Yes, the character now has adamantine gauntlets that can be used as weapons (or more accurately, as an unarmed strike):
Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets. Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of gauntlets.
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Likely they would have Adamantine Gauntlets then too. They are certainly paying enough for that kind of equipment. Your player will likely do a lot more damage with a their usual weapon and not get any real benefit from the gauntlets.
(Remember that Adamantine weapons don't ignore all hardness, they simply ignore hardness less then 20.)
By the way, be aware that the adamantine gauntlets won't make a difference if the character wears some type of magical gloves or gauntlets on their hands slot (as they replace the ones granted by armor).
One of my players acquired an Adamantium Full Plate armor. Full plate armors are stated to include gauntlets. Does this mean the character now has adamantium gauntlets that counts as weapons (1d3+str damage, ignores hardness)?
Nothing in the rules says the gauntlets are made of the same material or quality as the armor. If you think it would be weird for adamantine full plate to come with standard gauntlets, and you think getting an extra 6,000gp as a freebie is OK, then go for it.
It's the same as buying masterwork. Does masterwork armor that includes free gauntlets make the gauntlets masterwork? Probably not. Scale Mail includes gauntlets. Masterwork Scale Mail is 200 gp. Just buying a single masterwork gauntlet costs 302gp.
I am aware that enhancement bonus to armor does not apply to the gauntlets as weapons, but the material? Would be silly if they "counted as steel" on attack, but gave DR on defense.
Gauntlets are not armor. They give no defensive bonuses at all. There is no DR, no AC, no armor check penalty, no arcane spell failure. They are just weapons that are included with some sets of armor.
I think Grick's point is that adamantine full plate costs about 16,000 gold, and you are assuming that it comes with two adamantine gauntles which would cost by themselves 6,000 gold. So that would mean that every other piece of the armor together is actually only worth 10,000 gold, or that about 90% of the actual suit of armor actually only makes up about 63% of the cost, even though that other 37% doesn't actually give ANY bonus to a characters AC if worn alone. So theoretically, you could take off the gauntlets and replace them with a magical set and have a pair of 6,000 gold weapons to give to someone else with no penalty to yourself.
Actually I would agree with Grick, the creation of items with special materials means the majority of the item has to be of that material (or at least the buisness part). Not everything of that item is of the same material and full plate is no exception. As long as the big protective parts are of the special mats the benefits provided. Taking it further some materials are even completely inappropriate for all the uses in the armor.
Grick is correct. Most materials usually include a clause, such as "the cost for a Masterwork piece of equipment is included in the cost listed in the table below." This indicates that while a Masterwork type of equipment would most likely cost even more when created with a special material than a standard type of equipment, it actually doesn't because it's included with the cost, and since both item types are the same, but have only slight adjustments.
The same is true for here. While a Full Plate or Scale Mail (or whatever type of Medium/Heavy armor you wear) may say it comes with Gauntlets, it does not mean that the Gauntlets will receive the same amount of benefits as a full suit of armor; especially considering that a Gauntlet is considered a type of Weapon, whereas a suit of Full Plate is listed as a type of Heavy Armor.
You are paying for the type of item you are purchasing to have made out of that material. The price for an Adamantium Weapon (such as a Gauntlet, as per the weapon table) is not included for the cost of getting a suit of Heavy Armor made in Adamantium, especially since they are both considered two separate items.
Sure, you get regular gauntlets as per the listing, but no special material gauntlets as that would cost extra, and is not covered in the Heavy Armor pricing.
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if gauntlets were intrinsic part of armor (and considered as adamantine weapon), then removing them would depreciate the armor, giving less AC or less DR.
and this is not the case.
you can wear magical gloves instead of your free gauntlets and keep the full armor advantages.
I agree that logic-wise they should count as Adamantine weapon, but rule-wise they don't.
similarly, for armor spikes, you'd have to pay 3050 to make them count as adamantine.
However, if adamantine gauntlets did not cost 3k each by RAW, wouldn't it make sense that an armor made from that material mostly had it's steel parts replaced by adamantite?
Since gauntlets are weapons, not armor, then no. Just like if a vendor was offering a special deal: "Buy a set of leather armor and get a free longsword" wouldn't mean the longsword is made of leather.
And Dominigo, you can't wear part of an armor alone and expect to gain AC from it, the rules don't allow for it.
The armor is only the suit of armor, not any extras.
Otherwise wearing +1 Full Plate would take up not only the Armor slot (the suit of armor), but the Hands slot (from +1 gauntlets), Feet slot (+1 heavy leather boots), Head slot (+1 visored helmet), and Chest slot (+1 padding).
Buying a set of armor might also include a bag or box to carry it in, or a wooden dummy to set it up on when not in use, and maybe some small hammers and stuff for minor repairs. That doesn't mean you take an AC penalty when not using the box and the dummy and wielding the repair tools.
Beyond that, no rule states explicitly nor implicitly that Gauntlets are not made of the same material and quality as the armor they are a part of.
No rule states explicitly that the longsword you buy at the same time is not made of the same material as the armor you bought. Or the ale at the inn. Or anything else that doesn't make any sense.
Marketing doesn't explain buying a set of masterwork scale mail for 200 gold, then immediately selling both masterwork gauntlets at half price for 302 gold, resulting in a 102 gold profit. Why not wander around Absolom buying every masterwork scale mail you find, throwing away the armor, then selling back the masterwork gauntlets for profit? The actual cost in raw materials to create those gauntlets costs the smith more than the entire retail value of the whole set of armor. There's no marketing that can fix that.
"The suit includes gauntlets" means exactly that. You get a free set of gauntlets. Not magic gauntlets, not masterwork gauntlets, just plain old gauntlets.
A suit of armor refers to all its disparate parts. You can't refer to a singular item (the breast/back plate in this case) as being the suit. If an item is listed as being part of the suit then it is such. So, if the suit is made of a certain material then so are the individual pieces. This is logical.
The reason you don't lose AC and such when you replace the gauntlets is because its a game and its more streamlined and fun to manage "the armor" rather than tracking I lost 1 AC bonus because my hands are exposed. There's a reason piecemeal armor is an entirely separate set of rules and is listed as optional.
I'd say the real reason you don't lose AC when you replace the gauntlets is that gauntlets don't provide AC in their own right through any mechanics present in the game, including piecemeal armor. Same with helmets.
You are correct, this is a game, and within the confines of the game, gauntlets are weapons, not armor, and should be treated as such. The fact that you get the gauntlets for free with another purchase does not indicate any special qualities of the gauntlets themselves based on what the original purchase was. A climbers kit comes with rope, but that doesn't mean the quality of the rope is of the same material as the crampons, pitons, etc and the reverse is also true. Would you also say the boots that come with full plate (usually leather) become adamantine greaves when you buy an adamantine suit?
And no, the gauntlets coming with MW armor are not priced as MW weapons, and they don't count as MW weapons, the rules are clear on this. Despite the armor otherwise being MW.
So, it can be MW without giving MW bonus as a WEAPON. Thus the actual value of these adamantine gauntlets can be much less than the normal weapon variety.
Actually, if you are assuming the gauntlets are adamantine, you are also assuming they are masterwork. This is clearly spelled out under the entry of adamantine gear. They are either mundane steel gauntlets or the are masterwork adamantine gauntlets. There is no middle ground other than masterwork steel gauntlets.
A suit of armor refers to all its disparate parts. You can't refer to a singular item (the breast/back plate in this case) as being the suit. If an item is listed as being part of the suit then it is such. So, if the suit is made of a certain material then so are the individual pieces. This is logical.
The item is not listed as being part of the suit. The items are listed as being included with the suit.
Full plate includes gauntlets, boots, a helmet and padding.
A longsword includes a scabbard.
A bundle of arrows includes a quiver.
Alchemical Silver arrows do not include a silver quiver.
A cold-iron longsword does not include a cold-iron scabbard.
Adamantine full plate does not include adamantine gauntlets, adamantine boots, an adamantine helmet, and adamantine padding.
The reason you don't lose AC and such when you replace the gauntlets is because its a game and its more streamlined and fun to manage "the armor" rather than tracking I lost 1 AC bonus because my hands are exposed.
But it's more fun for players to have an infinite gold source by selling equipment they purchased for less than the cost of making it?
Full plate comes with leather boots specifically so obviously not.
Yes, because letting some gauntlets be adamantine by virtue of full plate is an infinite supply of gold.
There is no infinite gold.
The gauntlets are adamantine and they are part of the suit of armor and can't be sold separately- absent a houserule to the contrary- anymore than yuo can sell the helmet or padding or boots or chest piece or leg piece.
If your DM wants to houserule the selling of it piece meal like then he can houserule how he wants the cost of it to work.
But saying "the gauntlets are a different metal than the armor even though they are metal and they are part of the armor" is just trying to deny the player something they are getting for the already obscene cost of the armor.
Full Plate: This metal suit includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor. Each suit of full plate must be individually fitted to its owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4 × 100) gold pieces.
Furthermore, if they wanted the gauntlets or helmet to be made of a different material then they'd have said so just like they did the boots.
Did they? No. So they are made of the same material the armor is made out of. Adamantine, mithril, or whatever.Does this mean that buying adamantine full plate gets you a pair of gauntlets of adamantine without having to pay an additional 3k? yes.. yes it does.
But given you are paying 15k for a set of adamantine armor- I don't see that as a problem. The problem I'd have is "wow I paid 15k for adamantine armor and got gypped with a pair of crappy leather gloves".
Adamantine armor is made of Adamantine.
-S
In some cases, the assumption that the gauntlets are made of the same material as the armor they come with DOES amount to infinite player gold. For example, in the AP Kingmaker, my group was able to sell items we found at full value for a large portion of the campaign. Now, chain mail is medium armor that comes with gauntlets. Adamantine chain mail would come with 2 adamantine gauntlets at 10,150 gold. These gauntlets could then be sold for a total of 6,002 gold for the pair. Now, assuming you can't just sell the chain mail back for the ten grand you spent without the gauntlets, you have another option. You can take the leg and arm portions of the chain mail and throw them in the trash. Now, as per the piecemeal rules, which I will admit are optional, you have just legally created an adamantine chain shirt! This item is valued at 5,100 gold and does NOT have gauntlets accompanying it. Sell that back at full value, and you have a total of 11,102 gold, almost 1000 gold profit and you even threw away some pieces that could probably have been sold for materials.
So yes, there are times when this ruling gives free money to players rich enough to game the system. Additionally, if you are assuming that the materials are based on the armor they came with, its not too far to assume the same about the quality of the gauntlets, which can be cheated without piecemeal rules as Grick described.
Does this mean that buying adamantine full plate gets you a pair of gauntlets of adamantine without having to pay an additional 3k? yes.. yes it does.
Actually, you are giving them 6k gold worth of weapons, since each gauntlet costs 3001 rather than a pair for that much, which is almost half the cost of the armor. Thats a big change from the far less than 1% of value the gauntlets are of normal full plate. If I were the smith selling you the armor and wanted adamantine gauntlets for free with the adamantine full plate, I would laugh you out of my shop. There is no way the gauntlets would be THAT much of the material/labor cost of the armor.
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There is no infinite gold.
Correct. Because free items included with a purchase are not modified by that purchase.
The gauntlets are adamantine and they are part of the suit of armor and can't be sold separately
The gauntlets are not part of the armor, they are included with it.
Does this mean that buying adamantine full plate gets you a pair of gauntlets of adamantine without having to pay an additional 3k? yes.. yes it does.
No more than buying silver arrows gets you a silver quiver.
Adamantine armor is made of Adamantine.
Yes. And adamantine armor sometimes includes gauntlets. Not masterwork gauntlets, or adamantine gauntlets, or +2 flaming orc-bane gauntlets, just gauntlets.
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Masterwork shields reduce the ACP by one. They do not give a non-magical enhancement bonus to attack rolls.
Gauntlets (if you look at table 6-4: weapons on p.142) are not weapons. The first part of the table details simple weapons, yes, but the category of simple weapons is further broken down into (in reverse order for dramatic effect!) ranged weapons, two-handed melee weapons, one-handed melee weapons, light melee weapons, and unarmed attacks!
If gauntlets were weapons, they would be listed under light melee weapons. But they are not. They're under unarmed attacks.
Further, on p.146, is the entry describing gauntlets. 'This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than non-lethal damage with UNARMED STRIKES' (emphasis mine).
So, it's not the gauntlet that is the weapon, it is the unarmed strike itself which is the weapon. Gauntlets are not weapons themselves, they just modify unarmed strikes.
So, to the problem above. Looking at the entry for 'shield, heavy', we see, under 'shield bash attacks' on p.152 we see 'An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in it's own right.'
The upshot of all this is that, while the gauntlets which come with, say, adamantine full plate are made of adamantine (and are, thus, masterwork), all they do is contribute to the armour. They do not count as adamantine weapons. Indeed, they are not 'weapons' at all! They are masterwork as armour, not masterwork as weapons.
Therefore, they do not ignore hardness less than 20. They cannot be sold as if they were adamantine weapons. They do not bypass DR x/adamantine.
It's not a crazy houserule to use them to allow an unarmed strike to bypass that DR, but it would be just that, a houserule.
Taking shields as an example, I would allow gauntlets to be constructed as weapons. They would cost the same as weapons, not armour, in this case. Masterwork (steel, or other non-special material) gauntlets as weapons would cost 302gp each. Adamantine gauntlets that also act as adamantine weapons would cost 3002gp each, and would count as masterwork weapons, gaining a +1 non-magical enhancement bonus to hit.
It all makes sense. Sorry guys, no free lunch!
Gauntlets (if you look at table 6-4: weapons on p.142) are not weapons.
They are listed in Table: Weapons.
They have a description under Weapon Descriptions.SKR: "Brass knuckles should be armed (light melee weapon) attacks. (As should gauntlets and spiked gauntlets.)"
SKR: "Treating brass knuckles, gauntlets, spiked gauntlets, cesti, and rope gauntlets as "unarmed attacks" doesn't make a lot of sense (because you're not unarmed, you have metal/leather/rope/etc. there).... Making all of these weapons act 100% like weapons and not refer to unarmed attacks at all means these questions go away."
SKR: "because gauntlets are listed as weapons in the weapon section, but (unlike other weapons) can't be disarmed, and they're called out as exceptions to the "any weapon can be disarmed" rule."
SKR: "I'm just being specific to the topic at hand (things in the weapons section of the book, which includes gauntlets)."
JJ: "An amulet of mighty fists adds bonuses to natural attacks and unarmed attacks. Gauntlets and brass knuckles are neither of those, and so the amulet doesn't help those attacks in the slightest. To get magical enhancement bonuses to brass knuckles or gauntlets, you need to enhance the brass knuckles or gauntlets just as you would any other weapon."
If gauntlets were weapons, they would be listed under light melee weapons.
This was changed in Ultimate Equipment. (Or so I've been told)
The upshot of all this is that, while the gauntlets which come with, say, adamantine full plate are made of adamantine (and are, thus, masterwork), all they do is contribute to the armour.
Not only are they (still) not adamantine, they don't contribute to armor in any way.
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Cheers for the info, Grick. All I had to go on was the core rulebook.
It still leaves us with gauntlets being part of a suit of armour, AND counting as weapons. A lot like shields. A masterwork shield costs +150gp and reduces the ACP. If you want to make it a masterwork WEAPON, it costs +300gp and gives a +1 enhancement bonus to hit.
The gauntlets that come with armour may be used as weapons, in the same way shields may. A mithral shield would have an ACP of zero, and would cont as a masterwork shield for later enchantment with shield special abilities, and magical enhancement bonuses would add to AC. The mithral shield would NOT:- count as silver to overcome DR/silver, give a non-magical enhancement bonus to hit, benefit to attack and damage rolls when used to shield bash using it's magical enhancement bonus, nor could it be enchanted with weapon special abilities.
You MAY construct a shield using the rules for masterwork weapons, weapons made from special materials, or magical weapon abilities and enhancement bonuses. You would pay full (weapon) price.
Similarly, gauntlets may be used as weapons in the same way as shields may be used as weapons. But to benefit from special materials as weapons they must be paid for as weapons. Adamantine gauntlets may be constructed as adamantine weapons; they cost 3002gp each, and would ignore hardness less than 20, have a +1 non-magical enhancement bonus to hit, would bypass DR/adamantine, and could be enchanted as magical weapons. The gauntlets that come with the suit of adamantine armour are treated as armour, NOT weapons, when talking about hitting people in the face.
It still leaves us with gauntlets being part of a suit of armour, AND counting as weapons.
Once again, they are not part of a suit of armor. They are included with some suits of armor.
Included with != part of.
A lot like shields. A masterwork shield costs +150gp and reduces the ACP. If you want to make it a masterwork WEAPON, it costs +300gp and gives a +1 enhancement bonus to hit.
You can't add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon.
The only way to get an enhancement bonus to shield bashing is by enchanting the shield as a weapon, or attaching a masterwork shield spike.
Shield bashing in general could use some clarification anyway.
The gauntlets that come with armour may be used as weapons, in the same way shields may.
No, a gauntlet IS a weapon. It is, in every possible case, defined as a weapon. The only connection it has to armor of any sort is that some armors give you a pair for free.
But to benefit from special materials as weapons they must be paid for as weapons. Adamantine gauntlets may be constructed as adamantine weapons; they cost 3002gp each, and would ignore hardness less than 20, have a +1 non-magical enhancement bonus to hit, would bypass DR/adamantine, and could be enchanted as magical weapons. The gauntlets that come with the suit of adamantine armour are treated as armour, NOT weapons, when talking about hitting people in the face.
What you're saying is that there's no mechanical change whatsoever between "adamantine-as-armor gauntlets" and regular normal gauntlets.
So why make up the whole thing to start with? Just include normal gauntlets like the rules say.
Hmmm, I'll admit that gauntlets, helmet and eventual boots are not considered inherent pieces of armor by RAW. Thus they may be optional to use with an armor, as a simplification.
The rules spell out that a counting as masterwork as armor is not the same as mw weapons, thus gauntlets that comes with MW armor does not count as MW weapons. Thus, despite being adamantine or not, the gaunlets would not be MW weapons anyway.
As for material, full plate does not specify what material the gauntlets come in (while it specifies leather boots). It is a natural assumption that it comes in the same material as the armor itself, thus steel, iron, bronze etc.
Grick, your examples are full of hyperbole. We are not talking about HappyArmor offers at your local MacEwards where you get a free longsword with every leather armor you buy (which of course makes no sense as the longsword is more expensive).
Every suit of armor comes with x items, because it belongs with them. They can be replaced by magic items, and there is no clear rules on any consequences of doing that, but that doesn't mean they are just for show. The rules assumes characters using Full Plate uses the accompanying helmet, or maybe a magic helmet, rather than a Hat of Disguise.
And no, the gauntlets coming with MW armor are not priced as MW weapons, and they don't count as MW weapons, the rules are clear on this. Despite the armor otherwise being MW.
So, it can be MW without giving MW bonus as a WEAPON. Thus the actual value of these adamantine gauntlets can be much less than the normal weapon variety.
Another common sense interpretation may be that the amount of actual adamantine in these 1lb armor gauntlets is insufficient to qualify as Adamantine weapons, and thus gain the quality. Gauntlets actually crafted to be used as weapons of adamntine would thus have to contain alot more adamantine (despite having the same weight).
It's a bit far-fetched, but alot less than a 1lb dagger of adamantite being almost as pricy as a 8lb...
Weapons which is what gauntlets are, that are made of special materials are automatically masterwork, so to say they are adamantine, but not MW does not work.
There is no infinite gold.Correct. Because free items included with a purchase are not modified by that purchase.
The gauntlets are adamantine and they are part of the suit of armor and can't be sold separatelyThe gauntlets are not part of the armor, they are included with it.
Does this mean that buying adamantine full plate gets you a pair of gauntlets of adamantine without having to pay an additional 3k? yes.. yes it does.No more than buying silver arrows gets you a silver quiver.
Adamantine armor is made of Adamantine.Yes. And adamantine armor sometimes includes gauntlets. Not masterwork gauntlets, or adamantine gauntlets, or +2 flaming orc-bane gauntlets, just gauntlets.
Buying silver tipped arrows doesn't give yuo silver arrows either- it gives you exactly what it says it does. Silver tipped arrows.
Quivers are never made of silver- that argument is just a strawman to try and win the argument.Gauntlets are not part of the armor but are included with it? What pray tell do they do?
Oh, right.. they protect the hands..
Some armors have gauntlets, some don't. These do. And absent rules to the contrary, they are made of the same things the rest of the armor is. The boots are the exception- since they carved out the exception for them.
The rules are clear in that you get armor made of the metal you are purchasing- whether that's cold iron, mithril, Adamantine or whatever. Why is it clear? beacuse its part of the armor you are buying. It says so right in the Plate Mail entry.
If no armors came with them then that wouldn't apply but it does. It says that it does.
Trying to arbitrarily say its made of some other metal is just trying wiggle around the PC getting something the rules say they get.
Whats a silver arrow made out of? Wood, feathers, a metal tip. What's a quiver made out of? Leather, and some wood.
Whats armor made out of? the metal you chose when you bought it. Steel, cold iron, mithril, adamantine.
What are the gauntlets and helmet made out of? the same metal the rest of the armor is.
Adamantine Full Plate Armor comes with gauntlets, helmet, and a metal suit, and the padding for it. Included, Not separate.
Compared to say, a chain shirt- which doesn't included gauntlets. (or the helmet, or the boots.)
-S
The book only says the armor includes gauntlets. That seems to me like a buy X(armor) get Y(guantlets) free. That does not mean that X(armor) and Y(gauntlets) are a part of Z(the armor set). Since the guantlets are "thrown in" for lack of a better term and not worded as to be a part of the armor I see no reason why they should be adamantine also.
Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with
gauntlets.
<--The armor and the gauntlets are listed as separate items, not two parts of a whole.
Splint Mail: Splint mail is made up of metal strips, like banded mail. The suit includes gauntlets.
<--The other armors have this phrase. That indicates that gauntlets come with the armor. It does not mean it is a part of the armor.
It could have been phrased to say that the gauntlet was a part of the suit, and that they are always made of the same material, if that was the intent.
Okay, this whole argument is what you get when you take rules to a ridiculous degree.
Are adamant gauntlets so powerful that you are afraid to give your players a "free" set when they buy adamant armor? Just give them the gauntlets and move on. If they then try to sell the gauntlets as weapons for 3,000 each, slap them.
The problem is with the rules that state that no mater how big the weapon the price for the adamant is the same. Greatsword? 3,000gp. Dagger? 3,000gp. It's already silly don't add to the silliness.
P.S. I like the idea of giving a hastily donned penalty for armor without gauntlets that should have them.
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Grick wrote:-
'What you're saying is that there's no mechanical change whatsoever between "adamantine-as-armor gauntlets" and regular normal gauntlets.
So why make up the whole thing to start with? Just include normal gauntlets like the rules say.'
We get to the same practical result, Grick. It just seems to jar with my sense of reality that a suit of adamantine full plate would be made with steel gauntlets.
Still no free lunch though.
The game defines armor as equipment that grants an AC bonus. Gauntlets are not armor don't protect you from anything in the game
Armor/Shield Bonus: Each type of armor grants an armor bonus to AC, while shields grant a shield bonus to AC. The armor bonus from a suit of armor doesn't stack with other effects or items that grant an armor bonus. Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn't stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.
I am not saying that armor is the only game item that grants an armor bonus, but any mundane game item to include the armored kilt will be listed as armor. If you check the table and the text in the equipment chapter gauntlets are not listed as armor by the game.
Whats armor made out of? the metal you chose when you bought it. Steel, cold iron, mithril, adamantine.
What are the gauntlets and helmet made out of? the same metal the rest of the armor is.Adamantine Full Plate Armor comes with gauntlets, helmet, and a metal suit, and the padding for it. Included, Not separate.
I agree with this. As the book specifically states that full plate armor comes with gauntlets, they should receive all of it, and of the same material. It is a set that goes together.
Our DM, who is one who can be pretty stingy, would give the full set of armor pieces listed out of the book for full plate, and of the same material.
Now, if that same player who received the full set of admantite full plate tried to sell off the gauntlets piece meal, my DM would probably allow it, but then he would let the player know they no longer gain the benefits of having adamantite full plate as you don’t have the ‘complete set’ any longer.
Gauntlets are not part of the armor but are included with it? What pray tell do they do?
They are weapons that deal damage similar to an unarmed strike, only lethal, and which cannot be disarmed. You can read about them in the Weapon Descriptions of the Equipment section.
Oh, right.. they protect the hands..
Actually, they don't.
And absent rules to the contrary, they are made of the same things the rest of the armor is. The boots are the exception- since they carved out the exception for them.
That adamantine padding is pretty weird, then. They didn't carve out an exception for it.
The rules are clear in that you get armor made of the metal you are purchasing- whether that's cold iron, mithril, Adamantine or whatever. Why is it clear? beacuse its part of the armor you are buying. It says so right in the Plate Mail entry.
Correct. And since the gauntlets are not armor, none of that applies.
The entire suit is made from adamantine. That includes the gauntlets.
Oh, right.. they protect the hands..Actually, they don't.
Actually, Grick is right. Gauntlets don't protect your character's hands. Nothing does, because hands can't be damaged. Hands just hold weapons.
Armor protects your big pile of Hit Points. Those are the only things that need protection.
The entire suit is made from adamantine. That includes the gauntlets.
By the way the rules are written the guantlets are not a part of the suit. They come with the suit as a freebie.
If a character had an adamantine shield he could shield bash down a golem with it. I don't have a problem with a character attacking a golem with his gauntlets that came with his adamantine armor.
@Grick: I completely agree with your points but wanted to clear up that you can actually apply MW after creation via spell (there is one specifically for it).
As for the rest, I'd say it is clear that by RAW you get the equipment listed in the armor for free. Saying it is the same material is purely speculation as no where in the rules is it said to be the case. It doesn't say it in the specific armor description and in the special materials it actually says the majority of the item needs to be composed of the material which means not all the items included with the armor are of the specified material.
You could buy studded leather with adamantine studs, it wouldn't do anything besides empty your purse however. You could buy adamantine gauntlets but they wouldn't do anything for your AC or provide DR. In terms of a market, what makes you think the merchant is going to give you anything less than the minimum required? Why make an item out of a material that doesn't provide anything to the use or overall effectiveness of that item? It costs them money and they are there to make money.
"Why sure Sir, we have a complete suit of Adamantine Full Plate armor! What? Yes the gauntlets are of local make and strong steel, something we take pride in around here. You'd like Adamantine Gauntlets? I'll have to check stock, it isn't something we normally carry due to the cost of creating them and the rarity of demand, one moment please, I'll be right back!" "You're in luck!! For the suit of armor and the pair of gauntlets that will be...."
I think one thing that we ignore entirely too often is, this is indeed a high fantasy high magic setting. Combat is an abstract and the rules regarding them are made in a fashion where someone can play a chain bikini clad female who is effective in melee combat. The rules allow for a great deal of freedom in describing our characters pretty much how we want without imposing significant mechanical penalties for it, which is part of what draws many of us to the game.
The rules allow for one players concept of full plate "helmeted wall of metal" (which they find attractive) and another players concept of no helmet, scrounged together and missing "piecemeal plate" (which they find attractive) to both be mechanically effective.
By saying the majority of the armor needs to be of the material they are giving us some creative freedom, that is why (at least I believe) they don't include things that would "obviously" be protective as necessary for defense. It also allows for people to buy adamantine gauntlets for emergency close combat and wear mithril plate for the mobility it provides. We can mix and match to get what we want, where in another system we'd have more stringent rules that wouldn't allow that to happen.
As for the rule for boots providing protection, my guess would be caltrops.
By the way the rules are written the guantlets are not a part of the suit. They come with the suit as a freebie.
You guys do it your way, I do it mine. When a character purchases a suit of armor it's assumed that the entire suit is made from the same material. Gauntlets, boots, tighty whities, helemt, the whole she-bang.
Personally if I went to but armorer and found that the breast plate was adamatine, the pauldrons were iron, vambraces were mithral and the greaves were steel, and then they wanted to surcharge me for the helmet, I'd go somewhere else. Either sell me the complete suit, or don't sell me anything.
Ultimate Equipment Guide & Core Book:
A complete suit of full plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor.
The RAW clearly states 'gauntles'. If you want to, sure you can take them away from the suit and give the PC something else, but just simply state that, don't try and weave some convoluted theory or excuse about armorers and costs. Were that the case adventurers would be walking around looking like C3-PO with their shiny breastplate and off colored arms and legs because the BP is mithral but his arms are steel, but in order to cut costs the made his legs from iron...
For crying out loud.
You are paying for the type of item you are purchasing to have made out of that material. The price for an Adamantium Weapon (such as a Gauntlet, as per the weapon table) is not included for the cost of getting a suit of Heavy Armor made in Adamantium, especially since they are both considered two separate items.
Sure, you get regular gauntlets as per the listing, but no special material gauntlets as that would cost extra, and is not covered in the Heavy Armor pricing.
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I think this is kind of funny. I know that if I had a pair of Gloves of Missile Snaring and went to buy a suit of Adamantine Full Plate my DM would say "That will be 16500g". If I replied "You mean 13498g because I don't need the gauntlets and will just sell them back" he would kick my teeth in.
Ultimate Equipment Guide & Core Book:
A complete suit of full plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor.The RAW clearly states 'gauntles'. If you want to, sure you can take them away from the suit and give the PC something else, but just simply state that, don't try and weave some convoluted theory or excuse about armorers and costs. Were that the case adventurers would be walking around looking like C3-PO with their shiny breastplate and off colored arms and legs because the BP is mithral but his arms are steel, but in order to cut costs the made his legs from iron...
For crying out loud.
I'd say you were the one using convoluted and made up excuse for it being the way you want. We're providing RAW that says what you buy isn't completely composed of the material you have the armor made of. Play it your way in your game, it won't bother anyone else here, BUT when you want to impose your view of things in regards to the actual rules in the Rules Forum, why don't you provide something more than "It is" or "you're making things up" to back it up?
Full Plate Armor gives gauntlets, Adamantine Full Plate Armor gives gauntlets. It never says the material used is the same, just that you get them. RAW tells you that you get the item, not that it is "special" because the majority of the armor bought is "special" and RAW states that the entire suit of "special" armor doesn't need to be constructed entirely of the "special" armor to provide its benefit.
What rules do you have to prove your point?
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Not to post it yet one more time,but:
This metal suit comprises multiple
pieces of interconnected and overlaying
metal plates, incorporating the benefits
of numerous types of lesser armor. A
complete suit of full plate (or platemail,
as it is often called) includes gauntlets,
heavy leather boots, a visored helmet,
and a thick layer of padding that is worn
underneath the armor. Each suit of full
plate must be individually fitted to its
owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be
resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4 100)
gold pieces.
If the armor purchased specifically is "Adamantine Full Plate", then the armor's material is adamantine. The only other material specifically listed in the description is leather boots.
As well, to quote one last time:
A
complete suit of full plate (or platemail,
as it is often called) includes...
One might seem to imply that the suit is incomplete without all of it's components.
As for the matter of weaponizing or de-weaponizing the gauntlets that are included with the suit is a completely separate matter. The description however indicates that the suit is complete with it's specific pieces. From that point, if you purchase "Adamantine Full Plate", you get gauntlets that are made of adamantine, unless specifically stated otherwise.
So Wraithstrike, saying it is not MW as a WEAPON works just fine. It doesn't make sense, but then again the rules quite often doesn't make sense. After all this is a world where, by RAW, gauntlets and helmets provide no protection unless the DM houserules it.
Just to be clear I was saying there is no way it can be adamantine and not be masterwork which another poster was saying would be ok. I stated that because by the rules added a special material automatically makes it masterwork, and guantlets don't have a rules exception.
Just to be clear lets follow the logic that the guantlets must match the armor, not that I believe that but lets follow it anyway.
If I have masterwork steel armor instead of instead of normal steel armor my guantlets must also by masterwork.
The price of a masterwork Scalemail is 200 gp. This scalemail comes with 2 masterwork gauntlets by RAW. Each one would be 300 for making it masterwork alone for a total of 600 gp before the base price of the gauntlets are even included.
Saying you can spend 200 gp to get 600gp worth of items, that you can sell for 300gp is basically saying there is no reason to not buy masterwork scalemail, to get what amounts to free armor and an extra 100gp.
If it is mithral armor you basically get a 500 gp discount if you sell the gauntlets.