I am usually a DM, but I've been wrangled into playing Shattered Star instead of running it. The party so far is a Greatsword or Polearm Fighter, a Rogue (which I don't know the details of), and a Heavens Oracle.
I don't really like playing Wizards (have done more than one summoner), but I think that's what the party expects/needs. I assume the Oracle will be handling the battlefield control, but won't have the versatility of a Wizard. What other options out there would work, and why? Would it make sense to try a different wizard "build" to avoid summoning but keep the versatility?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Bard!
You can assist with whatever buffs/controls are necessary, be a flank buddy for the rogue, and provide whatever skills the rogue doesn't have to bear. Besides that, bards are just fun :P
If you want to be more melee oriented, use the Arcane Duelist archetype, while sneakier bards can go Sandman or Archaeologist. Magician works well if you want to boost spells, and if you go with a Gnome Prankster, it's quite fun to mess with targets (more so since you can use a whip for a somewhat 'ranged' steal attempt).
I am not overly fond of Bards. Also, I just learned the Rogue is using an ability swap I previously established as a DM, and he's trading some sneak attack damage for bardic knowledge, so a Bard would not fit well. Same player too... I'll never understand these guys that like to play the same thing over and over. :P I haven't played an archer type in a while, but I remember enjoying them. I am open to about any option (even a Wizard still) that doesn't rely heavily on summoning, as I am tired of it. Other than Bards, I don't like Barbarians, Summoners, Gunslingers, Ninjas, or Samurai. I always favored archers years ago when I played regularly, and I know there are a ton of options that would suit that (Ranger, Paladin, Zen Monk, Inquisitor), but I don't know if it will fit the group need.
I start with a build and then create rp stuff around that. But I usually optimize to what the group needs, so previously it has always been a summoner of some sort. I usually tried to put some sort of spin on it to keep them a bit different, but I'm weary of it. What is a "db" sorcerer?
If I'm gauging you correctly it seems like you are leaning towards an archer of some type, but aren't afraid to play a spellcaster if needs be.
If you are going for an archer, I'd suggest looking at the Guide or Skirmisher Archetypes, as they'll provide some unique opportunities to shine both in and out of combat.
If you want to go caster I'd suggest a sorcerer, and also suggest you take a look at some of the archetypes there as well. Those archetypes are a great way to add some flavor to a character, and really step away from the "run of the mill" character stereotypes.
No matter what, good luck and have fun!
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I'd suggest looking at the Arcane Archer prestige class, or possibly Magus. I think the Myrmidarch archetype gets the ability to spellstrike with a bow.
You can get decent battlefield control, mobility, and buffs out of a transmuter. Heck, take conjuration as opposing so you won't even be tempted to summon.
I don't really like playing Wizards (have done more than one summoner), but I think that's what the party expects/needs. I assume the Oracle will be handling the battlefield control, but won't have the versatility of a Wizard. What other options out there would work, and why? Would it make sense to try a different wizard "build" to avoid summoning but keep the versatility?
I think pretty much any kind of specialist wizard or witch can work out for you, really. I'd probably go with a bard or alchemist here, though - I'm fond of those two classes, and you get to shake the stereotype 4-people party a bit.
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Here are a few suggestions.
Wizard (Arcane Bomber)
Bombs for damage. Spells for every thing else.
Witch (Healing Patron)
Mind effecting specialized for casting. Hexes and healing as secondary.
Oracle (Spell Scare)
Spell effect remover. Secondary blasting and healing.
Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline Earth)
Blaster
Druid (Shaman: Bear, Lion, or Serpent)
Blaster. Pet front line. Back up healing.
Well, I think it will be either an Alchemist or an Inquisitor. No one in the group has ever tried an Inquisitor, and the one time we had an Alchemist, the game did not progress beyond 5th. I'll have to read up on both and see which I might prefer. Unfortunately, the Shattered Star players guide does not have the class recommendations section that I recall seeing in some of the others.
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If going the Alchemist wrought there is a few ways of doing it.
If the game is allowing guns I would pick up the Explosive missile discovery and Explosive bomb discovery asap and combine that with the vital strike feats. Best archetype for that build is Grenadier.
Now if there is no guns then go with the Vivisectionist and Internal Alchemist archetype combination and as a Half Elf and invest in a Great Sword. Pick up Improved Feint and Greater Feint and start wrecking crud with a power attacked vital strike great sword swing that does sneak attack.
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 2/AA ?? to finish is a great archer and more then capable of handling the arcane issues, its my favorite alt I have ever played
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Arcane Bomber (Wizard)
To many wizards, the experimentation of the alchemist seems quaint, if not dangerous or frightening. A few wizards take up the secrets of the bomb, however, fusing alchemy with their already considerable magical power.
Bomb (Su)
At 1st level, the arcane bomber gains an ability nearly identical to the alchemist’s bomb ability. Unlike the alchemist, at 1st level, the arcane bomber chooses one type of energy from the following list: acid, cold, fire, and electricity.
Spellblast Bombs (Su)
At 1st level, as a swift action, an arcane bomber can sacrifice one of his spells to empower the next bomb he throws during his turn.
Tiefling Transmuter? Take Vestigial wings and prehensile tail. dump charisma, play up the Shyness and Lack of Self Esteem. when people ask you your name, just say that you are "a little devil of no significance." when you receive rewards, remember to stutter and call yourself unworthy.
Well, I think it will be either an Alchemist or an Inquisitor. No one in the group has ever tried an Inquisitor, and the one time we had an Alchemist, the game did not progress beyond 5th. I'll have to read up on both and see which I might prefer. Unfortunately, the Shattered Star players guide does not have the class recommendations section that I recall seeing in some of the others.
in that case I'd recommend a ranged Inquisitor build.
Wow... lots of follow ups...
Guns aren't available, and I would rather do a bombing alchemist than a meleer. I don't think there is an archetype for that, but I haven't looked yet.
Witch Doctor sounds like an odd choice for a character that is or will be trying to become a Pathfinder. <shrug>
Whether they do what I want or not, I won't be making a Bard. I generally dislike the performance/entertainer aspect... it's just not something I enjoy trying to work with. It's the same with Barbarians... I'm sure they are effective, but I can't stand to play one.
There is a bit of overlap with an Alchemist though, since the Oracle will have healing and we already have a Rogue, so Disable Device won't be necessary. I'll have to dig into the alchemist and see how much utility there is, or switch back to some sort of non-summoning wizard. So much of the "good" wizard stuff is conjuration though. I will also read the witch, since that is another one I know nothing about. I know the Sleep Hex is a big feature... but that would seem to be the same type of trick as the Oracle's pattern stuff.
After skimming the Inquisitor, I don't think that is an option, but maybe someone else has a better idea of how useful they are in actual play. We've had Rangers galore, and an archer Paladin and zen monk previously, and I don't like repeating things, which is why I considered the Inquisitor in the first place.
Yes.
The Inquisitor is awesome.Be warned, you will easily out-sneak, and out-bluff the Rogue.
eh, the rogue's still better with trappy things though, so yo wouldn't be completely eclipsing his role--you could actually assist them on infiltration or investigating stuff.
Oh yeah, traps.
I will leave my opinions on the "we need rogue for traps" some where else.
I completely understand that stance, but since (darkbridger stated above) the rogue traded some of his sneak attack damage out for bardic knowledge, I assumed he was going for a more brainy-trappy guy approach (or just wanted to be a better skillmonkey, I dunno).
So, he is playing an Archeologist Bard, that isn't?
seems like it, just with sneak attack, more rogue talents, and improved uncanny dodge. So more tomb raider and less indiana jones I guess?
So, he is playing an Archeologist Bard, that isn't?seems like it, just with sneak attack, more rogue talents, and improved uncanny dodge. So more tomb raider and less indiana jones I guess?
Actually, the player in question considers it more Indiana Jones. He did not see the performance angle as a fit for that type of thing, even with Archaeologist. And he wanted to be able to deal with traps.
As far as what role to fill, I am a little confused on that front. I have seen suggestions in the thread for meleers and ranged damage, as well as more magical support. The Oracle (a gnome) should have some battlefield control, healing, and buffing I imagine. The Fighter is... the fighter (Shoanti with an Earth Breaker), and the rogue (tiefling I think) is indeed the skill monkey/trap handler.
Alchemist does ranged damage and magical support which is why I was leaning toward that. Inquisitor probably does too I guess, but I need to read that one first. Dungeons will probably be a focus in the AP, so it will come down to the better support I think... and bombs versus bows. The Witch I don't feel fits the general theme of the AP, but that's just me.
Well, after mentioning Alchemist last night, the Rogue player is wondering if I would play a Crypt Breaker... apparently he is reconsidering playing a Rogue. I may be back to square one here. :P
As a side note, I find that archetype interesting. It basically sets out trapfinding as being equivalent to a single feat (Brew Potion). I really don't like the rest of the archetype... reduced bomb damage and no mutagens unless discovered. The two DMs (myself and the other) are now debating whether to make this a generally available feat (trapfinding) and just give it to Rogues for free.
Anyway, don't wanna derail my own thread, so I will update once the other player decides on a new direction or not.
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Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 2/AA ?? to finish is a great archer and more then capable of handling the arcane issues, its my favorite alt I have ever played
Why 2 levels of Eldritch Knight? If it were 3 levels I would assume you were getting Weapon Specialization, but I don't see any significant benefit to having 2 levels of Eldritch Knight.
Great... the rogue player convinced the DM to allow a trapfinding feat (I talked him down to 1/4 level instead of the usual 1/2 level) and decided to create a trap handling gnome Alchemist.
So I guess now I need to provide some melee damage? Magus, Inquisitor, Paladin? Maybe a negative energy channeling battle cleric with inflict spells? Or would a smiting Paladin better at that sort of thing?
There is the "Find Traps" spell. No need for homebrew feats.
It was more an issue of being able to disarm magical traps, not necessarily finding traps.
Strong play will beats strong builds every time. Play something you enjoy and have fun with it. I would pick a cleric as they can do a little bit of everything.
Heh... read the first post... this is for the new Shattered Star AP. Sounds like there will be a heavy dungeon focus throughout, but the Player's Guide lacks any class recommendations.
Strong play is fine, but I always like trying out things the group hasn't tried yet. The group is a two-handed fighter, bomber alchemist, and a heaven's oracle. I could create another ranged or support character, but that would leave the fighter as the only meleer, and I am not sure that will work.
Cleric may work if I got the negative energy/debuffer route since I am free to ignore healing, and I have not created anything like that before. But would Magus, Inquisitor or Paladin be better?
Cleric may work if I got the negative energy/debuffer route since I am free to ignore healing, and I have not created anything like that before. But would Magus, Inquisitor or Paladin be better?
It's all about Witch if you want to be a debuffer. Misfortune, Sleep, Cackle :O
Wow... lots of follow ups...
Guns aren't available, and I would rather do a bombing alchemist than a meleer. I don't think there is an archetype for that, but I haven't looked yet.
Grenadier from Pathfinder Seeker of Secrets . Combine it with a half orc for extra damage per bomb from racial favoured class or gnome for extra bombs (you can never have enough bombs).
Alternatively, pick an outsider as race, and get all the nice weapon proficiencies for free and combine the interesting ranged feats which will benefit both an archer and the grenadier...
As for witch : Very strong choice, but you may feel unhappy about the roleplaying of it.
Native Outsiders do not gain proficiency with any weapon due to their type.
Bestiary (all three) say different for Outsiders. So does the OGC-site. Native subtype does not remove proficiencies. Care to list the relevant part of the FAQ ?
The Alchemist Grenadier archetype is of course in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, not within Seekers of Secrets.
And picking an elf will set you up nicely for bows as well.