The Mini Guide to Paragon Surge


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The Mini Guide to Paragon Surge

So, what is Paragon Surge and why does it deserve a guide all to itself?

Well it’s a Half Elf spell from the Advanced Race Guide. That means its available to Half Elves and Humans who pick the Racial Heritage feat. It’s a level 3 spell for Sorcerers, Wizards, Witches, Clerics/Oracles and Alchemists and Level 4 for the Paladin and Magus.

What does it do?

Well it’s a personal only spell that lasts for 1 minute per level. It gives you +2 enhancement bonus to Int and Dex. Not particularly great but still handy. It is a Polymorph spell but unlike other such spells you explicitly keep your gear and any Ex or Su class abilities. However you can only be affected by one at a time so subsequent castings will overwrite themselves.

The final benefit is the biggie, you gain access to any one feat for which you qualify. Why is this such a good thing? Well, lets take a look at some of the feats you might want to pick up:

Expanded Arcana

This is the first and biggest game changing feat you might want to take with Paragon Surge. The requirements are 1st Caster Level and having a limited list of spells known. Note that despite having the word Arcana in the title it is available to all spontaneous casters. The feat gives you an extra spell known of the highest level you can cast or two spells of one level lower or less.

In effect this gives Oracles and Sorcerers access to their entire spell list for the cost of one third level spell. Human Oracles and Sorcerers are already able to cover most of their immediate combat needs given their extra spells known but this single spell now allows them access to all of the more niche spells that prepared casters might use after a day of rest.

To give some examples. How about having access to all of the divination spells? While you might pick up two or three divinations few spontaneous casters are going to have Clairvoyance, Scrying, Contact Other Plane, Prying Eyes and True Seeing on their list of spells known. Now you don’t have to! Want to indulge in Planar Binding shenanigans but don’t want to be stuck with Magic Circle and Dimensional Anchor, then don’t worry about it! Ambushed by a Red Dragon and need to get some defences up then grab Communal Resist Energy! Planning a trip underground, Communal Dark Vision. Have you spotted a great spell that you would love to use but it’s in the newly released splat book. Now you don’t have to wait for a level up, just grab it when needed.

Really the possibilities are nearly endless

Skill Training/Focus

Need to be able to access a skill which is trained only or really need a big bonus to an existing skill to convince the King, break into the Vault or swim across the icy cold undergrounds river. Well this will greatly improve your odds to do so.

Extra Whatever

Need more Channels, Rage, Bardic Performance, Bombs etc. Now you can for the low cost of a level 3 spell slot. When the spell ends your phantom bonus uses go away as well so make sure to use them while the spell is in effect.

Metamagic Feats

Metamagic Feats are great for Sorcerers and Oracles but you have limited numbers of Feats available. You are almost certainly picking some but they are liable to be some combination of Persistent, Quicken and Dazing together with one or two others. Now however lots of narrower options are available. Want to extend all of your long duration buffs at the start of the day but don’t want to buy Extend Spell; facing enemies with high SR then grab Piercing Spell; fighting Ghosts then grab Ectoplasmic Spell; need to capture rather than kill your enemies then Merciful Spell; are your allies all mixed up with your enemies then Selective Spell; do you have a lot of fire spells but are facing Fire Giants, grab Elemental Spell (Cold)

Now you may well have some of these already but you aren't likely to have all of them. Now you dont need to.

Preferred Spell

This is a great Feat for both Wizards and Clerics that want the benefit of spontaneous casting while keeping the strength of prepared casting. Normally you would pick stuff which is generically helpful, Summons, Haste, an Evocation for use with Dazing etc. This lets you grab more specialist stuff as and when needed.

Spell Perfection

This is probably the most easily abused caster feat produced so far. It lets you take one spell and make it virtually unresistable pushing you into the realms of 3.0 Incantatrix for that spell. Paragon Surge doesn’t say you cannot take a Feat you already have although it’s unclear what the effect of choosing a feat you already have would be.

Eldritch Heritage

OK a lot of the 1st level arcana powers are rubbish but here you potentially have access to all of them. You do need Skill Focus in the class skill but if doing this from Half Elf you get one of those automatically. If going from Human then you can trade in your bonus feat for three Skill Focus feats.

Some useful options with just Eldritch Heritage include:

Arcane - a short duration Familiar isnt that much use but Arcane Bond effectively lets you trade a level 3 spell slot for a free spontaneous use of any spell you know. This effectively turns all of your Level 3 (or higher) spell slots into your highest level spell slot provided you are willing to take the action to cast Paragon Surge.

Destiny - poke your preferred murderous archer type with your Destiny Finger and watch them annihilate enemies.

Imperious Human - gain some class skills and a potentially large bonus on using them

Rakshasa - a chunky Bluff bonus combined with a way of avoiding megical lie detection

Sanguine - a rather unplesant way of regaining (3+Cha mod)d6 HP

At this level the rest aren't much to write home about being mostly a bunch of rather poor ray effects or touch attacks. You are better off using a proper ability from your class than cherry picking them.

If you are using the Eldritch Heritage line then you can use Paragon Surge to grab the next in the line if you qualify for it, perhaps if you haven’t had the chance to pick it yet. Level 11 is probably a bit of a crunch level where you are probably looking hard at Quicken as well as Improved Eldritch heritage.

Conclusion

Paragon Surge is an incredibly powerful spell. Ultimately I think it is better for spontaneous casters than prepared ones as effectively giving those characters access to their entire spell list, albeit at a cost, seriously reduces the impact of having such a limited number of spells known.


I don't think you can get a familiar...it still takes 24 hours and 100 gp to create, pretty sure.

That said, Arcane bloodline is GREAT for a different reason. Check out the level 9 power: gain sorc/wiz spells known of any level you can cast! Slap that on an Oracle, and between that and Expanded Arcana, he now has access to the entire sorc/wiz and cleric/oracle spell lists!

Yeah, you need to actually permanently learn regular Eldritch Heritage and gain a familiar in order to access Imp. EH. I get that's so painful, woe is you, etc... :p


Clerics of the right domain/oracles of the right mystery (or who UMD a Ring of Revelation)/anyone that took Eldritch Heritage: Sylvan when their GM OKed and ran/Paladins (though a bit of a waste for Paladins at their higher level and fewer spells) that get animal companions can Share Spells this to their AC, which has some uses. It's not a bad choice for a Summoner that has some method of grabbing out of class spells (PF is very open on this. EH:Arcane and Ring of Spell Knowledge are the two that come to mind that don't require a race or prc) to Share Spells.

Alchemists with Infusion can give this to other Half-Elfs in the party.


Nice mini-guide.

So many options, thanks for highlighting them!

Dark Archive

How about the Additional Traits feat?


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That there's an actual guide to a non-Core spell like this one is a wonderful argument for it being overpowered. Good job with the guide/argument.


Jadeite wrote:
How about the Additional Traits feat?

It brings with it some interesting options but a number of them are traits you will want to have available all of the time such as Reactionary, Magical Lineage, Save boosters etc.

It is actually a slightly better option for gaining trained skills than Skill Training as most traits give the skill and a small bonus using it.


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Cheapy wrote:
That there's an actual guide to a non-Core spell like this one is a wonderful argument for it being overpowered. Good job with the guide/argument.

I dont think there is any argument. I would be hard pressed to even consider using any other race than Human how for a Sorcerer or Oracle, and I include Enchantment DC Boosting Kitsune Sorcerers. I dont think any other ability can come close to matching gaining access to your entire spell list.

You might not pick this at level 6 due to the low number of level 3 slots available and the desirability of Haste but by level 8 theres no reason not to have it.


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My Rules Fu is weak, but it seems legal to me.

But what dm in his right mind would let anyone do this?


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sunbeam wrote:

My Rules Fu is weak, but it seems legal to me.

But what dm in his right mind would let anyone do this?

PFS?


You know as written, if you went Eldritch Heritage - Arcane you are better off never taking Improved Eldritch Heritage. If you did it would "lock" you in to 3 spells.

If you don't take it, you are in a better position.

You know they are going to errata this spell.

Sometime.


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sunbeam wrote:

You know as written, if you went Eldritch Heritage - Arcane you are better off never taking Improved Eldritch Heritage. If you did it would "lock" you in to 3 spells.

If you don't take it, you are in a better position.

Do you ever get the feeling that people don't even read your posts?

(-_-)


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This is stupid. First, it (the spell) may not break the "fourth wall", But it brushes up against it uncomfortably. Second it appears to be designed to enable all sorts silly shenanigans.

The worst thing about it is that this spell is going to age like fine munchkin wine as more books and feats are published. So GMs beware! if you allow this spell now it may get worse later (and harder to ban, having already been in play).

Silver Crusade

Racial Heritage pre-req says only human, so can you take It as a half-elf?.


Blue Minotaur wrote:

Racial Heritage pre-req says only human, so can you take It as a half-elf?.

Half Elves dont need to take Racial Heritage as it is a Half Elf only spell. Humans take the feat to be able to access the spell.


Add in Aasimar with scion of humanity.


Anither handy combination especially for Wizards. The Magambyan Arcanist, at level 4, can spontaneously cast any spell they have mastered with Spell Mastery. You can take Spell Mastery more than once so welcome to getting access to any spell in your spell book spontaneously.

You can only do this a few times per day but its not a bad little combo.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Another handy trick with wizards and this spell. Use the Multimorph discovery to switch out the feat for the spell as needed.


sunbeam wrote:

You know they are going to errata this spell.

Sometime.

It has been 18 months since this post and no sign of any erratta yet although Paragon Surge is deperately in need of one.


Cheapy wrote:
That there's an actual guide to a non-Core spell like this one is a wonderful argument for it being overpowered. Good job with the guide/argument.

Which unless I miss my guess is the reason the author wrote the "guide".


Yeah, this spell is in Eidolon pounce territory for me. I try really hard to stick to RAW, but this spell and the ability of Eidolons to get pounce at level 1 are such good options that you really have to want to gimp yourself to not take them. So if I run a game those 2 specific things simply DO NOT EXIST. I wouldn't feel right springing them on PCs and they throw off game balance so much that they become prime considerations in which class best reflects a concept.


Pretty much although I feel the same way about the Human Sorcerer/Oracle FCB. I find it very hard to justify taking a race other than Human, Half Elf or Half Orc for either class as extra spells known is simply incredibly good for a class with limited spells known.

I dont see it as game breaking in the same way that Paragon Surge is but it does distort any sort of balance between different racial options.

Paragon Surge however just needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and "dealt with" Old Yellow style.


I hear you on the FCB spells known, but I think it is modeling something well. I think that in-setting Humans are supposed to be the most versatile race, and all the FCB spells known reflect that. Elves make the best wizards, Gnomes make the best illusionists and Humans have the most tricks up their sleeves. I feel that they lost sight of this with Dwarves and Halflings but I see what they were going for. I have no problem with Humans and Half-Humans being top of the heap in spontaneous spellcasting.


andreww wrote:


I dont see it as game breaking in the same way that Paragon Surge is but it does distort any sort of balance between different racial options.

Paragon Surge however just needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and "dealt with" Old Yellow style.

Well since you are the original author of the guide, and you just clarified your views here. It seems like your whole "guide" was just a thinly veiled attempt to get the spell nerfed.

Sadly I am not surprised.


And stuff like this is why if my players ever learn that Paragon surge exists I will tell them it is banned, lol. I am a bit of a powergamer and even I pretend this spell doesn't exist.


Matrix Dragon wrote:
And stuff like this is why if my players ever learn that Paragon surge exists I will tell them it is banned, lol. I am a bit of a powergamer and even I pretend this spell doesn't exist.

Which is a perfectly valid option to have.

Calling for a nerf (while in my opinion not deserved though others disagree) is also perfectly fine.

What I dislike is the chicanery involved in writing it up as a "guide" when the intent is to get it nerfed. I expect that sort of duplicity from politicans. You know the ones who crusade against guns while using there Philipino Terorrist connections to run guns and rocket launchers....

Paragon Surge is powerful, without a doubt. It also has a cost which most peopel forget. You have to cast a spell first "paragon Surge" and then the spell you want so you are taking two rounds to get the spell done. For buffing the only cost is the extra spell, but for in combat you are loosing out on the action economy.

Now at higher level you CAN quicken the paragon surge, but now you are spending a 7th level slot to do this insead of a third, and you are STILL behind on the action economy as your compatriot may have qucikened a spell and cast another spell.

Is it powerful, yes absolutley. Have I used it in a game? Yes. I found that I was running out of spells when I used it but it did open up lots of options.

Dark Archive

Also, with extra hex you can get a specialized hex on the go. Or magus arcana.


Ughbash wrote:

What I dislike is the chicanery involved in writing it up as a "guide" when the intent is to get it nerfed. I expect that sort of duplicity from politicans. You know the ones who crusade against guns while using there Philipino Terorrist connections to run guns and rocket launchers....

Paragon Surge is powerful, without a doubt. It also has a cost which most peopel forget. You have to cast a spell first "paragon Surge" and then the spell you want so you are taking two rounds to get the spell done. For buffing the only cost is the extra spell, but for in combat you are loosing out on the action economy.

Now at higher level you CAN quicken the paragon surge, but now you are spending a 7th level slot to do this insead of a third, and you are STILL behind on the action economy as your compatriot may have qucikened a spell and cast another spell.

Is it powerful, yes absolutley. Have I used it in a game? Yes. I found that I was running out of spells when I used it but it did open up lots of options.

I certainly did not write this as a way to get it banned or nerfed. I wrote it because I was interested in what was actually possible to do with the spell.

The power of paragon surge is clearly not its in combat ability but the ability to obtain whatever niche spell is needed in any particular situation.

I was convinced when I wrote it that it was strong. Having used it in a lot of testing since then the versatility it offers in almost incomparable to any other option.


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There is a saying "In Theory, there is no differnce between Practice and Theory. In Practice there is."

At what level range is it problematic?

At 6th level when you first get it you have limited 3rd level spells, do you really want to use 2 of your highest level spells to cast one third level spell? Casting it one round later IS faster then a wizard taking 15 min (or 1 min depending on build) to fill a blank slot. BTW with wizards I ALMOST ALWAYS leave a blank spell slot at each level so I can fill it later.

Which though is better, using 2 third level spells and 2 rounds, or using one third level spell and 15 minutes? Since you have stated out of combat the edge here goes to the wizard though the sorceror CAN fill in. (Most of my wizards spend a lot of their wealth on expanding their spell book).

How about for Buffing, again the wizard can simply Memorize the spells he wants where the sorcerer may need ot cast this 2 or 3 times and thus start the day with 3 less spells. Advantage Wizard (though not by as much as usual).

Where this gives the biggest advantage is in combat and at higher level. While you can be perfectly prepared, you are again burning resources (spells) and are putting yourself behind on the Action Economy.

You can not use it to its fullest until 14 (when you can quicken it).

I played this in a "Build a level 20" one off campaign. Yes it was very useful, I built my character around it (including spell perfection of it). This let me any round be able to have just the right spell. What I found actually using it in this game (about 4 or 5 sessions) was that I had GREAT versatility, at the cost of not being able to nova. I also found I was using a LOT of 3rd level spells.

Btw using Spell perfection for this which let me qiucken it for free also had the cost of not allowing me to Perfect other spells which would have gotten more benfit from Perfection due to doubling bonuses. Another tradeoff.

Is it strong? Yes.
Is it Overpowered? Not in my opinion, but then we genrally play a higher powered game (25 point build).


andreww wrote:


I certainly did not write this as a way to get it banned or nerfed. I wrote it because I was interested in what was actually possible to do with the spell.

The power of paragon surge is clearly not its in combat ability but the ability to obtain whatever niche spell is needed in any particular situation.

I was convinced when I wrote it that it was strong. Having used it in a lot of testing since then the versatility it offers in almost incomparable to any other option.

Well when you start off with a "guide" and then later post:

andreww wrote:


Paragon Surge however just needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and "dealt with" Old Yellow style.

It certainly appears like you wanted it nerfed.


Andreww is correct about this spell.

Incidentally the idea about using it for Spell Perfection is brilliant. That just plain never occurred to me. Also the Preferred Spell feat. I had to look that up, had no idea there was a feat like that.

I will say something came to mind for me when reading this. Do spell like abilities "recharge" when you rest?

For example say you use Paragon Surge to get the 1st level Destined Bloodline heritage.

That's nice, but why assume the powers are immediately available for use? Seems to me you could make a case that you need to rest for the night to "charge" them, which is impossible with the duraion.

Or take an example of someone who has the first two Stormborn Sorcerer heritage feats, and uses Paragon Surge to get Ride the Lightning. Does this mean they should be able to use this effect every time they use Paragon Surge to get the 3rd feat?

Just saying Paragon Surge is a polymorph effect, but if you use it to take a feat... well what exactly does that mean anyway if you use it to get a spell like ability?

Sczarni

I had been wondering what use exactly a prepared caster gets out of this when they can't pick Expanded Arcana. There's some good advice here, and some good uses.

I like the idea of an all-half-elf party using their Alchemist to hand out Infusions of this. What feat would a Half-Elf Fighter want to grab? What about a Half-Elf Cavalier-- could he drink an Infusion of Paragon Surge, get a new teamwork feat, then grant it to everybody via Tactician?

Speaking of teamwork feats, it's a shame Inquisitors don't get this on their list. They would love an extra teamwork feat of choice on command, and also have quite a few "niche" spells on their list that aren't worth burning a spell known on, but would be nice to grab with Expanded Arcana.


Ughbash wrote:
andreww wrote:


I certainly did not write this as a way to get it banned or nerfed. I wrote it because I was interested in what was actually possible to do with the spell.

The power of paragon surge is clearly not its in combat ability but the ability to obtain whatever niche spell is needed in any particular situation.

I was convinced when I wrote it that it was strong. Having used it in a lot of testing since then the versatility it offers in almost incomparable to any other option.

Well when you start off with a "guide" and then later post:

andreww wrote:


Paragon Surge however just needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and "dealt with" Old Yellow style.
It certainly appears like you wanted it nerfed.

You might want to look at the dates of the two posts.


Ughbash wrote:
At what level range is it problematic?

For sorcerers and oracles I would peg the problematic range as starting at level 10. At this point you have more than enough level 3 spells that you don't mind using up some to grab something situational without really affecting your combat ability. 5th level spells is also the point at which much of the more game changing stuff begins to appear, Teleport, Plane Shift, Lesser Planar Binding, Fabricate, Raise Dead. At this point complete access to your spell list is immensely powerful. Of course at level 11 the Oracle goes crazy with complete access to both lists.

This spell was a mistake, it should be nerfed and I say that as someone who has made extensive use of it.


andreww wrote:
Ughbash wrote:
andreww wrote:


I certainly did not write this as a way to get it banned or nerfed. I wrote it because I was interested in what was actually possible to do with the spell.

The power of paragon surge is clearly not its in combat ability but the ability to obtain whatever niche spell is needed in any particular situation.

I was convinced when I wrote it that it was strong. Having used it in a lot of testing since then the versatility it offers in almost incomparable to any other option.

Well when you start off with a "guide" and then later post:

andreww wrote:


Paragon Surge however just needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and "dealt with" Old Yellow style.
It certainly appears like you wanted it nerfed.
You might want to look at the dates of the two posts.

My apologies I did not realize that the thread had been necroed and read it in one day. Given the time lag, I can see you starting out with one view nad later drastically changing it. So please accept my apology for saying it was deceitful and that the entire guide was written with the idea of getting it nerfed.

I still disagree with it needing to be nerfed for the reasons I stated, but then again our group does tend to run a more high powered game.


I love this spell in theory, but in practice I wouldn't even try it. I know that 90% of the games I get to play in as opposed to GM, we never hit level 9. I don't know too many GMs who can handle the complete flip flop in NPC relations that happens between level 5 and 10. Before level 5 the PCs are junior heroes, a cut above the guards. By level ten the PCs are Big Damn Heroes, a cut above the nobility. I simply don't enjoy being totally nerfed by having all the NPCs stay 3 levels above us, when it defies all logic.


andreww wrote:

The Mini Guide to Paragon Surge

So, what is Paragon Surge and why does it deserve a guide all to itself?

Well it’s a Half Elf spell from the Advanced Race Guide. That means its available to Half Elves and Humans who pick the Racial Heritage feat. It’s a level 3 spell for Sorcerers, Wizards, Witches, Clerics/Oracles and Alchemists and Level 4 for the Paladin and Magus.

What does it do?

Well it’s a personal only spell that lasts for 1 minute per level. It gives you +2 enhancement bonus to Int and Dex. Not particularly great but still handy. It is a Polymorph spell but unlike other such spells you explicitly keep your gear and any Ex or Su class abilities. However you can only be affected by one at a time so subsequent castings will overwrite themselves.

The final benefit is the biggie, you gain access to any one feat for which you qualify. Why is this such a good thing? Well, lets take a look at some of the feats you might want to pick up:

Expanded Arcana

This is the first and biggest game changing feat you might want to take with Paragon Surge. The requirements are 1st Caster Level and having a limited list of spells known. Note that despite having the word Arcana in the title it is available to all spontaneous casters. The feat gives you an extra spell known of the highest level you can cast or two spells of one level lower or less.

In effect this gives Oracles and Sorcerers access to their entire spell list for the cost of one third level spell. Human Oracles and Sorcerers are already able to cover most of their immediate combat needs given their extra spells known but this single spell now allows them access to all of the more niche spells that prepared casters might use after a day of rest.

To give some examples. How about having access to all of the divination spells? While you might pick up two or three divinations few spontaneous...

What happens to the bonus spells known from expanded arcana, once Paragon Surge goes away?


mysticbelmont wrote:
What happens to the bonus spells known from expanded arcana, once Paragon Surge goes away?

You lose access to them when the spell duration expires (or if the spell is dispelled).


Are wrote:
mysticbelmont wrote:
What happens to the bonus spells known from expanded arcana, once Paragon Surge goes away?

You lose access to them when the spell duration expires (or if the spell is dispelled).

How so? I don't see anywhere in the spell where it states you lose the spell known.


mysticbelmont wrote:
Are wrote:
mysticbelmont wrote:
What happens to the bonus spells known from expanded arcana, once Paragon Surge goes away?

You lose access to them when the spell duration expires (or if the spell is dispelled).

How so? I don't see anywhere in the spell where it states you lose the spell known.

The spell says you gain the feat for the duration of the spell. You only have the new spells known while you have the feat. Thus, you lose access to the new spells known when the spell's duration expires.


andreww wrote:
The Mini Guide to Paragon Surge

Don't forget that for the Magus, you can take "Extra Arcana" as the bonus feat. Plus if you are a Hexcrafting Magus (or Witch), you can take "Extra Hex". Both of which are extremely powerful options to have at your fingertips.


Are wrote:

The spell says you gain the feat for the duration of the spell. You only have the new spells known while you have the feat. Thus, you lose access to the new spells known when the spell's duration expires.

Exactly this. Note however that the effect of the spells does not go away. If I am a level 12 sorcerer with Paragon Surge and I use it in the morning to gain access to Overland Flight and Greater Darkvision and cast both of them using my normal Rod of Extend Spell they both continue to function for the next 24 hours even though I will no longer be able to cast either of them in 12 minutes.


Cubic Prism wrote:
andreww wrote:
The Mini Guide to Paragon Surge
Don't forget that for the Magus, you can take "Extra Arcana" as the bonus feat. Plus if you are a Hexcrafting Magus (or Witch), you can take "Extra Hex". Both of which are extremely powerful options to have at your fingertips.

Indeed, the same thing also applies for Oracles and Extra Revelation.


Paragon Surge has been FAQd.


Squirrel_Dude wrote:
Paragon Surge has been FAQd.

Honestly... that's pretty fair. Well, at least you can still have whatever spells you want in your downtime! And hey 1-3 arcane spells you pick a day remains fantastic. Don't forget to combine with a Fast Time Demiplane to double your options in a "day".


Yeah it goes from SSS Broken tier to just A+, which is a great nerf imo


That's not FAQ. That's errata. Hacks...


Buri wrote:
That's not FAQ. That's errata. Hacks...

Pretty much this. Still an extremely useful spell.

One area that still isnt entirely clear. When it refers to the choice being fixed do they mean the particular feat or subsidiary choices such as Expanded Arcana.


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You cast paragon surge. You choose expanded arcana. You use it to get magic missile.

Every time you cast paragon surge today, you get magic missile.


i like it...personally i hated seeing every spontaneous caster build turn into a halfelf...

this is still nice and flexible....but not mandatory now....right where it should be

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