Constant Detect Evil / Good


Rules Questions


Hey guys and gals, I would like to discuss constant spell-like abilities and detection spells like detect evil. There is currently a sprite in the party that has constant detect evil and good. He believes that as a free action, once per round he may activate it and detect evil in a 60 ft cone and gaining the effects of the first part (1st Round: Presence or absence of evil). He also believes that he should be allowed to do detect evil and detect good in the same round as they are both should be treated as free actions.
Another player believes that he must first concentrate on that area to gain the effect. In essense requiring a move action to start its round 1 effects.
I would like hear muiltiple people's thoughs on this, even if it's a
just to agree with a previous poster.

1) Do you believe he should be able to use it as a free action?
2) If yes to question 1, do you think he should be able to use detect evil and detect good on the same round as a free action?
3) If yes to question 1, does he require concentration to maintain detection into rounds 2 and 3. Or just required to stare at it as a free action.

Thanks


Seravix wrote:
1) Do you believe he should be able to use it as a free action?

No. Spell-like abilities are standard actions see Table 8-2 in the Core Rulebook.

Done.

Scarab Sages Reaper Miniatures

The PRD says Constant Spell like abilities are a different case:

Quote:
A constant spell-like ability or one that can be used at will has no use limit; unless otherwise stated, a creature can only use a constant spell-like ability on itself. Reactivating a constant spell-like ability is a swift action. Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity.

So it's a swift action, not a free action

therefore
1)no, he must use it as a Swift Action
2) No, only one swift action per round
3) must maintain concentration on subsequent rounds, exactly the same as the spell.


Activating the ability is a swift action. It is otherwise constsntly active. The way I understand it, is that he does not even need to use a free action. The DM just has to tell him if he senses evil/good. Thereafter, looking in the same direction for multiple rounds reveals more information.

If you claim he needs to concentrate and use actions, then how is constant different from At Will?

So in summary:
1) yes
2) yes
3) no

Shadow Lodge

A constant ability is always on and requires no action to activate. If it is dispelled it can be reactivated as a swift action. As Detect good/evil is only a action to keep active and not to use the ability itself (which is automatic from viewing an area) It would take no more than a free action (likely no action at all) to use each. Which are both always on and part of his senses so he could do both in any given round.


Bryan Stiltz wrote:
The PRD says Constant Spell like abilities are a different case:

That's from the Bestiary that's why I missed it. Wouldn't want all the rules in one place would we.

facepalm Doh! That's what I get for trying to beat the ninjas.

I see player 1's argument.

I'll grant that if the sprite was subject to a dispel magic he would have to re-activate detect evil and detect good on two different rounds using two different swift actions. But if it was 'constant' shouldn't it already be up?

It is curious that they chose the wording 're-active' instead of just 'activate.' Lacking any further information, I'd have to agree with Bryan.


We're talking about a sprite as a player character here?

Under the bestiary listing for Sprite it lists Detect Evil and Detect Good as "Senses" right along with the Perception bonus.

In my mind, and were I GMing this, I'd say those detections are permanent just as much as a PCs vision is permanent, i.e. it should only be taken away if something trumps it. Like a blindness spell for perception, or perhaps an antimagic field for the detect evil/good.

As the GM you'd need to say "you detect evil/good" just as soon as the PC encountered it, then, if nothing interrupts them, tell them how many auras, and then the power level and location of each aura.

My 2cp


So far it looks like a couple for swift actions and concentration for follow up rounds and a few for it always being on and free actions for everything including progressing to round 2/3.

Anyone else have any thoughts?


Knight Magenta wrote:
If you claim he needs to concentrate and use actions, then how is constant different from At Will?

At will has no use limit and is activated as a standard action.

Constant has no use limit and is re-activated as a swift action.

Scarab Sages Reaper Miniatures

In my game, I would rule that he could either detect good, or detect evil, but not both at the same time, although switching would be a swift action, as the rules would say.

I could see an argument and case made for both being always simultaneously on, but yeah, I don't think I'd go with that myself. MendedWall12's side is as valid, I think, and probably has more RAW support than my position.


Seravix wrote:
Anyone else have any thoughts?

It works exactly like the GM says it works [period]. :-P

Keeping with the political nature of the season I'm tending to flip-flop on this issue.

"Spell-Like Abilities: After listing the caster level of the creature’s spell-like abilities, this section lists all of the creature’s spell-like abilities, organized by how many times per day it can use the abilities. Constant spell-like abilities function at all times but can be dispelled. A creature can reactivate a constant spell-like ability as a swift action." (Bestiary page 6, emphasis added).

That and the fact it is often (but not always) put in the 'senses' entry in the stat block would suggest that it functions as some sort of sixth sense that doesn't require any more action than any of the sprite's other senses.

The cone nature of the spell and differing amount of information you get will always be problematic. Does the sprite not no your evil if you sneak up on him from behind. Does studying in round 2 and 3 require an action.

One possible answer would be to allow Evil[Yes/No] and Good[Yes/No] automatically with no action. But if you want the additional information you actually have to concentrate (and use a standard action).


Bear in mind, there are some locations that are so heavily corrupted/powerful that use of such detection abilities can be overwhelming for the user. Don't happen very often, but flipping on Detect evil in castle of demon-von-painlover-evillord, is probably a bad idea.


Thanks for the feedback; here are a couple thoughts from people that I found on a forum concerning constant detect magic. Just thought I would share: http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/12907/what-information-do-creatures- passively-gain-from-constant-detect-spells

"Since all of the Detect spells have a duration of Concentration, it seems to me like you have to concentrate to gain a benefit from them. If the Night Hag concentrates for 1 round, she can use any of her detect spells without having to cast it, but she doesn't get any information without concentrating. The difference here between continuous and at will is that the continuous version doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. I don't think there's a solid rule on this, but I feel like this solution fits the normal behavior of the spells best."

and

"We have always played it that you always get the first round benefits for "always on" and can choose to concentrate, getting the 2 and 3 round benefits for 1 and 2 rounds of concentration, respectively. However, "at will" is different, you get the same benefit that anyone who casts the spell would, but you can start your concentration at any time."

Scarab Sages

You can confuse them about power levels with clerics auras and neutrals and outsiders - any of which may not be obviously different to look at.

[It only detects auras of level 5 and above for normal folk (level 1 for auras of clerics, paladins and outsiders) and neutral folk are a stealth alignment.]


constant abilities are always on. in the rare case that they are turned off somehow, then it takes a swift action to turn them back on. otherwise the creature ALWAYS has a 6 foot cone of detect whatever (Azata, Lyrakien, another type of improved familiar, have constant detect magic and detect evil).

If they happen to have those detects trigger by looking in the general area within 60 feet of one of those types, they can then concentrate as per the spell to get more specific information. i would also say that they know which ability was triggered, so in the case of a 'trigger' event happening they would know if the evil sense triggered or the good sense triggered, the same as a human can tell if he is noticing something with his eyes or ears.

remember these are normal senses to these creatures, and they constantly live their lives with them, just like we do with our own 5 senses. they would be very good at using them.

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