|
Bit of background:
I am fairly new to Pathfinder and Pathfinder Society (having played in about 6 games). While Ive run Living Greyhawk I have never been exposed to a 'mission within the adventure' style of game.
I wont mention the exact happening. In a recent game , one party member decided he really wanted item X from the npc. After some negotiation (which didnt go well), he tried a different tack and asked if we would help convince npc that it would be nice to give/sell X to the character.
None of us seemed particuarly interested in item X, My characters view being it was pretty but not worth writing home about.
This view though did not go down well with the player who shot the rest of us nasty glances.
Is this a common event in Pathfinder Society games? To me it almost seemed like the meta -game was rearing its head, indeed in a way he was shocked/annoyed that we wernt helping him get X from the npc.
|
|
In my experience, yes this is fairly normal. People usually cooperate at the game within a game to help everyone at the table get maximum prestige. Unless the mission is a "secret" one, then people have learned to have their characters "look away" for a bit. Yes, it's definitely metagaming, but it's what usually happens...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Co-operating on faction missions to help the people who'll be fighting side by side with you seems perfectly normal to me, unless they want you to do something you disagree with or there's a cost involved. Even if you don't know why they want a mcguffin, if you do them a favour now they may return it later. That's not metagaming, its roleplaying.
If a character refuses to help his comrades with small (inconsequential) favours then would you trust him to back you up in a fight? Would you trust him on watch? Would you want him negotiating for the party when he may not have the party's interests in mind? He's showing a lack of respect for the other characters, which will breed division and ill-will within the party.
|
I think the player missed his diplomacy check twice - first to do the mission alone - second to convince his comrades.
There never should be an expectation to get help if you fail yourself. If he failed in character to convince his comrades then indeed - it becomes meta-gaming. A player therefore shouldn't blame others.
I still remember the best times I helped fulfill someone else mission. This was when I got asked in character and didn't even notice that I had fulfilled someone else mission for him/her.
So my advice:
Players not doing the mission - be helpful to strange requests from others if they don't go against your character.
Players who do missions - don't expect others to fulfill your mission. After all - it is YOUR responsibility and not theirs. Be grateful if they help but don't hold grudges if they don't.
After all - PA should be still worth something. Already 1 PA is given out through success of the group. The other one should be related to the character doing it and not to the party.
|
I would like to see more advice about what skills each faction should invest in for better chances of success. As much as it sometimes is to just want to put a single rank into something and get the class bonus, maybe a little more from stats and/or a masterwork item, sometimes, it just does not cut it when many of the faction missions are now DC20.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I've accidentally completed other people's faction missions before. In fact, I was recently at a table with six people who were all the same faction. When they started asking about their mission, the GM informed them that they had all completely ignored the relevant NPC - yet I had asked the NPC exactly the right question just by chance, thereby earning six people their prestige point. :D
Is this a common event in Pathfinder Society games? To me it almost seemed like the meta -game was rearing its head, indeed in a way he was shocked/annoyed that we wernt helping him get X from the npc.
Yes, it's quite common in my experience for the faction mission part of the adventure to be quite awkward because of the cognitive dissonance between "I'm supposed to help my teammates" and "we're all members of competitive factions". Not to mention the cognitive dissonance between "we're expected to fail faction missions on a regular basis" and "modules are geared to be challenging to people who succeed on most of their faction missions".
I'd be happy if the prestige point system got chucked altogether, but I'm in a pretty small minority.
|
|
I remember when Thod blew up one of my faction missions :-(
;-)
The best times are when you mention the mission first off ("Hey, it would be a good idea if we made a map of their defenses, right?") and everyone agrees to help out!
Was this as GM or player ?
I remember when I blew up MoonMadness mission in a spectacular way. But this was when I was young an still learnt my ways.
Yes - as GM I can be harsh if a player isn't telling his comrades in time - and botches it in a way that can't be taken back.
|
|
My home group has now just begun making all of our characters from the same faction. Nobody really like the faction missions anyway. This way we are pretty much guaranteed all the P.A. (especially if the mission is to do something and make sure no one else sees you.) and can actually just focus on the actual scenario.
Many of my sessions played outside of our home group have actually been ruined by the faction missions with the GM giving more attention to the faction missions instead of the scenario. (One such instance took an entire hour out of the slot as he spent 10 minutes with each player roleplaying their faction mission. Which sounds fun.. except for the other 50 minutes where you are sitting there with nothing to do..)
But yes, this has totally happened to me before and people get real bitter about you not helping them get their PA.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
The problem, I suspect, is that you were playing in character, and your character had no reason to expect that your ally were performing a faction mission, or even that he was a member of some secret society.
There are ways to do that while not breaking character. "Do you see the inkwell on that man's desk?"
"Aye."
"I would very much like to place this pearl in his ink, but I cannot do so undetected. Is there any way your mage hand spell could do so?"
"I suppose so, but why in the Ten Hells would you want to --"
"To be frank, I do not know. Those are simply my orders, assigned to me by a [venture captain] / [friend of the Society] who assures me it is to our benefit. Were I to say more, I would [be in violation of my oaths] / [get people mad at me]."
--+--
I suppose my player could ask all manner of strange things from his cohort. "Could you retrieve that villain's left shoe?" "Could you carry this one arrow for me?" "For reasons I dare not explain, I need someone true of vision and pure of heart to lick that kobold."
Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City
|
--+--
I suppose my player could ask all manner of strange things from his cohort. "Could you retrieve that villain's left shoe?" "Could you carry this one arrow for me?" "For reasons I dare not explain, I need someone true of vision and pure of heart to lick that kobold."
Heh, now I'm going to have my PCs ask other PCs to all kinds of odd tasks, faction mission or not.
"Hey, can you steal that guys left shoe." "why?" "Bluff 25: Uh, it's important to me."
*giggles*
I need to build a bard entirely around this concept. I do faction missions for other people, and ask them to do insane tasks as "favors" for me. Then document the (hillarious) results.
It'd have to be a gnome prankster. There is no other correct answer.
|
|
Thanks for the information and views. I try to act in character at the table but frankly in my case I saw no need to help the character obtain X. Hell we all knew OOC that obviously he wanted the item for a faction mission, but I saw no reason why my character would help to get it. Is that Untrustworthy?
|
Thanks for the information and views. I try to act in character at the table but frankly in my case I saw no need to help the character obtain X. Hell we all knew OOC that obviously he wanted the item for a faction mission, but I saw no reason why my character would help to get it. Is that Untrustworthy?
Logical. I watched a character nearly die because the player didn't explain what he was doing. His faction goal was to off someone in the prison, and as soon as he sees her he starts throwing down. He kept screaming "Kill her, kill her!" at my character. He just sat there, not sure what to do. He only jumped in when my ally nearly died.
If someone doesn't explain why you should do something, you probably shouldn't do it. (Note: Mission Briefings from Drendle Drang *always* count)
Thanks for the information and views. I try to act in character at the table but frankly in my case I saw no need to help the character obtain X. Hell we all knew OOC that obviously he wanted the item for a faction mission, but I saw no reason why my character would help to get it. Is that Untrustworthy?
You're perfectly within your rights to do so. But I suspect that from time to time you might get some dirty looks for bringing a relatively uncooperative PC to the table instead of a super-cooperative one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks for the information and views. I try to act in character at the table but frankly in my case I saw no need to help the character obtain X. Hell we all knew OOC that obviously he wanted the item for a faction mission, but I saw no reason why my character would help to get it. Is that Untrustworthy?
An ally has asked you for a small favour; nothing difficult, dangerous or demeaning, and you've refused simply because you couldn't be bothered. That shows a lack of respect for your ally and makes them question what sort of alliance you have. Once those kinds of questions start being asked then trust becomes an issue.
For some characters it's perfectly good roleplaying to refuse, but I would suggest stating that you never help feeble mortals like them, or some-such comment which makes it clear it's in character. If the other player feels as though it's an OOC refusal to help then that can come across badly, particularly if you don't know each other.
|
Sounds like the Player needing the help - needs to work on his personal social skills. Ask nice.
I have a PC that regularly hands the following to the low CHA types at her table.
Contract offer:
During the course of our upcoming mission, if at any time
you find yourself in need of my special talents used in a discrete
fashion, you may feel free to request that I fulfill some task for
you. No questions asked. I am quite good with influencing
people, and I do have many other skills that would be at your
disposal. And I am always discrete.
In return, I would like to think I could call on you at some
point to assist me with a small task, something that I feel I am
unable to do on my own. And I am sure I could also rely on
you to be discrete in these matters also.
I would assure you that I would never ask you to do
anything which you would find overtly distasteful. Nothing
to violate any personal code or vows you have.
Signed: Katisha Lee
Sign here:_____________________________________
Though she calls them a Chaliaxian Agreement, she is not that faction (no longer, she faction changed in season 3). I've also started something like it with several of my other characters... but not as formal (her's is a double business card that I actually hand to the PCs & a copy to the Judge).
Just my little way of RPing "Cooperation" with other Pathfinders.