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There are certain things experienced players do, especially when experienced with a certain class. What examples of this do you see in your games? My examples:
1) Clerics/wizards leaving spell slots open after preparing at the beginning of the day so that a necessary spell can be prepared later.
2) Fighters retraining their fighter feats. It allows for taking short term benefit feats early and replacing later, or just replacing earlier feats to get multiple feats you want that just became available.
3) Melee characters with multiple backup weapons. By that I mean reach weapons, range weapons, a few daggers, a shield (even if built to 2-hand), nets, etc.
Any others?
Understanding how grapple works.
Splitting up full-round actions into two standard actions when necessary.
Inquisitors switching up their teamwork feats, much like a fighter retrains.
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There are certain things experienced players do,....
Come to the game ready to play. They have what they need.
They ask questions that reflect they have thought about the game.
They can answer questions about their character beyond their character's level and the damage the character can do.
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A more advanced version of this is checking the description of the spell you're going to cast next while the previous guy is taking his turn.
This in general. Having your turn planned out, ready to go, and all you need to do is roll, before your turn. No time spent hrmmming and uhhhing.
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Experienced spellcasters
- Have the relevant stats for all their spells (especially DCs) calculated in advance, and noted on either their character sheet or a separate sheet.
- Learn at least one or two spells with no verbal components, and one or two with no somatic components.
- At high level, take Quicken spell. At low level, have some spells that are less than a standard action to cast.
- Have a physical weapon of last resort.
- Learn more than one g%%!@$med elemental type for evocations.
- Know what their spells actually do. Message is a massively underrated low-level "radio" spell for scouting missions, and saves lives.
- Have a list of "my standard all-day buffs" that they hand to the GM, cross off their spells per day, and note on their character sheets.
- Max the Spellcraft skill.
Experienced wizards
- Have a list of "my standard prepared spells, unless I say otherwise".
- Learn all the utility spells they possibly can, and leave a few slots open for them.
- Write as many scrolls as possible. Give them to people who can use them.
Experienced sorcerers
- Use the criterion "is this a spell I will cast literally every day of my life?" when picking their spells.
- Use wands and scrolls.
- Max Use Magic Device if they plan to have access to spells not on their list.
Experienced melee combatants
- Have their attack bonus, damage, and critical threat all spelled out on their character sheet, both WITH and WITHOUT Power Attack. If they have a backup weapon, likewise.
- Know the rules for readying an attack with the trigger "If they start casting a spell."
- Max the Perception skill.
Experienced adventurers
- Drop PRONE when being peppered with arrows from concealment.
- Carry a healing potion at all times.
- Discuss, in character, what the other characters are capable of.
- Sell their souls for initiative bonuses.
- Know which actions are standard actions, which are move, and which free/immediate/swift. If necessary, photocopy the chart from the book.
- Drop a few ranks into Heal and/or Use Magic Device if possible.
- Know when to say "screw it" and just take the AoO.
Experienced players
- Don't make builds that are dependent solely on magic items.
- Don't make characters with exactly one easily-negated style (You're a fantastic grappler? Hope you have a backup plan when I cast freedom of movement.)
- Plan their turns in combat before it comes to them,
- Work out a marching order where relevant.
- Only play characters that could break the group after extensive discusion with the GM and other players.
- Similarly, know when to subordinate "it's in character!" to the needs of the game as a whole.
Experienced GMs
- Know how to improvise.
- Know how to drop clues to players.
- Know when to fudge, and when not to.
- Listen to what their players want.
- Don't reflexively ban things.
- Don't contradict themselves.
- Use fiat as sparingly as they possibly can.
- Know what their monsters can do, and what they're going to do.
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Keep a set of dice and a few minis in their car so you're not constantly forgetting them.
Shower and put on clean clothes the day of the game.
If host, make an effort to clean house. To include cleaning bathroom, kitchen, and (if you have a cat) changing litter pan.
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Understanding how grapple works.
Splitting up full-round actions into two standard actions when necessary.
Inquisitors switching up their teamwork feats, much like a fighter retrains.
I'd like to hear more about this 'splitting up full-round actions into two standard actions' please!
I didn't think this could be done, but if it can I'm eager to learn!
I'd like to hear more about this 'splitting up full-round actions into two standard actions' please!
I didn't think this could be done, but if it can I'm eager to learn!
One of the options for a standard action is "start or complete a full-round action":
Start/Complete Full-Round Action
The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
Due to the limitations on which types of action you can perform with this option, it's most often used for casting full-round action spells and loading heavy crossbows (for characters without rapid reload).
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Due to the limitations on which types of action you can perform with this option, it's most often used for casting full-round action spells and loading heavy crossbows (for characters without rapid reload).
Or administering a potion to an unconscious ally.
Some of the things I want to write could be classified as things that considerate or responsible gamers do. Oh sod it.
1) Keeps track of spell durations, wand charges, remaining rounds of rage, supplies, etc., etc. such that the DM trusts the player and can instead focus on his actual job.
2) Knows how his class features work. Knows how to look up what he doesn't know. Asks DM when not in combat how he wants to rule something.
3) Has a good idea of what he will do next turn, and prepares accordingly, even though things might change before then.
4) Owns dice, brings them, along with paper, pencils, character sheet, mini, etc.
5) Can recall the important parts of his character sheet if it is lost.
6) Uses Player Fiat i.e. gives a DM a freaking break once in a while without being a child.
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I'd like to hear more about this 'splitting up full-round actions into two standard actions' please!
I didn't think this could be done, but if it can I'm eager to learn!
One of the options for a standard action is "start or complete a full-round action":
Start/Complete Full-Round Action
The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.Due to the limitations on which types of action you can perform with this option, it's most often used for casting full-round action spells and loading heavy crossbows (for characters without rapid reload).
Oh! I thought you meant splitting a full-round action into two standard actions in the same round!
6) Uses Player Fiat i.e. gives a DM a freaking break once in a while without being a child.Can you be more specific? (There are lots of ways to not be a child, after all!)
I suppose what I really want to say is: act like a grown-up, or pretend to be one. We're all at the table to enjoy ourselves, so don't ruin someone else's enjoyment. We all make mistakes, but DM mistakes, honest ones included, will affect the characters more than the other way around. When something really bad happens to your character, don't be a dick to the DM (ignoring for the moment the possibility of an a#!%@@$ DM situation). It is a game after all, and if you can't hold back your spite, then choose to hold your tongue.
...Rant complete... ...Sorry if thats still vague...
The sign of experience is treating your fellow players maturely regardless of which side of the screen they are on.
True.
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Tell a story about a previous game at an inappropriate time.
Experienced spellcasters
- Have the relevant stats for all their spells (especially DCs) calculated in advance, and noted on either their character sheet or a separate sheet.
- Learn at least one or two spells with no verbal components, and one or two with no somatic components.
- At high level, take Quicken spell. At low level, have some spells that are less than a standard action to cast.
- Have a physical weapon of last resort.
- Learn more than one g@#&!!med elemental type for evocations.
- Know what their spells actually do. Message is a massively underrated low-level "radio" spell for scouting missions, and saves lives.
- Have a list of "my standard all-day buffs" that they hand to the GM, cross off their spells per day, and note on their character sheets.
- Max the Spellcraft skill.Experienced wizards
- Have a list of "my standard prepared spells, unless I say otherwise".
- Learn all the utility spells they possibly can, and leave a few slots open for them.
- Write as many scrolls as possible. Give them to people who can use them.Experienced sorcerers
- Use the criterion "is this a spell I will cast literally every day of my life?" when picking their spells.
- Use wands and scrolls.
- Max Use Magic Device if they plan to have access to spells not on their list.Experienced melee combatants
- Have their attack bonus, damage, and critical threat all spelled out on their character sheet, both WITH and WITHOUT Power Attack. If they have a backup weapon, likewise.
- Know the rules for readying an attack with the trigger "If they start casting a spell."
- Max the Perception skill.Experienced adventurers
- Drop PRONE when being peppered with arrows from concealment.
- Carry a healing potion at all times.
- Discuss, in character, what the other characters are capable of.
- Sell their souls for initiative bonuses.
- Know which actions are standard actions, which are move, and which free/immediate/swift. If necessary, photocopy the chart from the book.
- Drop a few ranks...
A definite +1 for Attacks of Opportunity. As a martial class, I just man up and take one if I need to get somewhere or do a Combat Maneuver on someone without the feat.
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Signs of Experience for a GM:
- Knowing when to say no.
- Knowing when to say yes.
- Knowing when to stick to your guns and when to compromise.
Signs of Experience for a Player:
- Knowing how to accept no as an answer.
- Knowing how to convince a GM to say yes.
- Knowing when to stick to your guns and when to compromise.
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There are certain things experienced players do, especially when experienced with a certain class. What examples of this do you see in your games? My examples:
1) Clerics/wizards leaving spell slots open after preparing at the beginning of the day so that a necessary spell can be prepared later.
Clerics can't fill a open slot later in the day. So it isn't a sign of a knowledgeable player.
Time of Day: A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular time of day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, she must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, she must wait until the next day to prepare spells.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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There are certain things experienced players do, especially when experienced with a certain class. What examples of this do you see in your games? My examples:
1) Clerics/wizards leaving spell slots open after preparing at the beginning of the day so that a necessary spell can be prepared later.
Clerics can't fill a open slot later in the day. So it isn't a sign of a knowledgeable player.
Time of Day: A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular time of day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, she must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, she must wait until the next day to prepare spells.
An experienced/knowledgeable player knows that it's not just the first paragraph under a given heading that has rules in it - the rest of the text is there for a reason, too. ;)
When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
There are certain things experienced players do, especially when experienced with a certain class. What examples of this do you see in your games? My examples:
1) Clerics/wizards leaving spell slots open after preparing at the beginning of the day so that a necessary spell can be prepared later.
Clerics can't fill a open slot later in the day. So it isn't a sign of a knowledgeable player.
Time of Day: A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular time of day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, she must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, she must wait until the next day to prepare spells.
Actually. You should look at the whole section before dismissing that. It's under the same location as it is for Arcane.
"Spell Selection and Preparation
A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a divine spellcaster can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells."
A Cleric (or any prepared Divine caster) can also leave spell slots open and prepare them at a later date.
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Spell Selection and Preparation: A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
Bold mine. The specific time of day is when you can clear out unused spells from the previous day and replace them, as well as fill slots that were used the previous day. You can prepare a spell in an empty slot whenever you want.
EDIT: super ninja'd
I won the ninja war! :D
Nice! :)
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There are certain things experienced players do, especially when experienced with a certain class. What examples of this do you see in your games? My examples:
1) Clerics/wizards leaving spell slots open after preparing at the beginning of the day so that a necessary spell can be prepared later.
I'd argue that for low-level characters, particularly clerics, it's much less important--until the party is carrying around lots of CLW wands, being able to convert memorized spells to cures takes care of the vast majority of spells you'd want to cast in any case.
I have the sneaking suspicion that this thread is actually a Favorites Farm.
It's not permitted by RAW, but if I was GMing a long-running campaign over many levels, I'd seriously consider letting characters retrain/respec at 10th level or so.
It's not as bad as with some other systems, but there's still a big difference between a character built at tenth level and a character that had to choose their feats/other abilities level by level in such a way that they actually survived those first ten levels.
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There are certain things experienced players do, especially when experienced with a certain class. What examples of this do you see in your games? My examples:
1) Clerics/wizards leaving spell slots open after preparing at the beginning of the day so that a necessary spell can be prepared later.
Clerics can't fill a open slot later in the day. So it isn't a sign of a knowledgeable player.
Time of Day: A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular time of day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, she must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, she must wait until the next day to prepare spells.An experienced/knowledgeable player knows that it's not just the first paragraph under a given heading that has rules in it - the rest of the text is there for a reason, too. ;)
When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
Well, well, well, you learn something new every day. I was left with the 3.5 ruling that clerics can memorize spells only once in the day. Instead in Pathfinder they can leave empty slots and fill them later.
Another one for Cheapy thread.
A more advanced version of this is checking the description of the spell you're going to cast next while the previous guy is taking his turn.This in general. Having your turn planned out, ready to go, and all you need to do is roll, before your turn. No time spent hrmmming and uhhhing.
I've tried this several times before. Inevitably I miss something, such as a change of circumstances due to my distracted reading or mental planning, then declare my turn's actions only to be met with "Really!? Weren't you even listening?" The turn ends up taking longer due to everyone needing to explain what I missed and my needing to course correct than if I hadn't tried to plan my turn out in advance in the first place.
RD : I'm sure there's a happy medium between having your turn planned out, and missing events between your turns. Am I right?
RD : I'm sure there's a happy medium between having your turn planned out, and missing events between your turns. Am I right?
I would agree, I believe it can be done. A player could think ahead and yet listen to what is happening at the table. It doesn't have to be a "all or nothing" situation in my opinion.
Never said that it couldn't be done, just that it didn't work for me.
Ravingdork: the solution I found that works when I ran into that a few times is to plan what you're going to do, and Just Do It. Changed battle field and new information be damned!
Generally works better with ranged characters.
Ah, yes. Precalculate every single combination of modifiers that can show up.
My bard archer had his stats for each combination of rapid shot, manyshot (as an aside next to RS), haste, inspire courage, good hope, and deadly aim. Then you just read off which combination you're using, and you're golden.
Just hope you don't level up anytime soon, but even then that's just a +1 to all the numbers.
I always felt there were two types of experienced players.
1) The player that is prepared for a types of situations and carries the gear needed to to tackle these problems. This the the players with potions / scrolls / wands / multiple weapon types / magic items for a variety of situations that are not common but when they come up you sure do wish you are prepared.
2) The player who even after having all the stuff above, knows that sometimes things just don't go their way. This is the player that has had a GM who is out to get them. This is the player who takes Run as a feat and is unashamed and in fact proud that they did. They will leave all the stuff above on the ground and run away to fight another day instead of stand, die, and make a new character.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Experienced players roll the die before finalizing all the bonuses - there's typically a wide range of auto-failures/auto-successes and a fairly narrow band where an individual modifier will change the outcome. So, if you're trying to figure out if the invisible ally gives you a flanking bonus, thus increasing your modifier from +5 to +7, just roll the die and see if it actually matters (which it won't about 90% of the time).
There's nothing quite as frustrating as spending 10 minutes milking every single modifier, only to roll a nat 1 and have all those calculations become irrelevant.
Never said that it couldn't be done, just that it didn't work for me.
True, then in that case go with what works for you. :-)
@labrat: I agree, it is some times better to run then to try and fight.
And another thought: I have found experianced players and GMs are open to new ideas. They have learned there is always new stuff out there.
Experienced players roll the die before finalizing all the bonuses - there's typically a wide range of auto-failures/auto-successes and a fairly narrow band where an individual modifier will change the outcome. So, if you're trying to figure out if the invisible ally gives you a flanking bonus, thus increasing your modifier from +5 to +7, just roll the die and see if it actually matters (which it won't about 90% of the time).
There's nothing quite as frustrating as spending 10 minutes milking every single modifier, only to roll a nat 1 and have all those calculations become irrelevant.
That is true. I usually see the experienced players roll all dice at once to save time. The first place they will typically look is at the percentage dice or other roll that gives you a Yes or No answer (vs concealment, etc). If yes then they pay attention to the rest of the dice.
Experienced players roll the die before finalizing all the bonuses - there's typically a wide range of auto-failures/auto-successes and a fairly narrow band where an individual modifier will change the outcome. So, if you're trying to figure out if the invisible ally gives you a flanking bonus, thus increasing your modifier from +5 to +7, just roll the die and see if it actually matters (which it won't about 90% of the time).
There's nothing quite as frustrating as spending 10 minutes milking every single modifier, only to roll a nat 1 and have all those calculations become irrelevant.
This has sped up our game sooooooooo much.