One of the Ultimate Combat feats dragon style gives a significant boost to charging and I was wondering who would need to take it to apply it to a mounted charge, the rider or the intelligence 3 (so he can take normal feats) mount with all the pre-req's?
Obviously, if the mount has the feat, then the mount can charge through the difficult terrain despite the rider not also having the feat. The rider is only so much baggage.
However, if (only) the mount has the feat, then the MOUNT's attack (if any) at the end of the charge movement gets the damage benefit and then only if it qualifies (is an unarmed strike rather than a bite or a hoof or a gore or whatever). The rider does not get this benefit for his attack without having the feat himself.
I utilized this on my t rex riding cavalier (human w/ eye for talent for 4 int). all the prereqs and all. its a damn handy ability to have as a lance wielding cavalier that kinda depends on the mount for damage.
to make sure I'm clear, the mount is required to take the feat in order to get the charging benefits.
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Really?
An unarmed strike is just a smack with part of your body.
If you have a body, you can hit people with it.
It's not all super kung-fu moves.
Hell, slap a few Monk levels on an Id Ooze if you want.
Check out the Toad.
It has no choice but to make unarmed strikes to attack.
no reason why it couldn't take weapon focus for whatever natural weapon it's using and take feral combat training, right? best of both worlds
That wold be interesting, but if that would be true then why monks can not flurry with a claw? Natural attacks =/= unarmeds strikes
monks cannot flurry with a claw, because claws are not monk weapons.
Natural attacks and unarmed strikes are different things. What you're missing, is that things with natural attacks CAN use unarmed strikes, its simply rarely optimal to do so. So rarely does it come up.
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Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.
An unarmed character can't take attacks of opportunity (but see “Armed” Unarmed Attacks, below).
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity).
Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character's unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of bludgeoning damage, while a Large character's unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.
zomg there's an actual section clarifying what unarmed attacks are!
The difference between at base a unarmed monster and one with natural attacks, revolves around the mechanics of attacks of opportunity mostly.
A little further down
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat). The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.
Damage
A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike.
A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage.
Quoted the PRD for ya, Nicos. as animals are characters (characters of the non-player variety, or NPCs), a medium animal deals 1d3 nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. So the horse who tries to headbutt you? 1d3 nonlethal.
edit: and by the way, before beating anyone over the head for a quote, try running a quick search yourself. i threw 'unarmed strike' in the PRD search engine, this was the first link.
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as an aside, took all of 5 seconds with a search in PRD for "unarmed attack" to find the relevant stuff.
As an aside
Improved Unarmed Strike (Combat)
You are skilled at fighting while unarmed.
Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed—you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attack foes while unarmed. Your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your choice.
Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.
You could take improved unarmed strike even if you were incapable of having unarmed strikes... because there is no pre-req.
high five, lantzkev.
i would think anything with (the equivalent of) a knee or elbow could hit you with it, even if it wasn't listed under its natural attacks.
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So, when a horsehead-butts you, the world breaks?
No, every single creature with a physical body can make an unarmed strike.
They don't even need a feat.
Even the idea of creatures with physical bodies not being able to make unarmed strikes is illogical.
Slap a muzzle on a Camel, and it can still hurt you.
What kind of attack can it make?
They call it an "unarmed strike".
"Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using."
is a mount capable of doing unarmed strikes?
I've been head butted by a horse, so yes.
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as an aside, took all of 5 seconds with a search in PRD for "unarmed attack" to find the relevant stuff.
As an aside
You could take improved unarmed strike even if you were incapable of having unarmed strikes... because there is no pre-req.Improved Unarmed Strike (Combat)
You are skilled at fighting while unarmed.
Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed—you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you attack foes while unarmed. Your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your choice.
Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.not exxactly
"Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using.""
So how do you determine if a animal is capable of using a feat? Do we look at the animal entry? or do we look to see if it meets the pre-reqs of the feat... I know which makes the most sense to me (and I'm going to guess 99.99% of the readers as well)
We've already assumed the animal has a intelligence of 3 or greater... so what was the point again?
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i would like to thank everyone in this thread for spurring my imagination for finally deciding what feats my large cat animal companion on my PFS sylvan sorcerer will take:
Power attack
weapon focus: claws
improved unarmed strike
feral combat training: claws
dragon style
stunning fist
dragon ferocity
i just giggle now thinking of a pounce with 4 claws(rake) doing 1d6+22+2d6+(2d6 if evil)** each, with maybe a stun thrown in for good measure :) not to mention the lesser bite(because it doesn't qualify for the unarmed strike feats)
**(has a vicious holy AoMF)
So how do you determine if a animal is capable of using a feat? Do we look at the animal entry? or do we look to see if it meets the pre-reqs of the feat... I know which makes the most sense to me (and I'm going to guess 99.99% of the readers as well)
You have to look at the animal in question's physical form. A fish could take feats that involve swimming, but probably not climbing. Few animals could take feats that involve speaking (ravens and parrots come to mind). Unless you have a way to repeatedly cast fly on your critter or it can already fly naturally/magically, flying skill and feats might not be possible. Etc.
Ask your GM.