All,
It seems to me that a bonded item is a massive risk. Its cool to have but if taken, the downside is atrocious.
Familiars can get killed, but I think they have no real down sides when they are dead. But if I only have a few Wizard levels on a multiclassed character, wont it be tedious to keep them alive?
Is there a Familiar Pocket spell in Pathfinder? Can I simply not summon a familiar? Is there any legal way to trade out a familiar without having to takea feat or trait hit? And preferably without archetypes?
Thanks.
If you're not actively using the familiar to make touch attacks to deliver spells, I find most enemies just ignore the familiar, so keeping them alive hasn't been a problem.
One perk to having a familiar is that it comes with a nice bonus like +2 to a save or +4 initiative.
If you really don't want a familiar or a bonded item, you're going to have to check out the wizard archetypes. The arcane bond is a standard class feature; if you don't want it, an archetype to trade it away is your only option short of avoiding the class entirely.
But I'm pretty sure you won't find a way to be a Wizard, not get a familiar, not get an arcane bond, not take an archetype, and not spend a feat or trait. Sheesh, with a list of restrictions that long, I'm not sure what sort of answer you're expecting; you're asking for a way to do something without doing anything at all.
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Familiar is by far the superior option for a wizard. Bonded Object gives you one spell slot at your highest level each day. Woohoo >.> . Meanwhile, a familiar gives you all sorts of utility and most importantly, allows you to break the action economy of the game. If you aren't going with a Improved Familiar, Greensting Scorpion gives you a +4 Initiative Bonus, which is the equivalence of a feat, if it is within arm's reach. If you're worried, keep your familiar in your backpack and it's safe from most harm.
I disagree. the bonded object allows you to basically 'be batman'. Because wizards can scribe so many spells in their spellbook, it allows you, once per day, to have the absolute perfect answer to a threat.
You can cast any lower level spell out of that spell slow, basically meaning that any spell in your book, you can cast. The utility there is staggering.
Surprise ice dragon? Communal resist energy: cold and your party is safe.
Flying enemy but out of flight spells? Use your bonded object, make your party fighter fly, and they'll slaughter whatever it is.
etc etc
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I've found the bonded item option to be fantastic. The ability to pull any spell in your book out of your arse when you most need it should not be underestimated, especially the higher level of spells you get.
Having an initiative boost is nice, but being able to say "Oh, we're going to have a showdown with a bunch of fire elementals? Let me just whip out this communal resist/protection from fire that I didn't even prepare today."
I've been loving it in PFS, meanwhile I keep seeing familiars get splattered by AoO's when they try to enter a target's square to deliver a touch spell. YMMV.
Since a familiar has half of your character's hit points, multiclassing actually makes them physically tougher in most cases. Throw in that improved evasion, and they can withstand spell attacks about as well as your character can.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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- the ability to enhance the bonded object w/o requiring the crafting feats for that object (and there are many objects that offer specific benefits to wizards of specific schools if they choose that object as a bonded object). This isn't always used by many folks - but this is for PFS play the only way to do any crafting
Ha, forgot about this part. I really enjoyed my 5,000gp discount for my amulet of spell cunning!
Am I the only person who actually likes the bonded item option? I keep hearing a lot of people complain about what happens if the item is lost, but seriously...how often does one lose a magical item? Sure, it *could* happen, but what's more likely? Losing your bonded item, or being in a situation where being able to cast any spell from your spellbook without preparing it would be useful?
Am I the only person who actually likes the bonded item option? I keep hearing a lot of people complain about what happens if the item is lost, but seriously...how often does one lose a magical item? Sure, it *could* happen, but what's more likely? Losing your bonded item, or being in a situation where being able to cast any spell from your spellbook without preparing it would be useful?
Especially since the most likely reason for losing your bonded object is a "you are captured and all your stuff is taken" scenario... in which case you have the far more crippling problem of also losing your spellbook.
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The problem I think stems from people using familiars to do something that they can't really do. At low levels, using your familiar to deliver a touch attack is probably going to wind up being a poor choice of action economy. Let that sucker stick by you and give you those bonuses.
Improved Familiar at level 7 is where things get really good. Pseudodragons, Imps, Lyrakien Azatas are incredibly powerful. Giving a Lyrakien Azata or an Imp a powerful wand can grant you an incredible amount of action economy.
As a multiclass character your perspective will shift slightly.
A familiar will get half your hitpoints, even if they don't come from wizard levels, but your access to improved familiar will be lower, and your familiars abilities will be less due to your lower Wizard level.
The bonded object will help balance out your fewer spell slots by opening up your entire book for emergencies. But if you lose the item, the concentration checks will be non-trivial.
All in all i think a carefully chosen familiar will benefit a multiclass character more than a bonded item. Keeping the creature close will also let you benefit from the bonus it provides.
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Am I the only person who actually likes the bonded item option? I keep hearing a lot of people complain about what happens if the item is lost, but seriously...how often does one lose a magical item? Sure, it *could* happen, but what's more likely? Losing your bonded item, or being in a situation where being able to cast any spell from your spellbook without preparing it would be useful?Especially since the most likely reason for losing your bonded object is a "you are captured and all your stuff is taken" scenario... in which case you have the far more crippling problem of also losing your spellbook.
Let me tell you a story:
Psuedodragons have 5 feet of reach with their tail.
But yeah, for a wizard, the bonded item is nice. For anyone that doesn't have to prepare spells (and I hate preparing spells), the familiar is way better.
Can I take the Familiar option but just not actually have one?
You could leave it far behind...
So, uh, what's the big phobia here with having an arcane bond, anyhow? Did something just happen in your campaign where your GM just took away the cleric's holy symbols, killed the druid's animal companion, permanently destroyed the summoner's eidolon, and fed the paladin's mount to some kobolds?
Why would you want to? Familiars are awesome.
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Can I take the Familiar option but just not actually have one?
Reasonable GM will say yes. In case you have unreasonable one, just select pig familiar and invest one of your starting skill ranks in Profession [chef]. You will make good initial impression on your party (maybe except druid, ranger will never now that it was your familiar in the first place).
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So, uh, what's the big phobia here with having an arcane bond, anyhow? Did something just happen in your campaign where your GM just took away the cleric's holy symbols, killed the druid's animal companion, permanently destroyed the summoner's eidolon, and fed the paladin's mount to some kobolds?
Well, see my above story, but generally speaking, losing an arcane bonded item sucks. As a GM, the very first thing that intelligent bad guys do when fighting the party in my games is take out the wizard's bonded item if they can find it. Because it completely screws the wizard and the 1st step in killing the party is screwing the wizard. Not to mention, it's typically easy to do.
How can they tell what the bonded item is?
Why would you do that? There's no penalty for losing a familiar, and you get pretty good benefits from having one.Can I take the Familiar option but just not actually have one?
While this is true, you do lose out on Alertness and whatever bonus your familiar gives, not to mention it costs a bit to replace.
How can they tell what the bonded item is?
At low levels I suppose they'd just detect magic, but once the wizard has more magical gear....well, I guess they'd start by sundering any martial weapons that the wizard is wielding, just in case.
Me, I'd start carrying around a +1 greatsword in battle just for the lulz.
"Aha! I've destroyed your bonded weapon, meddling Wizard!"
"What, that cheap thing?" *shrug* *Disintegrate*
I'm wearing a magical amulet and two magic rings, and waving a magic weapon. Good luck targeting the real bonded object.
But note that I just said "arcane bond", not "bonded object". For some reason, the OP is terrified of having a familiar, and... I don't get it.
While this is true, you do lose out on Alertness and whatever bonus your familiar gives, not to mention it costs a bit to replace.
So how is maybe needing to pay if you want to restore those features if you do lose them worse than never ever seeing those features at all?
It's like saying you'd rather be a Warrior than a Paladin because as a Paladin you might fall and then you'd just be a Warrior anyhow.
I just dont like familiars.
Also in this case I was thinking of an Eldritch Knight build, and so I wont have lots of Wizard levels.
As for why I dont like familiars, its just a thematic dislike mainly. I like it for the witch tho.
Rings make good bonded items.
That said there is a trait that lets you take over your familiars body.
Imp familiar with ALL of your spells and saves and all of its abilities (especially if you have it put on your rings, amulets etc) and you've got something pretty damn good. Cast shrink on your body while its at rest and stuff it in a box etc.
Flip side being, familiar dies? You die.
What's that trait?
Well, see my above story, but generally speaking, losing an arcane bonded item sucks. As a GM, the very first thing that intelligent bad guys do when fighting the party in my games is take out the wizard's bonded item if they can find it. Because it completely screws the wizard and the 1st step in killing the party is screwing the wizard. Not to mention, it's typically easy to do.
Your GM sounds like a metagaming dick. I hope he's not actually one, but damn.
How can enemies tell what item is your bonded item? Actually, how can they tell you have a bonded item at all? You could be any kind of spellcaster for all they know--even if they see your spellbook, you still might be a Magus. Even if they know for a fact that you're a wizard, you might have a familiar tucked away or invisible or at home.
There's just no way to go after a wizard's bonded item on purpose without:
1) Being a metagaming dick
2) Having NPCs overhear the PC wizard talking about his bonded item (which, why would he ever do that?) or Detecting Thoughts on him specifically about that sort of thing, which is also highly unlikely.
As for being an Eldritch Knight, I assumed you'd want a bonded item weapon so you could enchant it for half price without the need for feats.
Yes.
Arcane Bond is an Exploitable weakness.
And that's fine.
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Well, see my above story, but generally speaking, losing an arcane bonded item sucks. As a GM, the very first thing that intelligent bad guys do when fighting the party in my games is take out the wizard's bonded item if they can find it. Because it completely screws the wizard and the 1st step in killing the party is screwing the wizard. Not to mention, it's typically easy to do.Your GM sounds like a metagaming dick. I hope he's not actually one, but damn.
How can enemies tell what item is your bonded item? Actually, how can they tell you have a bonded item at all? You could be any kind of spellcaster for all they know--even if they see your spellbook, you still might be a Magus. Even if they know for a fact that you're a wizard, you might have a familiar tucked away or invisible or at home.
There's just no way to go after a wizard's bonded item on purpose without:
1) Being a metagaming dick
2) Having NPCs overhear the PC wizard talking about his bonded item (which, why would he ever do that?) or Detecting Thoughts on him specifically about that sort of thing, which is also highly unlikely.
As for being an Eldritch Knight, I assumed you'd want a bonded item weapon so you could enchant it for half price without the need for feats.
Ok, let me clarify something. I do NOT mean every 1st level pickpocket and their mom is running around stealing wizards bonded items.
What I'm talking about is a sophisticated BBEG, who has the ability to do things like scry on the party, cast detect magic, good spellcraft, that kind of stuff.
In the example I provided, it was just unfortunate that the Eldritch Knight happened to make the artifact sword his bonded item. The sword was stolen because it was an artifact, not because it was a bonded item.
If you play an elf, look at the spellbinder archetype in advanced race, or petition your DM to let you take it instead of arcane bond. It won't change anything but arcane bond, and it let you slowly build a list of spell you can always cast instead of one you prepared.
Not as versatile as the bonded item, but still pretty usefull to be able to fall back on one or two spells you know you may have to cast but don't want to prepare as an EK, even if by level 4-5 you'll have on thaht list a level one and a level two spells.
Grease, True strike, Mount, Knock, wathever. You'll be able to pull it out of your bag when needed and prepare more "combat oriented" spells for your EK.
Be elven,take Spellbinder archetype. No familiar OR arcane bond. Yay! It also fits very well with Eldritch knight.
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So, uh, what's the big phobia here with having an arcane bond, anyhow? Did something just happen in your campaign where your GM just took away the cleric's holy symbols, killed the druid's animal companion, permanently destroyed the summoner's eidolon, and fed the paladin's mount to some kobolds?Well, see my above story, but generally speaking, losing an arcane bonded item sucks. As a GM, the very first thing that intelligent bad guys do when fighting the party in my games is take out the wizard's bonded item if they can find it. Because it completely screws the wizard and the 1st step in killing the party is screwing the wizard. Not to mention, it's typically easy to do.
If they can figure out what the bonded item is, odds are they can figure out to just take the spell book...
Familiars are awesome. So many people overlook the INT score of a familiar and just think of it as some small animal but they are often smarter than the party's fighter. This same thing makes them great spies. "What's that in the corner while I'm discussing my secret plans? Oh, just some rat/bird/bug/etc..." Add on your familiar knows where you are, you can scry on its location, feel its emotion, communicate with it in a language no one else can understand. Again, familiars are awesome.
Also, you can still cast spells if you lose your bonded object. Its not the end of the world. Sure its difficult but so is losing your favorite weapon as a fighter and there are a lot more rules geared towards that happening than losing your bonded object.
However, I don't know of anything that would force you to summon a familiar even if it is your class feature. Or just leave it at home like others have said.
Be elven,take Spellbinder archetype. No familiar OR arcane bond. Yay! It also fits very well with Eldritch knight.
The OP doesn't want to take any archetypes or spend any feats.
I'm uh not really sure what options that leaves but there you go.
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I've found the bonded item option to be fantastic. The ability to pull any spell in your book out of your arse when you most need it should not be underestimated, especially the higher level of spells you get.
Having an initiative boost is nice, but being able to say "Oh, we're going to have a showdown with a bunch of fire elementals? Let me just whip out this communal resist/protection from fire that I didn't even prepare today."
I've been loving it in PFS, meanwhile I keep seeing familiars get splattered by AoO's when they try to enter a target's square to deliver a touch spell. YMMV.
If that is your arguement for taking a Bonded Object, you might as well play a half elf sorcerer. Paragon Surge gives greater versatility without the liability of being forced into concentration checks if you lose your bonded item.
Personally, I go with a greensting scorpion and have it hide in my bag. No figure on the table and no line of effect for offensive spells. As I side benefit, I feel sorry for any rogues that inappropriatly touch my stuff.
Familiar Satchel: 25gp, 6lbs and protects your familiar.
This armored case provides total cover to any Tiny or smaller creature contained within it. It includes air holes (which can be plugged with cork stoppers if you need to go underwater) and two receptacles for food and water.
- Gauss
Roberta,
The main reason I didnt want any archetypes is that they tend to meddle with other stuff I want to keep, such as scribe scroll or college/spell access. I will check out the elven archetype for wizard. I really was thinking to make a dwarven EK who focuses on Archery, but I will look at the elf.
Cheapy ... Thanks for the recommendation.
Gauss ... That isnt from Pathfinder is it? We dont use any 3.x stuff.
Thanks to everyone else for the replies too.
Hosteling enchantment? Where is that from?
This is the one time that I think an armored kilt would actually fit, especially with a dwarven EK.