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Arcane Armor Expertise
At 2nd level, if a Hellknight signifer has the Arcane Armor Training feat, he gains Arcane Armor Expertise (Editor's Note: They probably meant Arcane Armor Mastery since there is no Arcane Armor Expertise feat) as a bonus feat.
At 5th level, the action required to use this feat changes from a swift action to an immediate action.
It is there a real advantage in the 5th level ability? can the Signifer cast a arcane spell in someone else turn? or in response to someone else action?
Let's compare what a Swift and Immediate Action does compared to one another, shall we?
Swift Action wrote: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items. Immediate Action wrote: Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.
The benefit of Swift V.S. Immediate is that, while yes you can only perform only one or the other per turn, the Immediate Action description says you can take that action at any point during the round. With that said, it is useful in applying a +4 AC buff spell before a creature hits to make them miss, or casting a debuff/dispel magic to render them unable to perform some acitons during their turn (after they expended some of their turn already), making their turn wasted.
Yes but, the ability only say you can use arcane armor Training/master as a imediate action it does not say you can cast in someone else turn.
Nicos wrote: Yes but, the ability only say you can use arcane armor Training/master as a imediate action it does not say you can cast in someone else turn.
Let's look at little deeper at the Immediate Action clause for spells:
Immediate Action wrote: Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time. A spell (or action) that has a casting time of 1 Immediate Action can be cast at any point during the round (assuming you still have access to a Swift Action for the round).
Thus, you can use Arcane Armor Training/Mastery as an Immediate Action.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Nicos wrote: Yes but, the ability only say you can use arcane armor Training/master as a imediate action it does not say you can cast in someone else turn.
Let's look at little deeper at the Immediate Action clause for spells:
Immediate Action wrote: Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time. A spell (or action) that has a casting time of 1 Immediate Action can be cast at any point during the round (assuming you still have access to a Swift Action for the round).
Thus, you can use Arcane Armor Training/Mastery as an Immediate Action. Ok you have a good example. There are others spells that can be casted as inmediate action?
Nicos wrote: Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Nicos wrote: Yes but, the ability only say you can use arcane armor Training/master as a imediate action it does not say you can cast in someone else turn.
Let's look at little deeper at the Immediate Action clause for spells:
Immediate Action wrote: Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time. A spell (or action) that has a casting time of 1 Immediate Action can be cast at any point during the round (assuming you still have access to a Swift Action for the round).
Thus, you can use Arcane Armor Training/Mastery as an Immediate Action. Ok you have a good example. There are others spells that can be casted as inmediate action? That I know off the top of my head? No, I do not. However, looking at the Spells Database, there are a few immediate action spells. The most common one that would be taken outside of Feather Fall would be Borrow Fortune (the Oracle spell), which allows a character to roll 2 D20's on anything that requires a D20 roll, and take the more favorable result. Afterward, the character must do the same as the previous for the next 2 instances, except they take the worse result.
This is an immediate action, because this spell can be used to redo an important saving throw, make a key attack of opportunity, and/or key spellcraft check during combat to identify an important spell that was cast by an enemy.
Since the spell's effects could be used with options and/or instances that require the immediate rolling of a D20 dice, it would make sense to make the spell an immediate action; but I digress.
Because the spell is an immediate action, it should be able to function at any point during the turn, and prime examples would be the ones that I listed above as for proper reasoning as to why a spell listed as an immediate action should thusly function as an immediate action.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Nicos wrote: Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Nicos wrote: Yes but, the ability only say you can use arcane armor Training/master as a imediate action it does not say you can cast in someone else turn.
Let's look at little deeper at the Immediate Action clause for spells:
Immediate Action wrote: Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time. A spell (or action) that has a casting time of 1 Immediate Action can be cast at any point during the round (assuming you still have access to a Swift Action for the round).
Thus, you can use Arcane Armor Training/Mastery as an Immediate Action. Ok you have a good example. There are others spells that can be casted as inmediate action? That I know off the top of my head? No, I do not. However, looking at the Spells Database, there are a few immediate action spells. The most common one that would be taken outside of Feather Fall would be Borrow Fortune (the Oracle spell), which allows a character to roll 2 D20's on anything that requires a D20 roll, and take the more favorable result. Afterward, the character must do the same as the previous for the next 2 instances, except they take the worse result.
This is an immediate action, because this spell can be used to redo an important saving throw, make a key attack of opportunity, and/or key spellcraft check during combat to identify an important spell that was cast by an enemy.
Since the spell's effects could be used with options and/or instances that require the immediate rolling of a D20 dice, it would make sense to make the spell an immediate action; but I digress.
Because the spell is an immediate action, it should be able to function at any point during the turn, and prime examples would be the ones that I listed above as for proper reasoning as to why a spell listed as an immediate action should thusly function as an immediate action. An oracle do not need that ability. I wonder if the DEv of the Signifer meaned Freeaction instead of inmediate.
Darksol, how exactly does your proposed benefit work? You can't take 2 immediate actions - casting Feather Fall (or other immediate action spell) is one, so you can't also use Arcane Armour Whatever as well ... (not to mention you can't take an immediate and a swift action - no quickened spells for you)
One Developer posted
Patrick Renie wrote: The miswording in the Hellknight signifer's Arcane Armor Expertise ability was an error that slipped through development; the first sentence of this ability should be changed to match the following: "At 2nd level, if a Hellknight signifer has the Arcane Armor Training feat, he gains Arcane Armor Mastery as a bonus feat."
As for the 5th-level benefit of making usage of the Arcane Armor Mastery feat an immediate action rather than a swift action, the strengths of this make themselves known during certain situations, such as, as Enaris pointed out, counterspelling or spell-duels.
Link to said post
I hope its a free action because as a immediate the only thing I can think of is to use it as part of a readied action.
As it is the class is far better for divine casters then arcane 1 feat or 3 or a splash class.
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