Dead Construct / Half-Construct PCs

[Harrison]

This is something that's been on my mind since the release of the Advanced Race Guide, mostly stewing in the back of my mind until recently, and doing a quick search of the Paizo forums hasn't really revealed anything that might help answer this question:

How exactly is a GM and his/her group supposed to deal with the death of a player laying a construct or half-construct character?

The rules specifically state that a construct and half-construct character cannot be resurrected, and for a construct that makes sense. They're all machine, so there isn't a soul that can be pulled back from the afterlife and put back into the body, but what about half-constructs? Why can't someone who's only partially mechanical be resurrected?

And outside of the reasoning, what am I as a GM supposed to do to a player if their construct/half-construct player character ends up dying? Is my only option just to tell them "tough luck, roll a new character"? Is there any chance Paizo could release in some supplement a way to bring back a fallen construct/half-construct PC?

[EDIT] Also, I wasn't sure if this was best posted here or in General Discussion, so if it needs moving, feel free.

[Skylancer4]

When they decided to make that character, they took on the penalty as well as the benefit of that creature type. You know walking in that you cannot be brought back, so how are you going to be irritated that the situation comes up? As the DM you can decide to run it differently, but that is always the case.

[Frankthedm]

Skylancer4 wrote:

You know walking in that you cannot be brought back, so how are you going to be irritated that the situation comes up?

Exactly! Being brought back from the dead is something the ruleset assumes can happen and higher level challenges factor that in. Give that up at your own peril.

Harrison wrote:

Is there any chance Paizo could release in some supplement a way to bring back a fallen construct/half-construct PC?

Most folks would assume a Wish spell should be enough to jump start the character. May be tricky and expensive getting one, but the party might want to consider trying to get a one shot Wish item so they have a Restore Disc for worst case scenarios.

[Michael Sayre]

I also posit to you that if you are interested in a well supported, well balanced construct race, you check out Rite Publishing's fantastic .pdf Ironborn of Questhaven. It gives a fantastic and well-supported construct race that bypasses some of the issues you're bumping into while really giving you that construct "feel". We've adopted it as our go-to supplement for a balanced Warforged race when running our Pathfinder campaign in the Eberron setting.

[Grand Moff Vixen]

Ssalarn wrote:

I also posit to you that if you are interested in a well supported, well balanced construct race, you check out Rite Publishing's fantastic .pdf Ironborn of Questhaven. It gives a fantastic and well-supported construct race that bypasses some of the issues you're bumping into while really giving you that construct "feel". We've adopted it as our go-to supplement for a balanced Warforged race when running our Pathfinder campaign in the Eberron setting.

I am just beginning an ironborn character in a game. After looking over the book I really like it. It gives a mostly construct feel without the penalty of a full construct.

I highly recommend the book for anyone who likes races like this. Also, it is good for Eberron games.

[Ris Dnalor]

Harrison wrote:

This is something that's been on my mind since the release of the Advanced Race Guide, mostly stewing in the back of my mind until recently, and doing a quick search of the Paizo forums hasn't really revealed anything that might help answer this question:

How exactly is a GM and his/her group supposed to deal with the death of a player laying a construct or half-construct character?

The rules specifically state that a construct and half-construct character cannot be resurrected, and for a construct that makes sense. They're all machine, so there isn't a soul that can be pulled back from the afterlife and put back into the body, but what about half-constructs? Why can't someone who's only partially mechanical be resurrected?

And outside of the reasoning, what am I as a GM supposed to do to a player if their construct/half-construct player character ends up dying? Is my only option just to tell them "tough luck, roll a new character"? Is there any chance Paizo could release in some supplement a way to bring back a fallen construct/half-construct PC?

[EDIT] Also, I wasn't sure if this was best posted here or in General Discussion, so if it needs moving, feel free.

Lots of ways you can deal with this. If you as a GM want this to work, simply house-rule it.

** Perhaps instead of death, the robot merely went dormant, and with sufficient repairs, who's to say the "personality" information has to be lost?

[Diego Rossi]

If the character is a construct, someone has crafted it. A dead construct is a broken magic item, so it can be repaired, either by a make whole cast by an insanely high level caster or using the rules for reconstructing broken magic items (spending half of the gold and half of the time needed to build one from scratch , you still need the feat).

At that point it should again be operative. As Ris Dnalor pointed out, there is no reason to say that the "personality" informations have to been lost.
AFAIK, if you rebuild a destroyed intelligent magic item you get back a item with the same intelligence and personality.

[partyrico]

I don't think this would be a RAW way to bring the construct back to life but I like the idea of using animate objects followed by permanency. This means that death isn't permanent, but it requires finding two more obscure/unique spells and paying a 15000 gp material component (permanency on animate object)

[Kazaan]

Harrison wrote:

This is something that's been on my mind since the release of the Advanced Race Guide, mostly stewing in the back of my mind until recently, and doing a quick search of the Paizo forums hasn't really revealed anything that might help answer this question:

How exactly is a GM and his/her group supposed to deal with the death of a player laying a construct or half-construct character?

The rules specifically state that a construct and half-construct character cannot be resurrected, and for a construct that makes sense. They're all machine, so there isn't a soul that can be pulled back from the afterlife and put back into the body, but what about half-constructs? Why can't someone who's only partially mechanical be resurrected?

And outside of the reasoning, what am I as a GM supposed to do to a player if their construct/half-construct player character ends up dying? Is my only option just to tell them "tough luck, roll a new character"? Is there any chance Paizo could release in some supplement a way to bring back a fallen construct/half-construct PC?

[EDIT] Also, I wasn't sure if this was best posted here or in General Discussion, so if it needs moving, feel free.

I think maybe you're reversing the priority of the "construct half". You're thinking of it as a living person with "construct cyborg parts" added on. That case would indicate a living person with a living soul and just highly advanced, magical prosthesis. Given the nature of the Half-Construct subtype, especially the "no resurrection" clause, it's more fitting to say that this is a Construct primarily that has been fitted with complicated organic prosthesis.

[Claxon]

From what I recall in 3.5 a construct just became dormant, as another poster mentioned, when reduced to 0 hp. Provided that the "body" wasn't completely destroyed it could be repaired and restored to life. I'm not sure if Pathfinder works the same way with constructs or not, but you could implement that feature anyways.

[wraithstrike]

Actually constructs are destroyed upon reaching 0 hit points, and they are creatures not magic items so by the rules there is no bringing them back. That combined with their high cost is why most players never try to invest in them.

[Kazaan]

Claxon wrote:

From what I recall in 3.5 a construct just became dormant, as another poster mentioned, when reduced to 0 hp. Provided that the "body" wasn't completely destroyed it could be repaired and restored to life. I'm not sure if Pathfinder works the same way with constructs or not, but you could implement that feature anyways.

In Pathfinder, reducing a construct to 0 HP represents dealing enough damage to make it crumble apart. Basically, 0 HP means destruction of the physical form and there's no "dormant" stage representing damage between "enough to stop it from functioning" and "enough to completely break it apart". Constructs explicitly continue to function at full capacity (barring specific form-altering damage such as severing a limb) until they completely break to pieces. At that point, you "might" be able to salvage some of the material components to create a new construct. Now, in the custom modifications section for Constructs, it shows that you can outfit a construct with a functioning brain to give it an intelligence score and let it learn feats and skills. Hypothetically speaking, if this jar survived the destruction of the construct or were simply removed and placed into a new construct body, the feats and skills could be "transplanted". Presuming the organic parts of a Half-Construct can be properly preserved, I wouldn't find it too out of line to say that someone with the proper feats could build a new construct body and re-incorporate the preserved organic parts to "build" a new half-construct. It would be far more involved than a "standard" resurrection. Alternatively, just preserve the brain and re-animate it as a Brain alteration so the character can "survive", going from Half-Construct to a modified Full Construct.