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This must be one of the great annoyances of GMs, I'm sure. I was hoping for feedback on this from other GMs.
The group I GM all have flying capabilities. Whenever they encounter a creature that does not have flying, they merely soar into the air, cast abundant ammunition on themselves, and pelt the poor defenseless, helpless enemies until they die.
This works especially well when there are no hiding places and the PCs have all the time in the world.
I usually simply say forget it, give them Xp and say the creatures die without going through the motions.
Granted, fixes to these situations are easy:
1. give the enemy flying
2. make hiding spots
3. make encounters with low ceilings, etc.
Fixes basically amount to removing the flying advantage of the PCs or removing their line of sight.
But what to do in cases where taking away flight would be punishing the PCs?
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Are you aware that you're in the PFS section of the boards? Because the "fixes" you describe (i.e., modifying the encounters) would be considered cheating if done in organized play.
In any case (organized play or not), keep in mind that in order to fly in every fight, each PC is either a caster who's blowing ALL of their third-level spells on fly, or else a martial who's blowing thousands upon thousands of gold per level on potions of fly.
If they're going to pay that kind of a price, it damn well better be worth it. :/
Give them more indoor encounters. Or some appropriate flying encounters. They're not the only things in the air after all.
And give them scenarios where "they don't have all the time in the world".
This.
Also, regarding the last: time crunches are your friend here -- your players having to decide between casting fly and, say, fireball within a single round can be a Good Thing [tm] for your game.
Dispel Magic while they're high enough to take fall damage. That should teach them.
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The feather fall effect is why you need to stun them or knock them unconscious instead. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe falling is the result.I see no reason why stun/unconscious would effect the Fly spell. What leads you to beleave it would?
Because they cannot take the action required to stay aloft.
Check : You generally need only make a Fly check when you are attempting a complex maneuver. Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.
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Mergy is referring to the Witch Hex, Feather Fall spell, or some other ways of getting feather fall besides the Fly spell or Ring of Feather Fall. As those other ways require you to be conscious to activate them... however, the Fly spell & a Ring of Feather Fall do NOT require you to activate them, they automatically trigger.
As for the OP: since you posted in the PFS GM section I will assume you mean you are having this problem in PFS scenarios, at which point I suggest you browse through scenarios and try and find ones that are much more challenging to your party... may I suggest "Drow of Darklands Pyramid" (tier 7-11) as gravity simply does not work and flying is more of a hindrance than a blessing in that scenario.
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Action
None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
Since Fly is not an action, the skill check to hover (DC 15) can be made even if stunned, although not if unconscious. Players under the fly spell have a minimum bonus to the Fly skill of +6 (+4 maneuverability, +2 for 1/2 minimum caster level)... which is a reasonable chance to hover.
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Mergy is referring to the Witch Hex, Feather Fall spell, or some other ways of getting feather fall besides the Fly spell or Ring of Feather Fall. As those other ways require you to be conscious to activate them... however, the Fly spell & a Ring of Feather Fall do NOT require you to activate them, they automatically trigger.
As for the OP: since you posted in the PFS GM section I will assume you mean you are having this problem in PFS scenarios, at which point I suggest you browse through scenarios and try and find ones that are much more challenging to your party... may I suggest "Drow of Darklands Pyramid" (tier 7-11) as gravity simply does not work and flying is more of a hindrance than a blessing in that scenario.
No, I was referring to the feather fall effect you get when your fly spell runs out or is dispelled.
I don't really think fly allows someone to hover while unconscious, but that's just me.
In one fantasy campaign, the most annoying thing (both mechanically and visually) for the GM was when we'd fly invisible holding hands everywhere. lol.
None of the enemies in any of these scenarios have ranged attacks? Of any form?
The first thing I would say is to play out every encounter, to its entirety, even if the monsters don't have ranged attacks.
Here's why:
A) the monsters aren't stupid, and will scatter or try to find cover until the players engage in melee. Most animals in real life will try to get away if you throw rocks at them, why wouldn't exposed monsters and NPCs flee from arrows?? If the players don't change their tactics, then they have no way to defeat hiding or scattered enemies that avoid playing the ranged combat game, and therefore you would have no reason to give them XP.
B) The players may get bored and decide to change tactics. If the PCs don't do a ton of damage at range, it will likely take them a while to whittle down the NPC's. Keep in mind that unless the PC has perfect manuevarability (which Fly and Overland Flight do not grant), or the Hover Feat (no PC is likely to have that), the PC has to make a fly check to hover. If they fail to hover, they fall (as per the fly skill rules). And UNLESS they hover, they cannot take full attack actions b/c they have to move.
If your players are going to "abuse" their flying abilities, don't just give them XP. They need to play out their encounters, earn their XP, and at the same time you should be playing your NPCs as they would actually react.
A major reason many of us GM is because we enjoy doing it. If you are at a point when you aren't enjoying it due to 1 specific thing the players are doing, you can either change how you run your encounters (see above), or talk to your players.
Good luck, and hopefully this will resolve itself in your next 1 or 2 sessions.
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Why was this thread moved? It was specifically based on difficulties within the PFS campaign.
Was it? Nothing in the OP suggests it (other than originally being posted in that section), and the ideas the OP came up with were not legal options for PFS.
Of course, we can't know for sure unless the OP comes back to this thread at some point and clarifies.
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Why was this thread moved? It was specifically based on difficulties within the PFS campaign.Was it? Nothing in the OP suggests it (other than originally being posted in that section), and the ideas the OP came up with were not legal options for PFS.
Of course, we can't know for sure unless the OP comes back to this thread at some point and clarifies.
You have a point. Well if it's not PFS, the answer is the first one, which is to change the encounters.
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A net or Tanglefoot bag should solve a problem for winged issues.
Otherwise I'd just have the enemies (as long as they are somewhat intelligent) move for cover. Can't shoot through roofs or anything. If that doesn't work then toss up a Fog Cloud. Simple spell that just gave all the enemies Concealment.
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Use counters to flying some of the time, but not all of the time. Let them have their easy fights so they don't feel flying is "wasted", but put in a few where it doesn't matter much to keep it interesting. The orcs with greatswords aren't as terrifying from the sky, but you can give them each a sling and some stones so that a long fight from the air still taxes the PCs some, even if it's easier. Also, abundant ammunition is a spell they have to expend, and they may be expending resources on flying too. If they adventure for longer than 15 mins each day, they might have wanted to save the resources for that strategy for something tougher than the 2 dire wolves they saw in the forest.
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Hmm and if this is PFS then they may have bigger issues...you have a very set amount of time to accomplish your goal. Dragging fights on by having enemies hide, take cover, and fall back only prolongs the inevitible. If they don't accomplish their goal within the time frame of a PFS session then their goal is considered a failure and they do not get their rewards.
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Well i should rename this thread "forum annoyance" as i seem to have indeed posted this in the wrong section- i saw "GM advice" and skipped right over PFS. My apologies.
It is a high level home game. Players have items to allow them to fly. We are fans of random encounters. Our encounters are level appropriate and they faced 4 jade colossi. On the open plains... not much a dm can do :-p
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There is a lot the GM can do. The first would be to run fewer random encounters and start planning them out more. Level appropriate doesn't always mean that it's party appropriate.
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Do a couple encounters that feature groups of enemies with a lot of ranged firepower. A warband of Hobgoblin Archers with composite longbows for example. Flying around with a lack of cover isn't necessarily tactically sound, "all the time", play off of this to your advantage and maybe you can spook them into a little more combat variety.
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Simply cast hold person and watch them fall and since your not dispeling it they wont get feather fall. correct me if i'm wrong but this should work
It is a high level home game. Players have items to allow them to fly. We are fans of random encounters. Our encounters are level appropriate and they faced 4 jade colossi. On the open plains... not much a dm can do :-p
Have you ever thought that their expenditure of resources that trivialize encounters so much that you plainly skip them... is so that you'll skip the encounters?
Just food for thought.