The Mini Guide to Paragon Surge


Advice

51 to 69 of 69 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Mind you, it still makes Half-Elfs awesome, because being able to "tailor" your spell list each day on the fly with a single 3rd level spell, is still very nice. Or you can use it for something else you need first. Definitely a lot more fair.


I can now reasonably play a half elf!

Before, I couldn't really, because I would play a half elf, get this spell, and then basically be forced to use it like an idiot for any gameplay to proceed. Now I can use it basically guilt free

Scarab Sages

A ring of spell knowledge is still the better choice for most of a spontaneous caster's career.


Since as near as I can tell, a wizard applies metamagic feats when he selects spells for the day, could a wizard with Fast Study use this to acquire a metamagic feat prior to preparing spells, prepare his spells with the metamagic feat then use them all day?

Sovereign Court

Since someone just necro'd this thread I figure I might as well add the following from the ARG FAQ. If you're playing PFS, when casting this spell you declare what feat you're gaining and you're stuck with that for the rest of the day if you attempt additional casts. Still really useful, but not as flexible as what the guide made it out to be. (Then again, the FAQ probably came out after this mini-guide)

PFS FAQ - ARG wrote:

Half-Elf, paragon surge: Can I cast paragon surge multiple times in a day to gain different benefits?

No. The first time each day that you cast paragon surge, you must select a feat and make all the associated choices that come with it. Once that choice is made, it is set for the day and additional castings must make the exact same decisions.


don't forget that this spell gives you potentially all the magic item crafting feats. Since you can only craft a single item at a time anyway, you would just paragon surge-craft wondrous items one day, then paragon surge-forge ring the next day. before you ask, notice that the spell says nothing about ignoring feat prerequisites, so you would still need to meet those. no reliquary arms and shield for you. lol.

I personally allow this spell in my games. It has never been a big deal. I wish people would quit whining so much about game-balance. Pathfinder is not an MMORPG or some shit. Your personal pathfinder game essentially exists inside of a vacuum, noone else effects your game but your group. So what if other players out there are doing dumb shit. Things are only OP if an individual GM can't deal with them. Every Gm has a different threshhold and trying to conform the entire game to one single standard is stupid. If anything about the game is too strong for you to deal with as a GM, just tell your players "This shit is too crazy. I can't balance the encounters with this dumb shit in the game. it won't be fun." If the players are reasonable people that will be enough. if they're not, f%*& em. get new friends.


Ginsu23 wrote:
don't forget that this spell gives you potentially all the magic item crafting feats. Since you can only craft a single item at a time anyway, you would just paragon surge-craft wondrous items one day, then paragon surge-forge ring the next day. before you ask, notice that the spell says nothing about ignoring feat prerequisites, so you would still need to meet those. no reliquary arms and shield for you. lol.

The spell lasts 1 minute per level, crafting takes ever so slightly longer than that.


Ginsu23 wrote:


I personally allow this spell in my games. It has never been a big deal. I wish people would quit whining so much about game-balance. Pathfinder is not an MMORPG or some s!$$. Your personal pathfinder game essentially exists inside of a vacuum, noone else effects your game but your group. So what if other players out there are doing dumb s!+!. Things are only OP if an individual GM can't deal with them. Every Gm has a different threshhold and trying to conform the entire game to one single standard is stupid. If anything about the game is too strong for you to deal with as a GM, just tell your players "This s+&+ is too crazy. I can't balance the encounters with this dumb s&!@ in the game. it won't be fun." If the players are reasonable people that will be enough. if they're not, f!+$ em. get new friends.

I have to second this. I've noticed it in pretty much any game I DM or play in. The rest of the "Pathfinder Universe" doesn't matter. Only "Does it work in your game" matters.

There is a huge amount of munchkin-fu out there. However, if your group doesn't have it, why worry about it? It's a waste of time.

Dark Archive

Would a half-orc qualify for the Racial Heritage feat, and by extension Paragon Surge?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Karcinal Eschatar wrote:
Would a half-orc qualify for the Racial Heritage feat, and by extension Paragon Surge?

If a half-orc took Racial Heritage and chose half-elf (or elf?) then they would qualify for paragon surge.


Ravingdork wrote:
Karcinal Eschatar wrote:
Would a half-orc qualify for the Racial Heritage feat, and by extension Paragon Surge?
If a half-orc took Racial Heritage and chose half-elf (or elf?) then they would qualify for paragon surge.

Only Half-elf.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

There's also a subdomain that grants Paragon Surge as a 4th level spell, only any race can use it. Now any race with access to the Racial Heritage feat, no matter what race they can be, can now abuse the ever loving hell out of this spell as well.

Now here's the new question: which race has the best racial feats?


Reduxist: Self-Realization is an Apocrypha subdomain, thus :A domain-using PC can gain access to one of these subdomains via the following faith trait.

Acolyte of Apocrypha (Faith): Your religious studies hinged on teachings rarely recognized by your faith. You can select one of the apocryphal subdomains detailed below, provided the subdomain is associated with your patron deity. In some cases, you can select a subdomain associated with a deity despite that deity not offering the associated domain—these exceptions are noted with an asterisk (*), and you gain domain powers and domain spells from the associated domain as usual, even though your deity normally doesn’t grant access to that domain. When selecting a subdomain associated with two domains, a priest can choose only a subdomain that modifies a domain to which he has access.

So you must worship either: Arshea, Falayna, Haagenti, Irori, Kurgess, Shei, or Urgathoa.

Also, for divine casters, this gives much less of a bonus then for arcane casters.


Michael MacComb wrote:
Also, for divine casters, this gives much less of a bonus then for arcane casters.

What makes you say that?

Edit: sure they don't get expanded arcana, but there's many, many feats, and many divine casters have some melee ability but no bonus feats.


andreww wrote:
Ginsu23 wrote:
don't forget that this spell gives you potentially all the magic item crafting feats. Since you can only craft a single item at a time anyway, you would just paragon surge-craft wondrous items one day, then paragon surge-forge ring the next day. before you ask, notice that the spell says nothing about ignoring feat prerequisites, so you would still need to meet those. no reliquary arms and shield for you. lol.
The spell lasts 1 minute per level, crafting takes ever so slightly longer than that.

. . . . Unless you have the Shapechanger Sorcerer Bloodline 3rd level Bloodline Power and effective Sorcerer Level 9th level (if you are getting this through Eldritch Heritage + Improved Eldritch Heritage, this means Character Level 11), because Paragon Surge is a Transmutation spell with a base duration of 1 minute/level, and this 3rd level Bloodline Power initially extends the duration of your own Transmutation spells affecting you to 10 minutes per level, and then at effective Sorcerer level 9 extends them to 1 hour per level. Weapons-grade cheese. Suggested nerf: Make Paragon Surge an Enchantment spell.

With respect to using the Self-Realization Subdomain, as far as I can tell you DON'T need Racial Heritage to use it there, just be willing to spend a Domain Spell slot 1 level higher (and even then it's still weapons-grade cheese, although since in this case you will getting it through Eldritch Heritage + Improved Eldritch Heritage and thus having to take the usually useless Skill Focus (Disguise), I would say that in this case it's Gorgonzola rather than Limburger).

Oh, and by the way, Expanded Arcana explicitly DOES work with Oracles (and thus presumably other spontaneous divine casters), so they can also use Paragon Surge to cheese in their entire spell list little bits at a time.

Further note: If you are a Magus, you can also use Tactical Adaptation, which is also at base a 1 minute/level Transmutation spell, to gain a Combat Feat that is different for each day from any you got with Paragon Surge, so you can get 2 different Combat Feats in the same day (and have them for a long time if you are high enough level with the 3rd level Shapechanger Sorcerer Bloodline Power -- this is only a Gorgonzola-level combination, but again this should probably be made into an Enchantment spell).

Liberty's Edge

UnArcaneElection wrote:
andreww wrote:
Ginsu23 wrote:
don't forget that this spell gives you potentially all the magic item crafting feats. Since you can only craft a single item at a time anyway, you would just paragon surge-craft wondrous items one day, then paragon surge-forge ring the next day. before you ask, notice that the spell says nothing about ignoring feat prerequisites, so you would still need to meet those. no reliquary arms and shield for you. lol.
The spell lasts 1 minute per level, crafting takes ever so slightly longer than that.
. . . . Unless you have the Shapechanger Sorcerer Bloodline

Which didn't exist at the time the comment you replied to was made.


I wish there were some kind of Thread Divination, that allowed you to see the conclusion of threads in the future. But no, all we got is Thread Necromancy. :(


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tbh, I think Guides (and mini-guides), especially good ones like this, can be exempt from "necro" status. This is useful info even though it was started 9 years ago.


I do like me some Paragon Surge... especially with Warsighted Oracles, and Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerers.

51 to 69 of 69 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / The Mini Guide to Paragon Surge All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.