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I've been on these boards for about a week and a half now, and the hate and vitriol is pretty typical of the internet. I suppose I should be grateful that Paizo enforces certain behavior limits.
If you't not willing to listen to other people's opinions and are unwilling to tolerate rational critiques, then you'll likely find a less than warm welcome. Reacting to condescension and intolerance with cynicism and vitriol isn't a phenomenon unique to the Pathfinder forums or even the internet; it's the way the world works.
While the boards have been overly harsh lately, the above, as stated by Illeist, is also true. Tone plays a major factor in how well you'll be received. If you're not sure how a post comes across sometimes I find it helpful to read it back to yourself out loud (or in a muttered whisper if at work) before hitting "submit".
Again, I haven't gone through your entire accidental thread so I'm not sure how the tone comes across there. Like most things, it could be a case of a little from column A and a little from column B.
I love how certain people try to turn this around on me for something I did in another thread. (And Atarlost, I already figured out how to do that exact thing -- playing a monk.)
Yes, some of the responses have been less than constructive. I wouldn't say it's entirely undeserved, though.
I think a lot of people are on edge too because of all the monk issues/threads being thrown around. They're quite heated.
The next time you run up against something with Spell Resistance, or protected by an Anti-Magic Shell, or is located in an antimagical zone -- hey, guess what, those non-spellcasters get to show you what they're good for.
Antimagic effects are anathema to item dependent classes just as much as they are to spell dependent classes. Moreover, antimagic effects allowing non-casters to shine is either incredibly contrived or very rare.
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lol flagged for what exactly? I didn't curse. I didn't name call. I simply made a joke about a ridiculous post.Well, when you quote someone you are supposed to actually use the same words they used. I have seen mods delete posts or exactly that reason.
^This.
I love how certain people try to turn this around on me for something I did in another thread. (And Atarlost, I already figured out how to do that exact thing -- playing a monk.)
This thread wasn't just about me; it's about all the times I read someone posting 'hey, I need some advice on a character/build' and immediately people start telling them 'you should play a spellcaster instead of that class'.
Believe it or not, folks, there are people who do not like to play spellcasters. And there are GMs who can control the casters so they don't overshadow the game. We call these 'good GMs'. The next time you run up against something with Spell Resistance, or protected by an Anti-Magic Shell, or is located in an antimagical zone -- hey, guess what, those non-spellcasters get to show you what they're good for.
I've been on these boards for about a week and a half now, and the hate and vitriol is pretty typical of the internet. I suppose I should be grateful that Paizo enforces certain behavior limits.
Umm, how does "accidental hero" fit with a highly trained from birth Monk?
Atarlost is correct, your 4 criteria removed all main classes from consideration, except maybe rogue.
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I disagree about the tone the boards have been taking; this is how it's been since I got here at least.
OP: I have a hard time believing this thread isn't all about you. You made a post asking for help with a character concept which doesn't work very well for this system, and now you're indignant because you didn't like the advice you received.
Why not just say, "Thanks for putting thought into my character" instead of raging at the entire forums for an issue that is inherant to the system you're playing?
I don't understand why you feel slighted by people giving you advice when you ask for it.
If you think you see vitriol on this forum you should see the exalted forum, most of the time things here are a sunny day in the beach when compared to that forum.
If you think you see vitriol on this forum you should see the exalted forum, most of the time things here are a sunny day in the beach when compared to that forum.
I'm on the MechWarrior Online forums... when someone there starts a thread on how a build used by maybe 1/3 of all players (out of 16 or so "class"/"archetype" combinations and an infinite amount of weapon customization) should maybe be toned back a bit, the answers vary from "u just suxxors at teh game lrn to frag" and direct death threats. Great fun!
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This is why we love Ross Byers and appreciate his unstinting work.
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I think when you ask for no caster that is interpreted differently by different people. For some it might to one extreme where the monks spell like abilities are considered a form caster as well with the Ninja and Rogue because of the rogue/ninja tricks. On the opposite side you have people that don't consider any class not capable of casting 9th level spell to be casters. So in their eyes a Inquisitor doesn't really count as caster. Then there are those in the middle who feel the Ranger for example is not caster.
I personally don't care to play casters and by that I mean full casters. I don't mind a few spells like the Ranger has, Even the 3/4 casters aren't bad. I just find spells to be a head ache you need to keep track of. It's either what do memorize today or what know spells to pick. With a Ranger a poor spell choice isn't devastating like it is with Wizard. Same with an Inquisitor or Bard, you pick the wrong spells it's not the end of the world like it is for a Sorcerer or Oracle. I'm being extreme there but those choices do take lot more thought when spell casting 90% of what you do.
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When I think 'accidental hero,' I first think of classes like Sorcerer, Oracle or Summoner (or Wilder, from 3.5), someone who *literally* has power thrust upon them and never trained or studied or planned for that 'class.' Most of the other classes study or practice or train until their eyes bleed to develop their class skills, including Fighters, Rogues, Wizards, Clerics, Monks, Bards, etc. and so don't really feel like 'accidental' heroes.
A Barbarian might work, on that theme, of the non-caster classes.
Granted, *any* class could, in theory, become an 'accidental hero,' if their studies were never meant to have combat / adventuring applications. A wizard who fully intended to spend his entire life in the academy, learning, teaching, researching, crafting, etc. and was thrust into an adventure and forced to 'make do' with an assortment of utterly non-optimal spells. A bard who intended to spend his entire life as a court herald. A monk who is focused on spiritual development, and never intented to use her martial arts skills for anything other than moving meditation, exhibitions and the occasional sparring for training purposes. A dwarven locksmith with levels in Rogue who never intented to use those skills outside of the dwarven capitol, crafting and testing vaults and lockboxes for her clients, and is thrust into a situation where her expertise is needed in some trap-filled duergar enclave. A cleric who never intended to leave the church, wanting to spend his life in devotion to his faith, moving steadily up the ranks until he can finally establish his own ministry.
Sort of a Bilbo Baggins situation, where your character never intended to be an adventurer, let alone a hero.
Probably the least likely classes to work with this sort of origin would be Inquisitors, Rangers, Paladins and Cavaliers. All of them, for one reason or another, have 'getting into fights' as part of their schtick, and it's hard to imagine an Inquisitor, frex, just hanging around the temple leveling up without going out their and inquisiting some folk.
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I'm going to disagree a bit on the Ranger. The outdoorsman type is best described by this class (first favored enemy would be animals, to be a better hunter) IMO.
Ooh, that's a good point. Indeed, I could see most 'NPC' rangers never having much need to go past being a hunter, in lands that aren't crawling with monsters.