Hi everyone
I'm attempting to build a Cleric/Rogue...I envisioned someone like Altaïr or Ezio from the Assassin's Creed games with a little more of a divine slant. looking though the gods and low and behold not one good god with the Trickery domain... not one. ::headdesk:::
I seriously wanted to use the Deception sub-domain option. (Miss me and I move into position to take out someone else). My basic build idea was a Rogue (Knife Master)/Cleric (???) and use the spring loaded wrist sheaths for my daggers (TWF) but I’m kind of stuck…
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But there are Neutral deities with the Trickery domain (Calistria, Besmara, Sivanah, Sun Wukong*). You can play a Good Cleric of one of those. There may be others from the expanded list that I don't have access to right now.
*from Dragon Empires material
EDIT: I was slow to hit the submit button so, of course, I got ninja'ed.
Assassins tend not to be the most Good of people anyways...
I looked at Besmara but in all honesty it simply would not fit the character...Besmara just seems to not be the type of god that would have "a holy assassin"
Calistria would just be about vengeance... again just not a good fit
The Lantern King, would he/it even care?
Sivanah seems to be the only choice, but again, I just don't see her having any martial types following her..
the total lack of a holy avenger type god is so frustrating.
I can always chose a god and play the character the way I wish, but then whats the point of even having a god.
in pathfinder can you worship as aspect? or do you HAVE to follow a god?
Assassins tend not to be the most Good of people anyways...
Play assassin's creed and you will see how you can easily play a good assassin.
you just don't for it for gold..
Keep in mind, sometimes a well placed knife can stop a war which kills thousands and staves hundreds from starvation.
its the motive behind the knife that matters
The base Golarion is set up such that clerics can't worship a concept. Your GM is free to house rule that away.
Perhaps an inquisitor might fit your character better?
There's always Achaekek :D
The base Golarion is set up such that clerics can't worship a concept. Your GM is free to house rule that away.
Can't this is for the pathfinder campaign... I'm playing a home game but its a different system ::smirks::
Perhaps an inquisitor might fit your character better?
Already have one...
There's always Achaekek :D
ya.....no
Do they have alternate alignment Paladins in pathfinder?
I may just have to suck up NOT having the Deception sub-domain... but its just so fitting for the character concept.
::grumbles::
Just the CE Antipaladin.
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Hmm... there's always the Separatist Cleric Archetype, as a last resort.
(If you still go with the rogue/cleric variant)
Just the CE Antipaladin.
Pathfinder campaign.. and the character would fall out of CE within 10 seconds.. again good character.. (CG)
Just the CE Antipaladin.Pathfinder campaign.. and the character would fall out of CE within 10 seconds.. again good character.. (CG)
Just answering the question about variant paladins =)
Hmm... there's always the Separatist Cleric Archetype, as a last resort.
(If you still go with the rogue/cleric variant)
OMG..... I love you.
Rogue (Knife Master)/Cleric (Separatist) member of a secret order within the church.... the men and women that do what must be done...
Ohhhhhhh I like where this is going
now just have to look at feats and stuff...
Hmm... there's always the Separatist Cleric Archetype, as a last resort.
(If you still go with the rogue/cleric variant)OMG..... I love you.
Rogue (Knife Master)/Cleric (Separatist) member of a secret order within the church.... the men and women that do what must be done...
Ohhhhhhh I like where this is going
now just have to look at feats and stuff...
Your description is pretty much the inspiration for Inquisitors, so you may want to take a look at the class.
Your description is pretty much the inspiration for Inquisitors, so you may want to take a look at the class.Hmm... there's always the Separatist Cleric Archetype, as a last resort.
(If you still go with the rogue/cleric variant)OMG..... I love you.
Rogue (Knife Master)/Cleric (Separatist) member of a secret order within the church.... the men and women that do what must be done...
Ohhhhhhh I like where this is going
now just have to look at feats and stuff...
Perhaps an inquisitor might fit your character better?Already have one...
Trickery is not inherently evil. Tricksters, like the native American Coyote god, are often chaotic good.
Personaly I just like playing a sneaky cleic. Trickery is fine, but not the best option always.
I want the deception sub-domain not the trickery domain per-say
I don't see why Sivanah wouldn't work...? There's nothing about her opposed to 'martial' tactics...?
I also don't see the problem with Sun Wukong/The Monkey King...
You seem to think he 'wouldn't care'... Why? I don't see any reason why he is more apathetic than other gods, and given that few gods take direct hands in ANY material plane matters, so what if it's true? You are just a Cleric receiving powers from him as long as you stay in line with his ethos... who cares if he cares?
just to be clear: are you really set on being a cleric of A GOOD DEITY?
not just being good yourself, but working for somebody where Good is part of the job description?
if so, i can understand objection to some of the core options listed (and so separatist would definitely make sense)
I have had a character who was definitely a Trickery focused Cleric, of Sivanah.
The character was born with a birthmark of Sivanah, and was thus linked to her from birth (and barely lived to be an adult for that reason, given he was a Varisian born in Nidal, who persecuted anybody half-believed to be assocaited with Sivanah).
Now Sivanah isn't really all goody-goody, but she doesn't object to her followers being so. It does mean that you may not trust each and every follower of her that you run into, even if they are also Sivanah clerics like you are.
But I think you shouldn't overlook Sivanah as 'holy avenger' material, most markedly because of her conflict with Nidal and Zon-Kuthon, where she is basically in open conflict with them, yet not having countries and armies of her own, she will respond in more subtle ways. A cleric/inquisitor of Sivanah who has anything at all to do with Nidal (as opposed to the other side of the world, not having anything to do with Nidal) will likely be functioning as some sort of 'holy avenger' fighting the forces of Nidal.
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Bit of a derail, but "the ends justifies the means" is the first resort of monsters throughout human history. There wasn't one war criminal that didn't think he was doing good.Assassins tend not to be the most Good of people anyways...Play assassin's creed and you will see how you can easily play a good assassin.
you just don't for it for gold..
Keep in mind, sometimes a well placed knife can stop a war which kills thousands and staves hundreds from starvation.
its the motive behind the knife that matters
you do have a point, but there are times that the law is manipulated or a villain's social standing makes him impossible to face...
For example, I had played a home game some time back where the major villain was 0 level NPC with immense social and political power. We knew he was behind many of the plots we uncovered.. heck he once told us to our face.. but we had no evidence to prove any of it.
the campaign ended with 4 heroes, three LG, taking on the rolls of assassins, we broke into his manner and killed him in cold blood. All this after we uncovered his involvement the local, and very brutal, slave trade... again we knew he was guilty but the had no proof (the only witness we had was assassinated by a dimension dooring assassin with a arrow of slaying)
the campaign ended with a paladin falling from grace, turning himself in to the law as the rest of us escaping the city....
there are times that the ends clearly justifies the means
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Holy crap! A paladin who actually respects the code and doesn't try to find ways to weasel around it?! Astounding.
But I think you shouldn't overlook Sivanah as 'holy avenger' material, most markedly because of her conflict with Nidal and Zon-Kuthon, where she is basically in open conflict with them, yet not having countries and armies of her own, she will respond in more subtle ways. A cleric/inquisitor of Sivanah who has anything at all to do with Nidal (as opposed to the other side of the world, not having anything to do with Nidal) will likely be functioning as some sort of 'holy avenger' fighting the forces of Nidal.
How common is Nidal in the campaign?
I'm wary about choosing one enemy to focus on... I once made a ranger in grayhawk who was all about killing orcs (the region and it's war against a Orc nation).. needless to say we never faced Orcs.
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Holy crap! A paladin who actually respects the code and doesn't try to find ways to weasel around it?! Astounding.
it was an amazing moment in the campaign... the player wrote a speech which he read before his character was behead by the head of his Templar order..
What really got to us was when the head of the order thanked him for his sacrifice...
we also got to watch the role playing when he faced his god's Valinor (think angel) when he was granted passage to haven.
epic ending.....
Nidal is as common/involved in your campaign as your GM wants it to be.
Golarion is already set up like a patchwork quilt, with pretty much NO country being so important that they will always be a factor in any campaign no matter where in Golarion you go. Any character should have specific connections which aren't going to be universal across the setting, so I don't see this as being particularly different.
I would say that Nidal is a factor in their surrounding region, namely Varisa, Cheliax, Rahadoum, Molthune, Nirmathas... but wherever your GM wants to involve them (or Zon-Kuthonites, practically the same as far as Sivanha is concerned) would make sense. For my character, they fled Nidal so that they wouldn't be killed, and lived with their Varisian family's 'contacts' in various parts of the Inner Sea region, but being hunted down by agents of the Umbral Court/ Z-K is an ongoing fear of theirs. Of course, the character also tends to do things which bring the conflict to those same forces.
Clerics or other characters strongly built around a specific Deity are almost always going to involve some amount of GM involvement, in ways more so than Rangers with racial Favored Enemies. I don't see why you shouldn't be asking your GM about these sorts of things, discussing what Deity would be good to develop your character connection to. That doesn't mean every adventure is going to be crucially connected to said deity - and certainly not IMMEDIATELY APPARENT to you that there is such a connection. But Sivanha is a pretty good deity to devote yourself to in that regard, she's all about secrets, so if you are uncovering SOME sort of secret, then it's counting as being vaguely related to her interests, right? That she has a conflict with Z-K and Nidal's Umbral Court is just another hook for the GM to involve your ACTUAL character...
If you had some backstory involving a family feud and people who want you dead (no religion involved) and your GM failed to integrate that all, I don't see a fundamental difference. Clerics aren't really missing out on any class mechanical features if they aren't doing stuff particularly relevant to their deity though, unlike Rangers' Favored Enemy. Paladins don't really make sense in a campaign with no Evil BBEG's, since they should be seeking out Evil to vanquish, not contenting themself with fighting Neutral forces who aren't quite in the best interests of all (etc).
FYI, I found the Infiltrator Archetype for Inquisitor (Ult. Magic) to be very appropriate to an Inquisitor of Sivanha who grew up hounded by Zon-Kuthonites for their connection to Sivanha (evident from birth-mark Holy Symbol).
Nidal is as common/involved in your campaign as your GM wants it to be.
Oh for a home game, for sure... I was thinking of this character for PFC.
and in all honesty if I was going to play a pathfinder home game I would use a different world, the pathfinder world feels a little too "patchwork" for me. (if that makes any sense)
Okay, time to make a deity of practical jokes and a few other concepts who is Chaotic Good with the Trickery domain!!
It's a shame she's a deity only for halflings.
It's a shame she's a deity only for halflings.
yeppers!
Adopted trait, halflings. Bam, you worship her.
Heck, given the way halflings are treated in the Inner Sea region, having a "holy slayer" or two would even make some sense.