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| 14 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Question unclear. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Alright, it's not that great of a summoner archetype, however, i noticed this.
Summon Nature’s Ally (Sp)
Starting at 1st level, a first worlder can cast summon nature’s ally a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. At levels where a summoner would gain a more powerful summon monster spell as a spell-like ability, he instead gains the equivalent summon nature’s ally spell (at 19th level, he can use summon nature’s ally IX or gate). When a first worlder gains a summon nature’s ally spell as a spell-like ability, he adds it to his class spell list (he must still select it as a spell known if he wants to cast it as an actual spell).
This ability otherwise replaces the summon monster ability of a normal summoner.
It doesnt say you cant have out the eidolon and the SNA at the same time, can you? it also doesnt say it lasts 1 min per level. so what's the verdict on this?
At a guess (and by RAW) I would say "yes". This is mainly due to animal summonings tend to be weaker than their extraplanar counterparts and the eidolon is severely weakened (d6 instead of d10 hp and 1/2 base attack etc.)
It also doesn't say whether you can have more than one natures ally spell active at the same time. So this restriction also seems to have been removed.
Whether this is intentional... *shrugs*
Decided to drop an FAQ request on that.
Also, I'd go with what Avian said myself.
not that im aware of, but since i just built one i would be very curious about it too, ill hit faq on it.
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I too would like to know more.
Given that the First World Summoner's Eidolons are "nerfed" with less hitpoints, lower bab, etc. Could this be meant to balance the class?
Also note that while the Summon Nature’s Ally (Sp) is stated as "This ability otherwise replaces the summon monster ability of a normal summoner."
Their Eidolon replacement is stated as "This otherwise works like and replaces the eidolon ability of a normal summoner."
Note the lack of the "work like" term in the SNA (sp).
Some clarification would be really nice.
Do you mean the Wild Caller from Ultimate Races? I can't seem to find the First World Summoner archetype anywhere.
EDIT: Found it in Inner Sea Magic. It's a shame the two archetypes can't be used together. That would have been awesome!
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As one who criticised the archetype when it first came out, that does go some way to rebalancing the abilities.
Whether it would be enough to make me play one, I'd have to think.
There are certainly times when the ability to bring out an extra creature as a standard action would be an encounter changer, and when both can stick around simultaneously for several minutes, it could set up some synergistic effects.
I was already past the point at which I could have taken the archetype for PFS play, so there's no retconning planned.
I'll continue to play the character as I always did, claiming my creatures are from the First World, where not explicitly from the Upper/Lower planes.
What I would like to have seen would be a method of adding the Nature's Ally spells to the existing list. They are less powerful than the equivalent Summon Monster choices, so would be an option mostly picked by players who wanted variety, or flavor, rather than power.
I'd just use it to summon tons of pugwampi's. I sure hope the rest of the party have a lucky item on them (or are halflings).
Could you cite that verdict?
We should probably raise the same question about the Wild Caller archetype, since it also replaces Summon Monster with Summon Nature's Ally but does not have a seriously nerfed an eidolon (they gain extra evolution points in exchange for some evolutions being forbidden to them).
And I would knock the First Worlder eidolon -- there is very little that it can do that a standard eidolon cannot do better. Those extra class skills do not mean as much when a standard eidolon can pick any four skills as class skills -- and Perception is also on the standard eidolon's base list. Its only advantage is in regard to Knowledge skills, and then only if it spreads its skill points among more skills than a standard eidolon can make into class skills.
So would the same apply to a Wild Caller? The wording for that archetype's Summon Nature's Ally ability is virtually indistinguishable from that of the First Worlder, and I know my DM would consider it insane if a Wild Caller could use that ability while a mostly standard eidolon with extra evolution points is out. The interpretation of "cross out Summon Monster, put Summon Nature's Ally in its place wherever it is mentioned" would be far saner.
If this ability is meant to be a specific boost to the First Worlder archetype, it needs to be an explicit errata rather than an interpretation that could just as easily be applied to stronger archetypes such as the Wild Caller.
So would the same apply to a Wild Caller? The wording for that archetype's Summon Nature's Ally ability is virtually indistinguishable from that of the First Worlder, and I know my DM would consider it insane if a Wild Caller could use that ability while a mostly standard eidolon with extra evolution points is out. The interpretation of "cross out Summon Monster, put Summon Nature's Ally in its place wherever it is mentioned" would be far saner.
If this ability is meant to be a specific boost to the First Worlder archetype, it needs to be an explicit errata rather than an interpretation that could just as easily be applied to stronger archetypes such as the Wild Caller.
There is a difference. The Wild Caller states that it "otherwise functions as . . . and replaces" the original ability. The First Worlder only replaces.
Ah, thank you -- that is the point I was missing.
