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Can Half-Elves take Elven Archetypes or visa versa?
All racial archetypes are lock to the race
Half-elves can not take Elven or Human Archetypes,
and they can not take Half-elf archetypes.
Thanks for the quick replies. I was getting confused with the elf blood ability which let's the half-elf function as an elf or human in regards do anything dealing with race.
Any feats to allow this?
The Adopted trait will let you take anything that the adopting race gets, with the exception of abilities that build off of a racial ability - you couldn't take a feat that enhances darkvision just because you were adopted by dwarves, for example.
If you're talking class archetypes from the ARG they most certainly can.
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Actually, what the ARG says is
" Typically, only members of the section’s race can take the listed archetype, bloodline, or order, though such options rarely interact with the racial traits or alternate racial traits of that race."
Typically =/= Always, so if your GM is fine you could take archetypes from other races.
Half-Elfs can't take Half-Elf archtypes?All racial archetypes are lock to the race
Half-elves can not take Elven or Human Archetypes,
and they can not take Half-elf archetypes.
Sorry poor wording on my part
Half-elves can not take Elven or Human Archetypes,
and Elves or Humans can not take Half-elf archetypes.
There really is no RAW reason to prevent a half-elf from taking either a elf or human architype,especially if the character takes either the elf-raised or human-raised racial subtype as apporpriate. The bottom line is allow the player to have fun without disrupting the game. If a player wants a half-elf magus with the spell dancer (ARG) and spire defender (Inner Sea Magic) architypes and is willing to select the elf-raised racial subtype I would definitely allow it.
Typically =/= Always, so if your GM is fine you could take archetypes from other races.
I really don't like it when they do that. The whole "if your GM approves you may do X" is really bad when it comes to rules especially with RPGs where houserules are so common since if my GM approves I can play a play an evil paladin that smites other evils because he thinks that is an even more evil thing to do as they wouldn't expect it.
Not to take it out on you I just don't like it when stuff is worded that way.
A bunch of the racial archetypes don't make sense when it comes to restrictions anyway and come off as arbitrary limitations. Any racial archetype that isn't based on using racial abilities with the class should really just be a regular one
The Racial archetypes stop being racial archetypes if any half blooded schmoe can take them. The half blood races have their own archetypes, they've got no reason to poach.Do the rules actually say that though?
They do in a way
Typically, only members of the section’s
race can take the listed archetype, bloodline, or order,
though such options rarely interact with the racial traits
or alternate racial traits of that race.
this question has been asked before in other threads and the official response is;
No, Every race is restricted to their archetypes and can not take even their pure blooded parent's racial archetypes.
Even if it's in the Ask JJ thread.
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ESPECIALLY if it's "Ask JJ" thread, because what James posts there are his personal opinions, not official Paizo staff position. Several times his statements were overridden by Jason in the past, or people pointed out that his answers conflict with other rules.
I think it's super cool that he takes his time off to help people with their (often very ravingdorkian) rules inquiries, but I also prefer to keep his "that's what I would do in my games, if you want official answers the rules design team is ---> that way" disclaimer in my head while reading them.
I have raised the FAQ flag on this debate. I still think it is possible for a half-elf to take either a elf or human architype and a haf-orc to take either a human or orc architype. Maybe a developer will stop by and settle this.
No. Half elves cannot take archetypes for the Elf, or Human.
They cannot take Elf or Human only feats.A Human, with the Racial Heritage feat can.
I agree with you on the subject of racial feats, but I am missing the connection to the discussion on racial architypes.
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Half Elves only count as Elves and Humans for spells and effects, not prerequisites.
A Racial archetype is not a spell or effect. To take Elven or Human racial archetypes, you need a DM to houserule it.
You do not meet the prerequisites.
Much like a Sword of Valor Paladin must worship Iomedae, you must be the required race.
Blackbloodtroll, I see where you are coming from. It all comes down to how a GM interpretes "Typically, only members of the section’s
race can take the listed archetype, bloodline, or order,
though such options rarely interact with the racial traits
or alternate racial traits of that race." (ARG, page 9) I would have been better if they had said, "Only members of the section’s
race can take the listed archetype, bloodline, or order,
though such options rarely interact with the racial traits
or alternate racial traits of that race." This would have have been crystal clear.
None of the archetypes I've seen have prerequisites similar to prestige classes stating you have to be a certain race to take it. If you read each class there's a flavor paragraph followed by the class entry. Nothing I've seen in the entries are specific to race either. For example, the bonded witch doesn't make reference anywhere in itself to anything that only the half elf could provide.
There are all sorts of restrictions for classes, not just Prestige Classes.
Alignment, Race, Deity, are such examples.
These restrictions are not exclusive to Prestige Classes.
You won't find race listed on any of the new ARG archetypes.
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Check out the ARG FAQ.
Racial Heritage most certainly allows you to take racial archetypes.
See here.
You won't find race listed on any of the new ARG archetypes.There are all sorts of restrictions for classes, not just Prestige Classes.
Alignment, Race, Deity, are such examples.
These restrictions are not exclusive to Prestige Classes.
You do, Pages 9, 83, and 183 lists the races with their archetypes.
BOOM! Headshot!
That FAQ is covering the Advanced Players Guide,
not Advanced Race Guide.
So we are waiting on the Advanced Race Guide FAQ
It does answer the racial heritage feat question,
but not the [b]"can a half-breed take it's parents racial archetype"[b] question,
though am in the
Half-elves can not take Elven or Human Archetypes,
and Elves or Humans can not take Half-elf archetypes.
Group
You won't find race listed on any of the new ARG archetypes.There are all sorts of restrictions for classes, not just Prestige Classes.
Alignment, Race, Deity, are such examples.
These restrictions are not exclusive to Prestige Classes.
You do, Pages 9, 83, and 183 lists the races with their archetypes.
Quick references aren't requirements. If they were requirements they'd be listed in the class just like every other class requirement is in their respective class.
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There is a reason that feats exist that have "Orc or Half-Orc" as a prerequisite.
There is a reason Half Elves/Orcs cannot take Human, Orc, or Elf favored class bonuses(see here).
None of these are spells, or effects.
If this is for home play: check with your DM cause with home play almost anything can go. My personal belief is that the races are the exemplars of that Archetype, others may belong to it but be few and far between. This is also known as "Don't let the rules get in the way of the game"
If this is for PFS: Unless there is a FAQ which specifically says you can then it might be best to match race and archetype exactly rather than trying to run a half-blood with a parent race's archetype.
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Are you arguing that feats, traits, and classes are effects?Racial heritage seems to think so. Specifically lists feats and traits as examples of "effects linked to race".
I've always assumed that the purpose of those racial traits was exactly that: to allow you to take elven/human/orcish feats and later traits.
I know it's not any kind of proof, but Herolab seems to think so too.
It provides something more. It does not define them as effects.
Also, see Scion of Humanity Aasimar alternate racial trait.
It's a good example.
Also, see the APG FAQ linked above.
It takes a feat to use other then your racial abilites the half-elf has the
"Half-Drow Paragon"
Prerequisites: Drow-blooded and drow magic racial traits, half-elf.
Benefit: You count as a drow for any effects that relate to race. Furthermore, the spell-like abilities granted to you by your drow magic racial trait count as drow spell-like abilities for the purposes of any feat prerequisites.
"Elven Spirit"
Prerequisite: Half-elf.
Benefit: You possess the elven magic racial trait of the elves, granting you a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. In addition, you receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft checks made to identify the properties of magic items. Alternatively, you can instead gain any one racial trait that elves can exchange for the elven magic racial trait.
"Human Spirit"
Prerequisite: Half-elf.
Benefit: You receive 1 bonus skill rank. Whenever you gain another Hit Die, you gain an additional skill rank. You cannot gain more than four skill ranks in this way.
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Okay.
Why do some feats need "half-orc or orc" as a prerequisite, if half-orc can already take them?
Why can't halfbreeds take human/elf/orc favored class bonuses?
Why do some similar abilities call out meeting feat prerequisites in addition to effects, while others don't?
Why must we have two races that count as three different races for everything?
Where is it stated that feat and class prerequisites are "effects'?