RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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The biggest thing powerwise would be the flight in my opinion... but unless I am missing something, I do not see ANYTHING that would give him flight! ??How is he flying??I assume he has the Wings of Fire mystery, even though it's not listed.
Exactly correct. Hero Lab didn't list this which I submitted to Lone Wolf as a little buggie to squash.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Wow everyone seems to just think point buy is where it is at. I love rolling for stats in my group. You do not end up with cookie cutter characters. The old 4d6 drop the lowest method is what we use. A lot of the time you do not even know what you are going to play till you roll your stats and see what you got.
I don't know maybe I am just old school lol I have been playing D&D for 27 years now lol. I still have my old red box, blue box for D&D.
You and I share the same philosophy. I won't use point buy ever, in fact we use this same method and I'm old school as well. :)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Resolution: The player has dropped from the game and the character is now an NPC. The group is already aware that the character will be making some sort of exit. My plan is to pump up the "diminutive" Azlanti Idols in area X3 and make them full sized constructs who really, really hate fire. Rin will be going out with a bang! :)
By the way, I have a very agreeable group and we're good friends. Even if I did need to ask for rebuilds or anything like that they would do it for me, so I don't really need to strong arm anyone.
I do happen to agree with the consensus that the stats are cheated.
Finally, does it say somewhere in the AP that characters should be point buy or how the characters should be built? I'm accustomed to seeing that information before the adventure background? In any case, I'm old school and will always use dice for stats.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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You and I share the same philosophy. I won't use point buy ever, in fact we use this same method and I'm old school as well. :)Wow everyone seems to just think point buy is where it is at. I love rolling for stats in my group. You do not end up with cookie cutter characters. The old 4d6 drop the lowest method is what we use. A lot of the time you do not even know what you are going to play till you roll your stats and see what you got.
I don't know maybe I am just old school lol I have been playing D&D for 27 years now lol. I still have my old red box, blue box for D&D.
At a minimum you need to have the players roll in front of your face.
A fairer way to do rolling is to have each player roll 2 sets of stats.
But any player can choose any other players set of stats.
I allow a maximum of 3 sets, pick the best set. This usually results in characters with mixed +/- stats. I like characters to have some flaws and bumps rather than being Star Trek TNG perfect. Lol. Point buy to me is like RPG eugenics! :-)
This whole discussion illustrates the problem with rolled stats. The issue of whether the stats are overpowered has nothing to do with how they were generated. By any objective standard, these stats are too high -- and the fact that you may actually have seen a player roll these numbers does not change that fact; it just makes it more difficult for you to get that player to reduce the numbers to be in line with what the other players rolled.
You may argue that there is an element of "realism" in rolling stats, but then why do you allow a player to arrange the rolls as desired? Why do you (usually) choose race after ability scores are rolled instead of before? By allowing these elements of choice, you prevent the random rolls from serving any purpose other than setting the power level of the character -- which is the one thing that a DM typically would not want to leave to chance.
I do happen to agree with the consensus that the stats are cheated.
Does not mean the rolls were cheated. Game we just started playing we got to roll 2 sets of 4d6 drop the lowest die on each. My first set rolled in front of the group was 18, 17 16, 14, 14 13. Yes it does happen, and I am a VERY buff wizard =)
Resolution: The player has dropped from the game and the character is now an NPC. The group is already aware that the character will be making some sort of exit. My plan is to pump up the "diminutive" Azlanti Idols in area X3 and make them full sized constructs who really, really hate fire. Rin will be going out with a bang! :)
By the way, I have a very agreeable group and we're good friends. Even if I did need to ask for rebuilds or anything like that they would do it for me, so I don't really need to strong arm anyone.
I do happen to agree with the consensus that the stats are cheated.
Finally, does it say somewhere in the AP that characters should be point buy or how the characters should be built? I'm accustomed to seeing that information before the adventure background? In any case, I'm old school and will always use dice for stats.
James Jacobs has said that while 15 point buy is Paizo's standard that it is ok to use 20 point buy since that is what PFS uses. Sorry to hear that the player dropped. That is why it is just better to roll in front of the GM so he knows you did not cheat, just in case the dice gods lend you a hand.
I do have 2 questions, and this is not for everyone that rolls, only those to whom it pertains.
Some GM's make/allow you to reroll if you roll too high or too low for their taste, but that defeats the purpose of rolling, at least by the way I see it and/or hear it described by other GM's that favor it.
1. If you want to keep the players within a certain set of scores, cut you don't like point buy then why not just use a stat array. That way players can't buy up or buy down a score?
2. Alternatively if you have a min or max acceptable set of scores then why not declare before the game what that is. If someone rolls too well they get your max, and if someone goes below your minimum then they get your minimum score array. This also prevent someone who rolled too high from receiving an equally low roll set the next time around. It also get rid of the "keep rolling until...".
PS:Just curious to see if my ideas are viable solutions... :)
I never use point buy. He started with these stats:
Str 15, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 18
No, I didn't see him roll either. I generally go with the honor system.
He cheated.
well... i did once roll 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 17 :D
Yeah, like winning the lottery twice..(and played a Moomin pirate.. haha!)
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As I understand it, it's easier for the GM to say "that looks good" or "that looks bad, roll again" than to make stat arrays. It's laziness, but some people just don't have the time/initiative to make stat arrays. Judging "too high" and "too low" with a formula is hard. Which of these are too good/too bad?
18/18/15/13/5/4
17/16/14/14/12/9
15/15/15/15/14/13
18/16/12/10/8/6
16/14/10/10/9/8
12/12/12/8/8/5
If you wanted to mathematically judge these and do an "if too high, then array [max]; if too low, then array [min]" without any GM judgement, you'd probably have to build a matrix that every player would have to plug their stats into. That's also alot of work. If you use the values for point buy, why aren't you just using point buy?
Basically, just saying "too high" or "too low" and having them roll again is the easiest. I'm still in favor of point buy or arrays, but some people just love to roll.
Here is a hybrid method for stat generation:
Start with point buy. Spend points on critical stats for the chosen class and race. Then, for each stat at 10 replace it with a 4d6 keep 3. For example, building a fighter with 20 point buy you might spend 10 points in strength, 5 in con, 5 in dex. Then let the dice gods determine intelligence, wisdom, charisma.
Class and race is chosen before any rolling. This should equalize the power level of characters (unless players are willing to risk a roll for a critical stat) while allowing more variation in non-critical stats.
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Here is a hybrid method for stat generation:
Start with point buy. Spend points on critical stats for the chosen class and race. Then, for each stat at 10 replace it with a 4d6 keep 3. For example, building a fighter with 20 point buy you might spend 10 points in strength, 5 in con, 5 in dex. Then let the dice gods determine intelligence, wisdom, charisma.
Class and race is chosen before any rolling. This should equalize the power level of characters (unless players are willing to risk a roll for a critical stat) while allowing more variation in non-critical stats.
This is really awesome for wizards and really bad for monks.
Resolution: The player has dropped from the game and the character is now an NPC. The group is already aware that the character will be making some sort of exit. My plan is to pump up the "diminutive" Azlanti Idols in area X3 and make them full sized constructs who really, really hate fire. Rin will be going out with a bang! :)
Finally, does it say somewhere in the AP that characters should be point buy or how the characters should be built? I'm accustomed to seeing that information before the adventure background? In any case, I'm old school and will always use dice for stats.
I just hope that the player understood the reasoning and went along with your decision in the event that he will get to play a different character with the same group (eventually).
As far as the "Point Buy" issue is concerned, it was mentioned by the Devs that all the APs they develop are based on a 15 point buy group, and that allowing 20 point buys would be acceptable (since that is the standard they use for PFS sessions).
In regards to Point Buy v.s. Rolling Stats, the benefit of Point Buy is that it allows players to "build" their own characters instead of the dice doing it for them, and it puts all players on an even ground.
Personally, I would hate being severely understatted compared to the other players because it just means I'm dead weight, and that my character is severely weak. Sure, a character can have flaws in them, and that's something that makes a character enjoyable, but that's all a matter of balance, which the Point Buy system greatly supports.
It also helps quell situations like these from the get-go, so it helps in preventing (and sealing) rifts that Rolling for stats may create (such as what many people have commented on, that players may be cheating their stats or that it will make their character severely overpowered compared to the rest of the party, which won't be fun for the rest of them).
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Also, rolling your stats is a leftover from earlier systems where making a character wasn't much more involved than rolling your stats and writing them on your sheet along with a race and class. If your stats were bad, you died, and made a new character in the 10 mins it took for your teammates to finish the fight. Characters were expected to die, and only the strong remained.
In pathfinder, characters are expected to participate from the beginning of a campaign to the end. Making a new character can take hours, and so having a sub-standard character due to rolled stats is a major setback. You can still get your weak self killed to try to reroll, but those hours you spent making an interesting character with background motivations and interesting abilities were wasted, and you have to start over. If you roll poorly you might as well level in commoner to speed up your chance of dying, just so you can make an interesting character that won't die quickly.