It depends on what you want from your Summoner. The Master Summoner Archetype is arguably one of the most powerfull classes in the game, though vastly unpopular in large groups.
Just think of the summoner as a melee class, and you'll be fine. Your summon should be doing a ton of damage, and your summoner should be buffing your summon while remaining hidden/protected. The summoner him/herself is the weakest aspect of the class; if he/she goes down, the eidolon goes down, too.
Also, if you plan on casting any of the summon monster spells, it would be handy to keep an easy-to-reference list of common stats for the summons, that way you don't have to look them up in the bestiary, slowing down the game every time you cast the spell.
|
Biped with a Weapon is nasty.
Pouncer build quadrupeds are also nasty.
Reach is king. Bipeds get 5ft of reach every time they go up in size
Make sure you don't forget the monster feats in the beastiary.
Build your Eidolon like a melee fighter
Build your Summoner like a buffer/controller
I can give you some strong level 1 summoner builds if you like and will give me some time.
The dm is having us start at 4th lvl and is going to let me have my eidolon and be able to summon a monster. Any help would be awesome Elamdri. And the master summoner sounds interesting
Your DM is going to let you have an eidolon and a summon out at the same time? Wow, are you in for a treat. Eidolons are powerful. Very powerful. Allowing a summon monster SLA to be used at the same time will make your character very overpowered, because those summon SLA's last for minutes per level, rather than rounds per level (remember, a minute is 10 rounds). Note that this is different from casting the spell summon monster, which is also on your spell list.
The summoner is a pet class, like the druid. But while the druid is the powerhouse and the animal companion his little helper, the summoner is opposite. With the summoner, the eidolon is the powerhouse and the summoner is the helper.
@Bialaska: Wow...
@OP: one of the things with the Summoner is it has numerous builds that work for it. Heck, if you have a lot of party members you could even go with Synthesist and do alright.
All in all, the Summoner is one of the few classes that could potentially survive a solo campaign. You get 2+ characters in one.
The Eidolon will most likely be a bodyguard/tank. With the Summoner acting as a pseudobard with his buffs.
Your GM is insane for allowing you both the Eidolon and your SLA at the same time. Heck even a Master Summoner's Weakened Eidolon if built right is to much to have with an SLA up.
Albeit the Master Summoner Eidolon is harder to get right...
Back on track: the thing to remember is you and your Eidolon share Magic Item slots. This means if your Eidolon wears a belt of strength then you can't wear a belt of dexterity.
The exception is Weapons and Armor IIRC.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The dm is having us start at 4th lvl and is going to let me have my eidolon and be able to summon a monster. Any help would be awesome Elamdri. And the master summoner sounds interesting
Charisma: Most Important, try for a 20
Constitution: Very Important, a 14 or higher is nice
Dexterity: Very Important, a 14 or higher is nice, arguably beneath Con
Wisdom/Intelligence: Roughly equal, do you want more skills or better will save? Roughly a 10 is nice
Strength: nerf it to the ground. Your lowest stat
Races:
Human, Half-Elf, Gnome, and Aasimar all make excellent summoners:
Humans: Skill Points and Feats, no negative stats
Half-Elf: The alternative favored class gives you 1/4 your level to the Eidolon's evolution pool. This gives you 5 extra evolution points at level 20.
Gnome: You get a boost to Cha and Con, and a negative to your dump, great. Also, I like the flavor of gnome summoner a lot. Also, you can ride your summon from level 1 if you like.
Aasimar: +2 to Charisma, +2 Wisdom, no negatives is great, but then you also get the alternative favored class option, which gives your Eidolon DR 1/2 / Evil every level, to a max of DR 10/Evil at level 20. That's powerful.
Skills: Use Magic Device and Spellcraft are super important. At 5th level you can steal evolution points from your Eidolon and fly, so fly is good. After that focus on Charisma based skills.
Feats: If you are Human, your two 1st level feats should be Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augmented Summoning to boost the power of your spell-like ability (Augmented Summoning doesn't affect Eidolon sadly, but still a great feat). For a third feat, I like improved Initiative. If you are not Human, Improved Initiative will have to wait until 5th level. At some point, you should probably pick up craft wonderous item or craft magic arms and armor if your GM is craft friendly. Summoners are EXPENSIVE as you got 2 people to gear out.
Gear: Will be handled in another section, depends on Eidolon choice.
Here are some strong Eidolon builds that I like. Remember though that the Eidolon is a incredibly customizable creature, so build it how you like. These will be good in combat, but if that's not what you're going for, change it up to suit your play :D
Eidolon Builds:
Base Form: Biped, BAB +3, Speed 30ft
Stats:
Str:19
Dex:13
Con:13
Int:7
Wis:10
Cha:11
Evolutions:
free:claws
free:limbs (arms)
free:limbs (legs)
1: Bite
2: Ability Increase (Str)
1: Reach (Bite)
1: Improved Natural Armor
1: Claws
1: Climb/Swim/Gills/low light vision (you pick)
At 5th level, you want to get the fly evolution
At 8th level, you want to get the Large Size Evolution
Skills:
I suggest maxing Fly, Perception, Stealth, and splitting two points between Climb and Swim. Remember, you can only put points into skills up to your Eidolon's HD.
Feats:
1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Curved Blade
2: Power Attack
Next feat should be Combat Reflexes for more attacks of opportunity
Full Round Attack:
Note: This assumes Power attack.
Elven Curved Sword: +6 (1d10 + 9|18-20/x2), Bite +1 (1d6 + 3)(10ft reach), 2 Claws +1 (1d4 + 3)
How to Play it
Every time the Biped goes up in size, he gains 5ft of Reach. With Combat Reflexes, that means a lot of painful 2H Weapon smacks to anything that dares get close to it. You should always cast Enlarge Person on your Eidolon for that reason (Don't for get to increase your damage dice!) Biped also has the best strength, so you will be able to capitalize on that with the 2H Weapon. Remember that you can make natural attacks with a weapon, but they are all treated as Secondary attacks that take a -5 to hit.
Note: If you want, you can get a Reach Weapon like a Glaive to gain ANOTHER 5ft of reach, rather than a Elven Curved Blade.
Base Form: Biped, BAB +3, Speed 30ft
Stats:
Str:19
Dex:13
Con:13
Int:7
Wis:10
Cha:11
Evolutions:
free:claws
free:limbs (arms)
free:limbs (legs)
1: Claws
2: Ability Increase (Str)
1: Reach (Claws)
1: Improved Natural Armor
1: Magic Attacks
1: Improved Damage (Claws)
At 5th level, you want to get the fly evolution
At 8th level, you want to get the Large Size Evolution
Skills:
I suggest maxing Fly, Perception, Stealth, and splitting two points between Climb and Swim. Remember, you can only put points into skills up to your Eidolon's HD.
Feats:
1: Power Attack
2: Combat Reflexes
Next feat should be Improved Natural Attack (Claws) to increase the claw's damage dice (Stacks with the Evolution of Improve Damage :D)
Full Round Attack:
Note: This assumes Power attack.
4 Claws + 5 (1d6 + 6)(10ft Reach)
How to Play it
Again, Reach is awesome here. Size is going to be really important again, so go go gadget Enlarge Person + Large Evolution! If you take Improve Damage (Claws) and Improve Natural Attack (Claws), your Claws will do 1d8 damage as medium, 2d6 damage as large, 2d8 damage as huge, 4d6 damage as Colossal...well you get the picture. And they will get 5ft of reach for every size increase. Which stacks with the Reach Evolution. Enjoy having 4 Greatswords-equivalent attacks.
Base Form: Quadruped, BAB +3, Speed 40ft
Stats:
Str:17
Dex:15
Con:13
Int:7
Wis:10
Cha:11
Evolutions:
free: bite
free:limbs (legs)
free:limbs (legs)
1: Claws
2: Ability Increase (Str)
1: Pounce
1: Improved Natural Armor
1: Rake (2 free claws on a pounce or grapple)
1: Improved Damage (Claws)
At 5th level, you want to get the fly evolution
At 8th level, you want to get the Large Size Evolution
(Notice a pattern yet?)
This build also has some other staples. You are always going to want the Rake evolution and you are going to want to get the grab evolution on the Bite to make full use of Rake. Rend is also a great evolution because this is a claw heavy build.
Skills:
I suggest maxing Fly, Perception, Stealth, and splitting two points between Climb and Swim. Remember, you can only put points into skills up to your Eidolon's HD.
Feats:
1: Power Attack
2: Combat Reflexes
Next feat should be Improved Natural Attack (Claws) to increase the claw's damage dice (Stacks with the Evolution of Improve Damage :D)
Full Round Attack:
Note: This assumes Power attack AND Pouncing. (You only get the Rake attacks when pouncing or grappling)
1 Bite +5 (1d6 + 5); 4 Claws + 5 (1d6 + 5)
How to Play it
Like the natural attack Eidolon, you want to take Improve Damage (Claws) and Improve Natural Attack (Claws), your Claws will do 1d8 damage as medium, 2d6 damage as large, 2d8 damage as huge, 4d6 damage as Colossal...well you get the picture. This build wants to pounce as much as possible to get the 2 free Claw attacks from Rake. You should make sure to get the grab evolution for your bite attack to be able to Rake as much as possible. Rend is also a good choice because the likelihood that you land 2 Claw attacks is high.
Note that the stats in the Eidolons above does not take into account magic items.
This is Eidolon dependent.
2H Weapon Eidolon: Get your Eidolon a +1 Weapon. This leaves you with 4,000 gold. I suggest investing in any combination of Cloak of Resistance, +1 Armor and Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend.
Nat Attack Biped and Quad: Get an Amulet of Mighty Fists. It's expensive, I know, but worth it. You're getting +1 to all your natural attacks, and you have like 4-5 depending on the Eidolon, so that's the equivalent of like 4 +1 weapons. You will have 1,000 gold left to spend on what you want for your summoner.
Long term gear:
You're gonna want a belt of strength for your Eidolon and Headband of Charisma for yourself. Remember that you can't wear a belt if your eidolon does and vice versa (Applies to every item slot).
Metamagic Rods are awesome for summoner: You want a rod of Extend for buffs like Mage Armor. A Rod of Reach is also great for buffing the Eidolon from a distance. If you can afford them, a Rod of Quicken is great and so is a Rod of Dazing (They're super expensive).
O leve
Detect Magic
Mage Hand
Guidance
Read Magic
Open/Close
Light
1st level
Grease
Mage Armor
Enlarge Person
Unfetter
If you plan on having a huge Eidolon, you want Reduce Person to shrink him to get him in tight spaces.
Protection from Evil is also a good spell
Eventually you are going to want a wand of Shield for buffing.
2nd level
Glitterdust
Haste
Good spell choices: Barkskin, Lesser Evolution Surge, Create Pit, Invisibility, Slow, Summon Eidolon. (Lesser Evolution Surge and Summon Eidolon would make good wands if you can afford them).
Hope this helps!
@Elamdri: is it bad that I pictured a gnome on the back of an Iron Golem when I read that about the Gnome riding his Eidolon from Level 1...
those are pretty nice builds... though I'm not sure why the pattern.
|
|
@Elamdri: is it bad that I pictured a gnome on the back of an Iron Golem when I read that about the Gnome riding his Eidolon from Level 1...
those are pretty nice builds... though I'm not sure why the pattern.
Nope, same image :D
The pattern is cause Copy and Paste saves time.
Also, I forgot, but the 2H weapon wielding Biped should take Lunge early, to again maximize the reach.
If you have a reach weapon + Lunge + 2 size increases, that's a 25ft reach. With Combat Reflexes, you will beat the bejesus out of anything that tries to move.
@Elamdri: is it bad that I pictured a gnome on the back of an Iron Golem when I read that about the Gnome riding his Eidolon from Level 1...
those are pretty nice builds... though I'm not sure why the pattern.
Nope, same image :D
The pattern is cause Copy and Paste saves time.
Also, I forgot, but the 2H weapon wielding Biped should take Lunge early, to again maximize the reach.
If you have a reach weapon + Lunge + 2 size increases, that's a 25ft reach. With Combat Reflexes, you will beat the bejesus out of anything that tries to move.
1) good
2) makes sense3) good idea
4) by Torag's beard... I think I am in love with that build.
|
|
So just some general thoughts:
At low levels, Eidolons who focus on natural attacks are gonna deal the most damage. The Pouncing Quadruped does the most damage on a full round action if it rakes and rends.
At higher levels however, you are going to find that if you give ANY Eidolon an extra Limbs (arms) evolution and give it a weapon, it's going to deal more damage.
This is because with just one weapon, a max level Eidolon can make 10 attacks:
3 Weapon attacks at a +15/+10/+5 and then 7 Natural attacks, all at a +13
Also, I highly suggest that no matter the Eidolon, you give it a weapon proficiency feat and keep an adamantine and a Cold iron weapon around. You can get through magic and silver and alignment DR with feats and evolutions and magic items, but for cold iron and adamantine, you will need a weapon.
Wow...
Maybe use the Lamia whatever-the-prebuilt-eidolons-are-called. And build towards that?
Wait, isn't the reach evolution with 1 attack, and not with 1 attack type? like if you have 4 claw attacks, only one can gain extra reach?
Wait, isn't the reach evolution with 1 attack, and not with 1 attack type? like if you have 4 claw attacks, only one can gain extra reach?
Claws come in pairs, so the reach evolution would effect two claw attacks.
|
|
In Ultimate Magic, it lists a number of various Eidolon builds, one of which is the Aboleth
Aboleth
The eidolon looks like an aberrant aquatic creature such as an aboleth.
25 points: Base Form aquatic; Primary Evolutions reach (tentacles), tentacles (2);
This implies that the Reach evolution is intended to apply to one FORM for natural attack, as they apply the reach evolution to all the tentacles of the Aboleth, despite the fact that they are separate attacks.
This also brings the Reach Evolution in line with all other evolutions that affect a FORM of natural attack, rather than an individual attack.
Are there any other players in this campaign? It seems as though your DM is steering you in a direction where you basically play an entire party.
Is there really a wrong way to build an Eidolon?
|
|
There is an Alchemist and a Paladin in the party. Now the DM says that I wont be able to have both the eidolon and the summoned monster. Also was reading about the Eidolon and it was saying that they cannot equip armor because it interferes with the link between them and the summoner.
Not being able to have the eidolon and the summon monster ability is how the class is supposed to work, smart on him to change that. He would have hated his life if he let you do that.
Yes, the Eidolon cannot wear armor. But that's the only restriction. It can wear any other items. Also, you can cast mage armor on the Eidolon to give it armor.
However summoners and Eidolons share item slots
So if you wear a cloak, the eidolon can't
If the Eidolon wears a belt, you can't
If the Eidolon wears a ring, you can only wear one ring.
Is there really a wrong way to build an Eidolon?Plenty, most of them however involve incorrect usage of the build rules.
Really there is a way to make an ineffective Eidolon?
|
Really there is a way to make an ineffective Eidolon?Plenty, most of them however involve incorrect usage of the build rules.Is there
really a wrong way to build an Eidolon?
Probably, but it takes more system mastery to make that ineffective eidolon then it does to make an overpowered monk/rogue multiclass and you know how often that overpowered combo is complained about. ;)
Probably, but it takes more system mastery to make that ineffective eidolon then it does to make an overpowered monk/rogue multiclass and you know how often that overpowered combo is complained about. ;)Really there is a way to make an ineffective Eidolon?Plenty, most of them however involve incorrect usage of the build rules.Is there
really a wrong way to build an Eidolon?
Wow...