I'm running this character from level one up. So far she's a level two Paladin, and most of her time has been spent as a flanking buddy/target. A tank with no teeth, in other words, although since I leveled her up, she's been taking point as a combat medic as well.
The party is Gnome gunslinger, Wizard, Druid, and my Paladin. The wizard player isn't bad, but this is his first PF game, and he ends up chucking a lot of acid splashes. Our main problem is doling out damage, so I intend to make up for that when I level into Synthesist next level.
So what I need advice on is what feat to take. The original concept was for this character to be a rapid-firing archer, but that may have to get put on hold.
Here's what she looks like, sans feat, at third level:
Jonah Sunstar
Female Gnome
Str 5
Dex 10
Con 17
Int 10
Wis 15
Cha 18
Paladin 2, Summoner 1 (Synthesist)
170 gp
Scale Mail 50 15 lb
MW Backpack 50 .5 lb
Waterskin 1 1 lb (full)
Light xbow 35 2 lb
20 Bolts 2 1 lb
Light Wooden Shield 3 2.5
Pony 30
20 lbs.
Toughness
?
Traits:
Magical Knack (Summoner)
Explorer
Alternate Racial Feature: Eternal Hope.
AC: 17 (10+5 armor + 1 shield + 1small)
Touch AC: 11
HP 28 (level 2)+4(roll)+3(Con)+1(Fav Class)=36
Fort 10
Reflex 4
Will 11 (13 vs Fear, Despair, 13 vs Illusion)
Eidelon
Serpentine
Evolutions: Limbs (arms), Natural Armor bonus.
Str 12
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 15
Cha 18
AC: 10+3(Dex)+4(Natural Armor)=17, w/Shield 18
Fort: 3(Paladin)+4(Cha)+1(Con)=8
Reflex: 3(Dex)+4(Cha)=7
Will: 11 (13 vs Fear, Despair, Illusion)
HP 12
So logic says that a gunslinger, druid (w/no animal companion), and wizard need a tank that can do some damage. This makes me want to take Weapon Finesse, which would bring up her attack rolls with a rapier as well as the bite and tail slap. What's giving me pause are those 12 hit points.
Now, Mage Armor will almost certainly be one of the two spells I choose, which would bring the Eidelon's AC up to 21, or 22 if she's using the gnome's light wooden shield (there shouldn't be a penalty for that, right? It would be as if the Eidelon were using a buckler). Which is pretty good for a level three character. I'm not used to playing tanks.
But some attacks are going to get through, especially considering that the Eidelon's Touch AC will be what, 13? And there will be times when I simply can't have Mage Armor.And those 12 HP scare me.
I realize that I can use the Fused Link to siphon HP into the Eidelon, but I've never seen this in practice. Are any of you used to playing Synthesists? How often does this happen? Is it a big danger?
My other thought is to focus on damage and take Point Blank Shot, and maybe scrap the Mage Armor for some control spells to keep the baddies at bay. Like Grease.
Concept-wise, I'm going for Clash of the Titans Medusa concept, a snake body with a woman's torso and a bow. But, you know, prettier. And I would like to try to stick to that. People will probably try and talk me out of this concept. I would like to point out that all of the Eidelon base forms come packaged with a 13 Con; and that sinking two evolution points into buffing Con will only squeeze one extra hit point out of her, and a slightly better Fortitude save. The Serpentine form actually makes for the best tank (in the 'being swung at' sense), since it's the one with the best Dex, and therefore the best AC.
So, help? I'm torn between picking Weapon Finesse (to boost all of the Eidelon's melee attacks, especially if she picks up a rapier) and Point Blank shot (to build toward a ranged damage build). I could also, I suppose, take Extra Evolution and split the pool between Limbs and a Dexterity boost.
I also want advice picking out spells. If she tanks, one will certainly be Mage Armor; the other will be either Life Conduit or Rejuvenate Eidelon. Synthesist players: which has worked better in practice? I'm leaning towards Rejuv, but on the other hand this character is capable of healing herself via lay on hands as a swift action 5/day. Are they, perhaps, both a waste of time? Should I rely on the Fused Link and pass on healing the Eidelon for a level?
It's possible, too, that I could work out a strategy where, between the mage and the druid, one of them can summon a decent, level 2 spell creature to tank for us, acting as a stopgap while the gunslinger and I (as an archer) do our best to take out the threat. Unfortunately, this creates an awkward situation where the summoner player is asking the two other casters to be sure to memorize summoning spells, because the summoner will be acting more like a ranger.
Advice?
some numbers:
Bow = +6, d8 damage
One attack (Rapier, tail slap, bite)=+6, d6+1
Full attack Rapier +6 (d6+1), tail +1 (d6), bite +1(d6)
This seems to rely on a lot of numbers being rolled.
One attack (within 30'), bow=+6(+7), d8(d8+1)
Melee (Rapier, tail slap, bite) =+4, d6+1
Full attack, with a foe at 10'
Bow =+6(+7), d8(d8+1)
Bite= -1, d6
This could conceivably be the same foe.
Full melee attack
Longsword=+4, d8+1
Tail, bite=-1, d6
So the tank version is going to hit more often, but the archer is going to have better range, probably do more damage and can conceivably do some clever maneuvering to take advantage of her bite range. The strength seems too low to spend effort acquiring two-handed weapons. The Eidelon will absolutely be a dex-focused after this level.
I can't believe your group didn't just leave you behind since you were pretty much playing a paper weight for two levels. You could have started with the synth levels first and actually be decent you know.
That said since you have gone through the pain already.
You have to take rejuvenate eidolon or life conduit (pick one) since LoH doesn't heal your temp hps suit.
Also you have to take arms evolution if you want to use weapons at all. Although I think it will be better if you focus on one natural attack like bite, grab extra head evolution and reskin those as your serpent hair that bites.
This way you can nab reach evolution bite, improved natural attack bite, and grab (bite). It'll effect all your bites.
It isn't optimal but you weren't optimizing to begin with.
I... thought I was. The optimizing is, admittedly, long game.
Did you read the builds? I'm taking the limbs evolution for arms.
An the serpentine base form comes prepackaged with a reaching bite.
Extra head, reskinned as snake hair? Interesting, but I need limbs to cast spells. Each of the spells I'm consider has somatic components, as well as, I believe most of the cantrips.
My group didn't leave me behind because I can do the AC/HP part of the tank pretty well. I make it a point to get up right in the face of the bad guys and soak all the hits that would have otherwise gone to the wizard, druid, or walking cannon. I've never played a character that takes the full defence action as many times.
Also, I'm the party face.
I... thought I was. The optimizing is, admittedly, long game.
Did you read the builds? I'm taking the limbs evolution for arms.
An the serpentine base form comes prepackaged with a reaching bite.Extra head, reskinned as snake hair? Interesting, but I need limbs to cast spells. Each of the spells I'm consider has somatic components, as well as, I believe most of the cantrips.
My group didn't leave me behind because I can do the AC/HP part of the tank pretty well. I make it a point to get up right in the face of the bad guys and soak all the hits that would have otherwise gone to the wizard, druid, or walking cannon. I've never played a character that takes the full defence action as many times.
Also, I'm the party face.
I missed the arms, but I think it will be more thematic to have extra heads: evolution reskinned as snakes since you want a medusa character.
Still probably much better fighting with just natural weapons. AoMF (Agile) is probably the most important piece of gear you can pick up.
Since you have reach evolution already any additional bite attacks you get will also have reach. Also combat reflexes is a really good feat for you, you might also want to consider arcane strike to get through DR/magic.
When I optimize, the builds has to start doing what it does at level 1. It isn't optimizing when you need 15 levels of suckitude and than become a god over night, unless you are starting from 15. Even than that is really metagaming because it will be hard to explain how you survived to level 15.
Anyway your GM played nice with you, since you can't hit or do damage, I don't really see how you can hold aggro. But than I am used to very tough GMs, that don't pull punches and if anyone brings a suboptimal build that hardly contributes you can expect character deaths or maybe even TPKs.
How I hold aggro is scale mail, shield, total defense action, and 28 HP at level two. Also, optimized charisma Smite Evil provides an AC bonus against an evil target once a day. Also, 5d6 of Lay on Hands, which I can use to heal meself as a swift action. Also, optimized charisma to boost saving throws. And the ability to reroll a one on a failed save once per day.
Please stop saying that the DM holds his punches. He doesn't. In fact, I use my charisma to goad the enemies into swinging at me (and usually missing) instead of the rest of the party. It's a failure when they ignore me and take a shot at the wizard or the druid.
I'll admit she's not a super-optimized damage dealer, but she gets her shot off with a light crossbow and then protects the gunslinger while the bad guys get their heads blown off. While the druid hydraulic pushes people off a cliff. While the wizard puts them to sleep, throws magic missiles, summons eagles and dogs to harass the enemy.
We're about halfway through level 2, and so far the only character that's gone down is mine, and it was after about the fourth encounter in a day. And there were a LOT of ones rolled by the party.
As far as optimization, the character was originally built to spring into life at 14th level. When that game never materialized, I decided to try and grow her from level 1 up. I considered it a challenge. A lot of characters seem to spring into life at higher levels with questionable level progressions; I wanted to play this one straight up.
So, feat and spell selection advice, anyone?
Edited for politeness.
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Ur gm is pulling punches because when u total defense u cant perform attacks of opportunity. If u were doing that in my game id have u surrounded by a few guys and the rest going after party as u are occupied in 1 location.
on the concerns of the build u chose to classes that are best when done alone but since its ur character not mine i would say atleast get to 3rd level paladin b4 multi classing since u have so much cha. This will help ur saves a lot.
Its an interesting build but on terms of what ur doing as a tank it not all that impressive and on concerns of using a ranged weapon not realy all that practical.
If u want a good build check out the summoner build i made in the following link
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz6gzi?Theorycraft-The-Invunerable#8
Having a multi class character is nice if done correctly and the 2 classes are better off by them selves. Also for Paladin imo the best 2 archetypes are Hospitaler combined with Warrior of the Holy Light. A paladin with those 2 archetypes becomes a great condition tank since as a swift action it will be able to heal its self and get rid of just about every harmful condition that can b placed on u. Btw on mercies pick up the nauseated 1 since there is no way a person under normal circumstance can get rid of the condition unless there a paladin, trust.
My opportunity attacks don't hit anyway.
These are second level encounters. "A few guys" is usually most of the enemy force. If I'm surrounded by three guys who are pounding on me, while I negate the attacks that do get through with my lay on hands, I'd say I'm doing my job. We spent some of our first-level treasure on a wand of cure light, which makes the druid the after-combat healer.
The gunslinger and wizard player are new to PF; it seemed like a perfect fit to have my character play human (er, gnomish) shield while they got to play rock star and kill the bad guys.
Okay, so that's two for "You're character's inefficent, your DM is babying you."
Feat and Spell selection advice, anyone?
Anyone actually played a synthesist who has input on hit point status?
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz6gzi?Theorycraft-The-Invunerable#8
is what i played to lv 19 from lv 1 check it out
...
It's a half-elf with an AC of 51 at level 20. With an aquatic eidelon.
I'm in a desert campaign. How is this relevant?
But I'll play. Your build seems to have no spell resistance. So my 14th level build (with an AC of 41, pre-Mage armor or Haste) can hit you with Dimensional Anchor to keep you from DimDooring or teleporting, and then hit you with Dismissal, DC 25, until your Eidelon is gone and you're a swimming half-elf. With a Will save of 14, you need an 11 or better. And until then I just won't go in the water.
I'm assuming one of the many sets of limbs you have is capable of casting spells. But you didn't list what any of them were. Or your gear. I honestly don't know what you're trying to teach me.
You really played this from level 1 to 19 in a month? 20 levels of an aquatic build?
Re: Paladin archetypes, mercies - I'm done with Paladin levels. Only two. Pretty much to get the charisma bonus to saves. After this it will all be Summoner, with Magical Knack to make up for the lost levels.
it was to show how tanky u can be and ive been playing it for 2 months. The reason i did not add gear is because every1 has there own preference.
Two months of an aquatic build?
I'm intrigued. Tell me about the campaign.
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3.5 / Pathfinder game that takes place in a pseudo Atlantis civilization. Warmongers from the surface wishes to invade and party and i are sent to protect area and its natural resources from them while dealing with natural phenomenons. Btw the game im playing is meant to go beyond lv 20 and is using the fast leveling xp chart. Pretty fun for the most part and 3.5 has a lot of rules to make a game go a long time in just about any setting. Were using some home-brew rules thought to keep the game playable beyond level 20 like hp is based of bab after lv 20 ie 10bab progression = 1hp a level, 15 bab = 2 20 bab = 3. Also all races are allowed to have 3 classes and 3 prestige classes except human which is allowed 4 of each. And classes are limited to old WoTC categories being Martial, Divine, Arcane, and rogue to keep mid maxing limited, prestige classes are not limited to this btw. If u want ore info on that rule ill list the classes that go in each category.
If you are going for the long run (which it seems you are), I'd suggest you stick to melee rather than ranged. As you level up, you can get more attacks (both natural and/or manufactured) that way.
By the same token, your STR will continue increasing, (even more so if you pick up the large evolution) so the benefits that you'd get from weap. Finesse would go down over time
Depending on availability of magic items, you can just get a wand of rejuvenate eidolon for the first couple levels as synthesist (you can redirect damage from suit to paladin and then heal with LoH, using the wand only when you run out of your normal healing)
Mage Armor is probably your best option for lvl 1. If your wizard is not doing too much battlefield control, maybe you should consider getting grease.
My recomendation on feats is to take extra Evolution (it will pay off in every level up, giving you more options). At first get claws on your arms so you get 3 natural attacks, afterwards consider adding other heads/more limbs (or even tails + stings) and reskinning them as snakes attacking from the head
Wand is an interesting thought. I might be able to afford 750 by the time we level. Maybe. And if I can't, then I can survive without it for a bit, relying on armor and Standard Summons to be a viable party member if and when the Eidelon wears down. And hey, point blank shot helps the uneidelon'd gnome with her crossbow, too.
Not sure what your point is about "STR will continue increasing". The strength and dex bonuses are inextricably linked as an Eidelon levels, and I can just as easily put evolutions into upping the Dex instead of Strength. And Serpentine forms start out with a head start on Dex.
Maybe you're referring to the damage modifier? Eh. Weapon Finesse will not only work on Finessable weapons in the short term, but all of the natural attacks as well. (Although I'm admittedly not sure about a bite. It seems inextricably linked to Strength in my brain. I guess that's just the damage inflicted, though).
Dex boosts AC (which the unarmed Eidelon needs), a saving throw, ranged attack rolls, initiative... but you guys know all this. It's going to be a Dex/Charisma based build. Caster/arrows.
Anyway, thanks for the input. I guess I kind of decided when we played the other night and I traded in party loot for a big-girl-sized compound longbow.
3.5 / Pathfinder game that takes place in a pseudo Atlantis civilization. Warmongers from the surface wishes to invade and party and i are sent to protect area and its natural resources from them while dealing with natural phenomenons. Btw the game im playing is meant to go beyond lv 20 and is using the fast leveling xp chart. Pretty fun for the most part and 3.5 has a lot of rules to make a game go a long time in just about any setting. Were using some home-brew rules thought to keep the game playable beyond level 20 like hp is based of bab after lv 20 ie 10bab progression = 1hp a level, 15 bab = 2 20 bab = 3. Also all races are allowed to have 3 classes and 3 prestige classes except human which is allowed 4 of each. And classes are limited to old WoTC categories being Martial, Divine, Arcane, and rogue to keep mid maxing limited, prestige classes are not limited to this btw. If u want ore info on that rule ill list the classes that go in each category.
Sounds interesting.
Mostly on the surface? Like, pirates?
I've seen DMs go half insane trying to manage high-level flying combat. Can't imagine managing encounters underwater, especially if combat runs overtime and you have to re-position everybody the following session.
you gotta remember aquatic also just has a slower land speed is all... so if you don't mind moving 20ft...
I actually didn't realize that. Now I know.
And knowing is half the battle.