Light armor is not that big of a deal is you have the dex. I do not have much dex, a point I've been trying to hammer in since the very first session. And yes, classes with light armor can survive in the front line if they've built for it. But like you said, the AP called for more social than combat, it called for normal human races rather than tieflings and androids. I'm one of the only players who built their character after the suggestions of the AP guidelines.
So why do I feel like I'm the only one suffering because of his choices made during character creation?
You do not have much dex, this is true. Have you fought defensively? Have you used Combat Expertise even once? I believe the answer to both of these is no.
I have also stated from the beginning that you should not create a purely social character without combat abilities.
The AP did not specifically call for human races. It stated that the more non-human the race the more you may have problems. And I stated the solution: disguise. Those who are taking non-human races have been focusing on disguise to make up for it. It is a reasonable trade-off.
In any case, I feel this discussion is not serving us well and I would like to not cause ill will between us. Especially since we play together in the monday campaign. You have made your choice and I respect it. I will see you monday. :)
- Gauss
I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I'm trying to make you understand why I have been playing a concept for four sessions and haven't enjoyed him once, despite the fact that I love the concept.
The first two sessions ALL I EVER DID was fight defensively with the addition of combat expertise, which I only picked up because I wanted improved feint. And out of 10 swings, I landed 2. Two hits out of ten, and those two hits were lucky rolls, meanwhile all the people I was in melee with needed was ONE lucky roll and I would have dropped (just like I did during the beginning of the last encounter). No offence, but I didn't make a ninja just so I can occupy a square and delay long enough to get a lucky roll while hoping the enemies around me don't get a lucky roll first.
So basically my choices were either stand there with a high ac and never hit anything, or die.
Ahhh I must have missed that you had. My apologies.
- Gauss
Don't apologize, I don't really care about who is right and who is wrong in this case; there's no point in portioning blame. Besides, it's my lack of HP more than my AC that I worry about.
I just want to make it clear, I've been trying my damndest to make this concept work, but without a designated tank to flank with, or the addition of dark vision to allow me to use my stealth skill with any effectiveness, playing a ninja or rogue concept is just wasting the player slot. For what it's worth, I like the AP. I'd be willing to play in it again if there was a proper party build. Like I said before, I would recreate my ninja as the front line fighter no one else seems willing to create, but I'm already doing that in the Monday game, and besides I don't imagine you'd be willing to let me remake my ninja now that we've progressed this far with the AP.
Hey now, there's no need to diss on the rest of the party if you don't like your character. You knew what the party make up was when we started.
Are potions of enlarge person 50g or 250g? they're list online as 250g but they are 1st level spells... that is confusing to my brain.
Enlarge person is 50gp unless they are caster level 5, then they are 250gp.
What source lists them as 250?
- Gauss
20pfsrd does: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/potions
And that is the problem with D20PFSRD. It is not official. Trying to use it as if it were will lead to occasional problems. Note: I think the D20PFSRD is freaking awesome and use it constantly...as an initial reference. But then I always doublecheck my information.
- Gauss
I've been trying to find out, but is it possible to edit the entries? Is it wiki-style or do you have to message someone for corrections?
I believe there is a group of people who edit it. I forget who does so.
- Gauss
Any word from Axolmotl?
Yes, she apologized profusely and has been in contact with me on Skype. She is continuing to play.
- Gauss
So the party is now:
Tiefling Cleric (Me)
Human Ranger (Khantin)
Orc Witch (Watcher)
Android Monk (Axolmotl)
Something Barbarian/anti-paladin? (?)
He is an Aasimar Anti-Paladin. His character is posted in his profile in the game if you are interested.
It looks like you will have plenty of martial power now. :D
- Gauss
20pfsrd does: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/potions
I do have the authority to edit d20pfsrd so I can fix most errors. I should be around more so feel free to let me know about them.
Found another thing that d20pfsrd needs to fix, if you can take a look.
The page for Create Undead lists Shadow as an option under Create Greater undead.
The link should link to the Shadow's beastiary listing over here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/shadow
Instead, it links to the Illusion subschool Shadow over here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-lllusion-Shadow
Thanks. I did not see this post. I will check it out.
It seems someone already fixed it. :)
theres an error on the advanced naval combat page under the ramming section of attacks. The paragraph ends mid sentence and then resumes mid sentence in the middle of a paragraph a little later on.
Thanks Khantin. I will look at it.
Since Gauss said we could make up our own sign language. I was going to put a rank in linguistics at this level. Is everyone else willing to do it?
I am putting a point into linguistics for the group language.
Just a note:
Since using your hands is more complex than using your mouth I will also state that anything above a few words or concepts like 'attack him' will be a move action.
Otherwise, yes, you may have quiet conversations this way.
- Gauss
I am also doing so. I'm also going to start focusing on Bluff and lying for my face skill, but I'll help out Okrin as needed with the rest.
I'm also putting a point in Linguistics for that group language, and yea if you want to be the bluff guy, I can pretty much automatically buff your roll. And then I'll keep taking the rest.
theres an error on the advanced naval combat page under the ramming section of attacks. The paragraph ends mid sentence and then resumes mid sentence in the middle of a paragraph a little later on.
If fixed that page.
Since so much information was dropped tonight I am going to summarize some of it. Forgive me if I forget some.
Setup:
1) The Army will be in position and ready to attack 2weeks after you left it.
2) The attack needs to occur within about a month after you left it. Any delay runs the risk of desertions and other problems.
3) The following are the major people that you have identified in Balentyne:
Lord Thomas Havelyn (depressed)
Captain Zack Eddarly (cheating with Captain Mott's wife, expected to duel Captain Mott)
Captain Franz Mott (Husband, expected to duel Captain Eddarly)
Captain Varning (out on patrol, you dont know where he went. He Left on 'day 5')
Mad Martin (keeper of the bird rookery)
Tacitus (mage)
Ice Golem
Lantern Archons (enough to form a Gestalt)
Father Donnagin (banished or demoted, since disproven)
Barnabus Eisenbach (dwarven engineer, you drank with him)
4) Other parties of interest:
100 soldiers (approx)
10 Dwarven engineers
Mama Guisseppe (cooks a batch of food for the men every Monday)
various un-named servants
Rookery: Used as messenger birds
5) Elements of the Keep:
Gatehouse with 2 Ballistae, 2 small rock throwers, murderholes, and 'burning sand'. The Dwarven Engineers are working on this.
Aldencross Gate (22): Leads to Aldencross. Has a Portcullis and reinforced door.
Seal of Balentyne (23a, over 8a): Seals the servant's entrance (8a). Note: from the plans you acquired there is only one way to travel from Level 1 to Level 2 without going outside first, a couple holes in the ceiling (rooms 10 and 14. If 8a is blocked off it effectively traps invaders in level 1. I did not make this clear earlier.
--------
I think that is most of the information. If you would like further information that I have not included here or reminders feel free to ask.
--------
Also: If you have borrowed money from the group fund please make a note in the group fund that you have done so. This way I can see it as well.
- Gauss
This is kind of what I've been thinking for what we should do, any thoughts or tweeks on it would be greatly appreciated.
1. Mad Martin - Spider climb + Invisibility, climb up there. Bash him up with blunt weapons only and the throw him off the rookery, spread a rumor that he thought he could fly or something and jumped off.
2. Lord Thomas - Figure out where his bedroom is, sneak in as a servants late at night when he's asleep. Either stage a suicide or poison him up good. If we go with a suicide we can write a super scribbly letter, few tear marks, use his signet on the bottom. Could pass.
3. Lanterns - Go up as dwarfs, maybe at night, say we forgot some work. Bash them up one at a time when the guards aren't around. Could also use this time to sabotage the shield wall gears. Could also sabotage some war machines or the chains for the drawbridge.
4. Captain on patrol - Hunt him down, good ol' fashion forest murder.
5. Priest - We might be able to go there and convince him to try and get his old job back, or kill him and burn the temple down. Accidents happen you know.
6. Tacticus - Looking at my sketchily drawn map I'm thinking that secret passage goes to the basement room, which leads up the wizard's tower. Try to take him and his golem out.
7. Dwarves - Poison the ale kegs.
Well that's what I have so far anyway.
We'd be pretty tall dwarves, since Disguise Self can only make the illusion 1 foot taller or shorter.
For the priest, we may we able to slip an "unsavory" holy symbol or something onto his person. It's a LG town, and no one suspects us of anything, so who knows where it'd come from? It'd be simple and not shenanigans enough to at least try (especially with an invisible, flying party member).
For the golem, there's an item in UE that allows detection of golems within 60 feet as a standard action, and bypasses all of their DR. It's 2500 GP, with craft requirements of detect magic and being 10th level. If we can find a Golembane Scarab, I imagine it would help. Give it to Shooty Damage or Swordy Damage, and let 'em go nuts.
And as bad as I feel about poisoning dorfs, that'd be a good way to do it. What with racial con and a built-in poison resistance, it would have to be pretty strong stuff, though. All we've found so far is arsenic, with its fantastic 13 save. Maybe we could find something when we're out murderhunting, though? /shrug
A golembane scarab would be a DC 18 for me to create, just in range of taking ten. It'd take three days to make for 1,250 (actually, 2500 since it will likely go to Remi, Okrin, or Zomert). I'd say it would probably be a worthwhile investment.
I did have a thought on Mad Martin. He is one we definitely need to eliminate before the bugbears arrive, so that the keep is not forewarned and can't let out a call for aid.
The two people I think we will have the most trouble with are the priest and Tacitus, as one can easily detect the evil aura from Okrin and I and the other could possibly see through our disguises. I think it might be worthwhile to find out why the priest was banished here.
The archons will cause trouble simply because they have a lot of DR and will hard to kill both quickly and quietly.
We could also try to forge a document dismissing the dwarves? Maybe use the seal of one of the captains?
On another note regarding the golem, we could just get a Slaying arrow. It's the same price essentially, but we could do 50 damage to it right off the bat. Also, an adamantine weapon would cost 3000 (500 more) and would be more useful down the road.
Reminder: based on the knowledge check you guys made the golem's DR is relatively low. It might pose a problem for the Archer's arrows but not much of a problem for the Anti-paladin's greatsword.
- Gauss
For the pretending to be dwarves, we can get a few potions of alter self. Get a couple minutes getting into position then hoping our ridiculous disguise skills can trick people into thinking we're just "working" on the archons. And they're called stone saints, maybe people think they're just fancy gargoyles or something? And my smite good allows me to bypass DR, I only have it a couple times a day though. Alternate, albeit completely crazy, plan. Let them combine together, then we just have one target. A large, smashy target. Also might raise a few eyebrows.
But for the priest. We could plant Asmodeus paraphernalia, and drop off another letter to a guard captain or something. He would at least be out of commission while he's on trial, hopefully. What could really seal the deal is that we write up a contract like the kind we got, sign his name at the bottom and put it in his personal possessions. But we all have garbage linguistics, so we might have to hire a rogue or less then perfect scribe to forge it. It is a big adventuring town, there should be at least a couple rogues, hopefully.
Just a note: You guys can gather more information on any of these rumors. The rumors are a starting point, not the whole story.
Also, you cannot make potions out of personal spells.
- Gauss
holy ideas batman. Whatever we end up doing, we should carry out our missions in order of least chance of discovery to most, where time permitting. Forest ambush of the patrol is pretty safe I think. Assassinating the wizard in his tower is pretty risky. Anything to do with the lantern archons is pretty chancy too imo.
We still need to gather far more information about their leaders. Especially the lord and any unnamed captains we havent heard about.
If anyone wishes to gather additional information about any of the existing rumors or people we can deal with that here, it may cut down on the time spent resolving it at the table.
- Gauss
Agreed Khantin, I think that taking out the patrol should be the priority. Staging the suicide of the raven master also seems like it could be useful and not too risky.
I think we should hold of on the archons and the wizard until we actually attack as they are the two that could really cause trouble and raise the alarm.
@Gauss
Cain will try and find more information on why the priest is here and what happened to cause his disgrace. Maybe keep an eye out for any forgers/unscrupulous scribes?
I feel like someone should sneak into the castle as a soldier, just to sabotage the gears on the shield wall, maybe even the draw bridge if they can swing it. Those are some pretty important things, since our main goal is to let the bugbears through and if either of those activate, we're completely s@~~ outa luck. Maybe if we disguise ourselves as the guard captain that's in the woods, after we kill him, we could actually take control of the troops. I mean who knows their captain really well. I have a +19 to my disguise, 29 if I can use my disguise self spell with that. I could easily command the troops with that. Hopefully not rolling a 1 on my diplomacy. I think making myself, or whoever into the captain would actually solve a hefty amount of problems.
Exrit, you already have the Disguise Self spell (item) on you. Your Alter Self spell will not last very long and while neither Alter Self nor Disguise Self list a bonus type, I am declaring them incompatible. You will have a +19, not +29.
Also, disguising yourself as a Captain probably means interacting with people who know him very well. At the very least that is a +4 but could be up to a +8.
There may be other factors working against you as well. For example: anyone interacting with you gets a Will save to notice the illusion. Without the illusion your disguise is only +9.
- Gauss
I thought about going after the gears for the shield, but none of us have disable device, that I know of anyway. With the country being LG finding a rogue willing to help might be difficult, but we could gather information on any current adventurers in town to see if there are any that are more about money, than doing the right thing.
I don't like the disguise ideas for reasons already mentioned.
Dismissing the dwarves could work if we could find out who is capable of such an authorization. I guess we could do a gather information on that. I would word it as "Who signs offs/decides on work done to the keep?" or something similar.
Finding out about the disgraced priest is also a good idea. We still have a decent amount of time to make this work.
Down Comforter has a good point. The adamantine weapon is more likely to be useful than the scarab. Finding such a weapon is the issue however. Hopefully we dont have to get it made. That would take forever.
I was planning on getting an adamantine weapon actually. But I Don't think that will be for a while, since it's double the price of what we can buy in this town. So I might have to wait a bit.
Also we really need to liquor up some soldiers and get some information about the ins and outs of that castle. And when we kill the captain in the woods. We could take the soldiers clothing, at least we can wander without too many questions hopefully then. Also we might be able to get more information dressed as guards? That actually might be handy.
For the archons, Down Comforter could use the Align Weapon spell, either on Khantin or myself. I can tear through them like tissue paper, but if they're allowed to fly away then a guy with a bow and a lot of attacks would be infinitely more useful. And I can still damage them a little bit on the ground in that case.
This is kind of a long shot, but if you disguise yourself as a wizard who created a golem, can you trick that golem into doing your bidding? Since they are controlled through audio commands and you have to be seen. IF that can work, we can maybe send it up to attack the barracks. People blame the wizard, he gets executioned up good, also lots of guards are dead.
Exrit: 'Double the price' does not mean it is unavailable. :) There is a list of items that are available beyond the 1400gp limit and that list changes regularly.
Also, there are some very inexpensive adamantine weapons: Ammunition.
- Gauss
Ive been looking over some of your character sheets. I cannot figure out where some of you have spent your money. A couple of you seem to be short.
Others have some rather messy sheets which I cannot make heads or tails of.
Before Wednesdays game I ask the following:
1) Please group magic items in your equipment list. It saves me from hunting them down if I want to glance at your list to see what you have.
2) If you have lent or borrowed money please list that on your character sheet. It counts as 'value'. This way I dont hunt for why you have a significantly different number than I expect. :)
Note: I dont expect micromanagement regarding treasure on your sheets, but from time to time I do look at major equipment and do an estimate.
3) A couple of you have not updated your spells section (number of spells, generally memorized spells, etc) to your level 4 abilities on your character sheets. Please do so. I know you are probably using the journal entry as the main source for your spells but I like to be able to see it in the actual character sheet as well. The witch should have noted down all the spells he currently knows.
If you have questions regarding your sheet feel free to ask here or PM me on it.
One other note: Roll20 is about to change it's forum system. The Campaign Page will work like a forum instead of the wonky message system that is in place currently. Even allows for multiple threads on the campaign page.
- Gauss
Please have your level 5 character sheets ready next week. Note: you have NOT leveled yet.
- Gauss
Hey Gauss, are we going to get that treasure list?
Yeah, sorry about that. I havent been feeling well the last couple days. I will get both the monday and wednesday campaign treasures worked on in a few min.
- Gauss
Could everyone check out the treasure list on Roll20 so we know how much everyone is getting?
Down Comforter, you are getting 7045.17gp How much of the existing treasure you wish to buy is up to you.
I have bolded the line where it states the amount everyone gets. :)
- Gauss