Building a Rogue...

[Shenron]

So, after playing an Archer, a Cleric, and in my current campaign a Gunslinger.

Well, my GM said he was going to restart our original campaign and I figured it was time to get back to my roots and play a Rogue, I am kind of a Rogue at heart.

So, I have this idea of a Guild member that due to whatever reasons, decided to go adventuring.

I have already decided I am going to use the Cutpurse Archtype. My starting feat is going to be Improved Feint.

Where I am having issues is with is Race Choice. I have narrowed it down to two options;

Option 1: Tiefling - I like them for the use of their Darkness spell like ability (which mixed in with sneak attack gets kinda crazy) plus their other racial abilities are nice. Plus, my second feat option would be Armor of the Pit, because it is just sweet!

Option 2: Fetchling - Well, I really like them. There racial abilities really compliment the thief type and are a lot more useful in different situations then the darkness trick. Plus, their Shadowcloy is amazing and helps cause dim lighting for one target for one round.

Anyway, I really like them both. I need help deciding. Please list reasons why for your answers.

[BltzKrg242]

Would love to help but not familiar with either:( Sorry.
We only use the Core rules races ...
Use the race that best fits your mental image of the character.

[blackbloodtroll]

Option 1: Tiefling, Thug archetype, pick up Improved Unarmed Strike, Enforcer, Nightmare Fist, and Nightmare Weaver feats.

[TGMaxMaxer]

What BBT said, and I would use unarmed fighter dip or MoMS dip to pick up said Imp unarmed strike and also grab the Kirin style that lets you add int to damage after a knowledge check on the target.

[blackbloodtroll]

Later, pick up some Brawling armor. The Prolong Magic trait is a good choice.

Later feats could include Sap Adept, Sap Master, and Shatter Defenses.

[Hayato Ken]

How can you take improved feint as a starting feat?
Not human rogues get only one feat and beofer improved whatever comes combat expertise.

[blackbloodtroll]

Not sure about the Feint thing either.

[Shenron]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Option 1: Tiefling, Thug archetype, pick up Improved Unarmed Strike, Enforcer, Nightmare Fist, and Nightmare Weaver feats.

This looks interesting. What feat should I pick up first? Where is the Thug archtype?

Ya, improved feint at first feat was a goof.

[Shenron]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Later, pick up some Brawling armor. The Prolong Magic trait is a good choice.

Later feats could include Sap Adept, Sap Master, and Shatter Defenses.

Where is brawling armor?

[blackbloodtroll]

Enforcer first, and pick up a Sap, until you get Improved Unarmed Strike.

Brawling is an armor enchantment in Ultimate Equipment.

[Shenron]

So...

1st Feat: Enforcer
Second Feat: Sap Adept
Third Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike

With the Thug Archtype...

This idea seams cool, but isn't 1d3 damage a little low?

[A highly regarded expert]

OMG! Haven't you heard? Rogues are teh sucky!

[sunbeam]

Shenron wrote:

So...

1st Feat: Enforcer
Second Feat: Sap Adept
Third Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike

With the Thug Archtype...

This idea seams cool, but isn't 1d3 damage a little low?

Rogues do most of their damage with sneak attack. When they can sneak attack that is.

Cool image. The Rogue is in jail, and grabs a passing guard and knocks him out by banging his head into something.

There is at least one Rogue Talent that gives you a sneak attack with a concealed weapon. I wonder if an unarmed strike would qualify.

[Shenron]

Here is what I think that might make more sense...Give me more options...

1st Level Feat: Combat Expertise
Combat Trick Feat: Improved Feint
3rd Level Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike
5th Level Feat: Sap Adept
7th Level Feat: Enforcer
9th Level Feat: Sap Mastery

[blackbloodtroll]

You will be able to pump unarmed strike damage.

To get started:
First level, Enforcer.
Second level, Rogue Talent(Improved Unarmed Strike).
Third level, Nightmare Fist.

[Caderyn]

Dont rely purely on sneak attack or you will occasionally be unable to contribute (and yes you will come up against oozes, elementals and other SA immune creatures).

However at the same time the feat chain BBT is recommending is quite nice for damage (and it doesnt rely purely on SA, although SA will increase your damage).

[Shenron]

I see what you mean. I think it would be wise to go the improved feint route after this?

[blackbloodtroll]

Actually, going Nightmare Weaver into Shatter Defenses after that will work better for you than Improved Feint.

Be sure to carry a Wand of Darkness for later levels.

[Shenron]

Thinking on it, would Weapon Finesse be a better option for feat #4?

[blackbloodtroll]

Shenron wrote:

Thinking on it, would Weapon Finesse be a better option for feat #4?

Only if you plan on grabbing an Agile AoMF.

[Shenron]

whats an Agile AoMF?

I just figured I am sitting on a 20 Dex right now, so It would let me be able to hit things a lot better with my fists

[blackbloodtroll]

Amulet of Mighty Fists, with the Agile enchantment. It's 5,000 gp, and will allow you to use Dexterity, instead of Strength, for damage.

[3.5 Loyalist]

Shenron wrote:

So, after playing an Archer, a Cleric, and in my current campaign a Gunslinger.

Well, my GM said he was going to restart our original campaign and I figured it was time to get back to my roots and play a Rogue, I am kind of a Rogue at heart.

So, I have this idea of a Guild member that due to whatever reasons, decided to go adventuring.

I have already decided I am going to use the Cutpurse Archtype. My starting feat is going to be Improved Feint.

Where I am having issues is with is Race Choice. I have narrowed it down to two options;

Option 1: Tiefling - I like them for the use of their Darkness spell like ability (which mixed in with sneak attack gets kinda crazy) plus their other racial abilities are nice. Plus, my second feat option would be Armor of the Pit, because it is just sweet!

Option 2: Fetchling - Well, I really like them. There racial abilities really compliment the thief type and are a lot more useful in different situations then the darkness trick. Plus, their Shadowcloy is amazing and helps cause dim lighting for one target for one round.

Anyway, I really like them both. I need help deciding. Please list reasons why for your answers.

You will take whatever race you want to, but if you want a real challenge, don't make a combat rogue and never use two weapon sneak attacks.

Make your char a real skill master. Focus those skills. Use cunning, find solutions that don't involve violence. Be too good to resort to violence.

[Shadowlord]

I like the Fetchling race, it gets some great bonuses for any sly or stealthy character.

1) 50% miss chance in both dim light and darkness. Plus if you take the Moonlight Stalker feat chain it would become a 60% miss chance in both dim light and darkness, as well as several other great features.

2) You get low-light vision and darkvision plus you could get actual dark sight with the Fetchling feats.

3) Disguise Self once per day, and you could get more uses with the major magic rogue talent.

4) Probably the best thing in my opinion is the Shadow Walk ability they gain at 9th level. I say this because you can take the Shadow Ghost feat to gain additional uses, then take the Shadow Walker feat to use any Shadow Walk uses per day to instead use Dimension Door. Once you have the Dimension Door spell-like ability you qualify to take the Dimensional Dervish feat chain.

I think the Tiefling has some great RP possibilities. But, I would say the Fetchling has some great advantages for any stealthy, sly character.

[Shenron]

Ya, I like the fetchling race too. I have always been a fan of the Shadow Realm and what archtype do you think;

> Poisoner

or

> Cutpurse

[Shadowlord]

Shenron wrote:

Ya, I like the fetchling race too. I have always been a fan of the Shadow Realm and what archtype do you think;

> Poisoner

or

> Cutpurse

I would probably go with Poisoner.

[Shenron]

ya, I might