another, spreading lies or the like, it will. If someone is wounded, it has a far better chance to kill them, especially if they have started to trust it. A red dragon is typically chaotic evil, and should act as such. If it has someone within its power, whether it's a human or an animal, its cruelty will shine through. It ENJOYS inflicting pain and fear, and won't kill if there is still hours of sport to be had with the victim without losing other goals. It loves gold and other valuables, and will often gravitate toward discussing treasure, splitting of treasure, storing of treasure, and so on.
That is what I would have done. Think smart, evil kitten.