Yes, thank you :). My question refers to the details of that 'something creative', and how to make it fit in the overarching story?
I would hate to try to do something creative, and then not receiving the PP (cause it turned out not to be as great), thereby missing the opportunity (unless I can then try the assigned task)?
Don't get me wrong: that's amazing and admirable. But it's one thing to run very fast in a race, and quite another to fight off things that are trying to kill you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37jr7yc3CuA
Zing!
Obviously the real answer to this is to play an Evoker with a familier... you don't have to know exactly where the enemies are...
Lol, that's awesome, but still doesn't apply--here, both combatants are impaired, and judo is a grapple-based martial art: both fighters 'agree' (by convention/nature of the art) to not attack the other w/ anything but grapples and throws.
Enemies aren't going to play nice. Then again, you could make a grapple fighter, and you'd only have to deal with the penalties once.
Hahaha, possibly, although the build I have in mind (Snake Fang: whenever an opponent misses you, make an attack of opportunity) has better synergy with Displacement.
Got to be 9th level for Snake Fang - barring Master-of-Many-Styles cheese flannage...
...Mirror Image would work well for that though, and leave you another slot for haste or fly...
Yeah, it's MoMS (cheese flannage?)
I asked in the rules forum, apparently mirror image doesn't work because the enemy wasn't attacking me, he was attacking an image of me (so, he didn't 'miss me'). That seems reasonable given the way images work: if the guy hits my AC, but the %d says he hit an image, then it was because he was attacking the image in the first place (and not me). It would be like rolling a %d to determine which of two creatures you attack (a party member or myself), and hitting the party member. Snake Fang wouldn't trigger there.
Then again, I just happen to agree with their unofficial interpretation, maybe official rules differently.
Hahaha, possibly, although the build I have in mind (Snake Fang: whenever an opponent misses you, make an attack of opportunity) has better synergy with Displacement.
Any dedicated caster worth his salt (especially non-spontaneous) would obviously grab it, so, I'm hoping they do. Due to my lower caster level, it would be less effective than others (although I'd still have enough levels to buff the entire party).
Unless we have a catastrophically epic coordination problem, where everyone stops grabbing Haste because they expect everyone else to grab it.
What, 80,000 people giving a standing ovation to a blind runner finishing last, 3 minutes after the leader? It's amazing what people can accomplish when they don't realise that there isn't anything in the rulebook that specifically allows it ;)
This guy's rubbish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mehyfy6xr70 ;-)
Awesome, and an inspiration for a solution that might satisfy the rules-bound.
My character is mostly blind. It's sufficient that he suffers all of the penalties of blindness, but receives none of the benefits.
Don't get me wrong: that's amazing and admirable. But it's one thing to run very fast in a race, and quite another to fight off things that are trying to kill you.
PFS GM's also have a responsibility to ensure ballanced play, and the RAI interpretation for the Blind Fight feat being talked about create a horrible mechanics imballance, IMO. There's literally no combat disadvantage to being blind aside from the 25% miss chance because of concealment.
You've thought a lot more about the rules implications of this that I have. How does he find his opponents to enter combat? When he is moving around the battlefield, he still runs the risk of provoking AoOs from enemies that he moves past due to not having perceived them, doesn't he?
He'd need blindsense for all of that. The only way I know to get blindsense (in my very limited knowledge of other classes) is via DD (and high level one, at that). Since you need 5 ranks of K: Arcana, it's nearly impossible to do in PFS.
Not sure if there are other ways, there could be divination spells that can be made permanent.
PFS GM's also have a responsibility to ensure ballanced play, and the RAI interpretation for the Blind Fight feat being talked about create a horrible mechanics imballance, IMO. There's literally no combat disadvantage to being blind aside from the 25% miss chance because of concealment.
Hmm, I may have missed OP's discussion on how he expects to do the following (since someone must've mentioned it already): if you don't have blindsense, the char will have a hard time actually attacking the right square.
So, the 25% miss chance is only after you've already found the square: before that, you could be attacking thin air (or rolling %d to see if you attack the right square from where you hear the sounds). Heck, you could attack the right direction, but the baddie could be 2 squares (obviously missing).
So, how does a new player/character catch up with the events/faction goals? How long does that take?
I.e., Shadow Lodge wants to infiltrate Aspis Consortium, and one has the option of obtaining a PP by helping achieve that. While I've no RP intention of having my char involved in that in his first foray, it'd be good to know how best to incorporate the PC in the 'big things' going on.
Anyone can gain temporary blind condition by closing their eyes and everyone can gain immunity to gaze. Don't twist my words please.
@CanisDirus
Smoked Goggles unfortunately isn't something which Shoanti Barbarian would wear and I don't have ARG so I can't really pick those traits if there are any.
I don't think you can just 'close your eyes' to overcome gaze attacks, though I'm too lazy to look up the thread were this war was waged. IIRC, some GMs allowed closing/opening eyes as a swift action (so, only on your turn), but I don't recall if there was an official response.
Seeing as how Gaze attacks and Illusion spells can be quite nasty, a swift action to negate them (without much penalty if you're in the back ranks, providing support, as opposed to attacking) seems to be a bit too much.
For reference/spell selection, is there any rough estimate of how long PFS fights last? I'm building my first Combat class (and first PFS agent) with access to L3 arcane buffs, and in choosing these buffs, I'm wondering whether great ones like Haste or Displacemend (duration: 1 rd/level) are worth it when you have only moderate caster levels (7 CL). These, as opposed to Heroism (10 min/level) and Monstrous Physique (1 min/level).
(With Monstrous Physique --> Popobala, you get +2 Str, +2 AC, Darkvision 60, Fly 30 Average, Climb 30)
I'm thinking (I could be wrong, have not tried or seen this played) you might be a bit underpowered in the lower levels and won't really start coming into your power till around level 8. Which is 3/4th of your PFS characters life.
You're right in that he might be underpowered at L1, for example, w/o equipment. However, the character starts out with a scimitar (since Unarmed Fighter is proficient with Martial Weapons), due to the low unarmed strike damage (1d3). By L3, he has picked up Dragon Ferocity (so he can ditch the Scimitar), and by L5, TWF. Defensively, he's fully trained in Sense Motive, which should help avoid damage early on. I might be missing something (or a lot!), since it'll be my first combat class (have always played caster until now).
Matt2VK wrote:
Another issue I'm seeing is that it looks like you want to buff and do combat. PFS mods rarely give you the time to buff before combat. Most mods that I've seen is you go from point A to point B. At point B you do stuff, which can be anything from talking, searching, or fighting. You just never know what you'll be doing and buffs that only last minutes run out fast if you pre-buff for a possible combat.
Well, in case there's a fight, would taking 1 Standard Action to buff be so terrible? Casting either Haste or Displacement does wonders for the build, I don't plan to spend the entire fight buffing: rather, cast one buff at the beginning, and hopefully it'll last, if not for the whole encounter (since Haste/Displacement have 1/rd), enough to make a noticeable difference.
Matt2VK wrote:
Feats: You should take a serious look at the Will +2 Feat. Failing Will saves usually puts you out of combat completely, and might even add you to the bad guys side. There's nothing worse then failing a Will Save and then have you use your buff spells to help out your new found "friend".
I love Iron Will, but I don't know what to switch out for it. However, as a Half-Elf, the char is immune to sleep, has +2 vs enchantment; and with Dragon Style, +2 vs. paralysis and stun (so, +4 vs. Hold Person, for example).
Given that I grabbed Glitterdust (and have Blind-sense), I'm wondering whether I should replace Blind-fight with Toughness or Great Fortitude. Thoughts?
So, in the PFS forum, I first asked whether a character build was legal. After several replies/tweaks/iterations, questions about viability came up, but the thread lost steam. At this point, it seems the char is legal--now I'd like to make sure it can survive and contribute L1-12 (meaning everybody is happy: I'm having fun, party is having fun, glad to have PC around, etc.).
The build in bullets:
Unarmed Fighter and MoMS are used to bypass pre-reqs for Snake Style/Fang and Dragon Ferocity (grabbed early on).
With Sense Motive at 24 (pre-gear), Snake Style gives at least 25 AC or Touch, once per round.
Blur + Mage Armor + Wand of Shield + point above help increase enemies' miss chance, triggering several Snake Fangs (up to 3/turn, once I have Combat Reflexes).
Paragon Surge can be used to grab Displacement (via Expanded Arcana), to further increase miss chance.
Dragon Style/Ferocity/Hammer the Gap + TWF/Haste provide fair amount of static damage. If I did the math right, 4d6 + 48 (adding 1 Snake Fang), at +13/+8/+13. This is without +4 Str gear, Magic Weapon, or Haste.
Magic Weapon, to enhance unarmed attacks (not too familiar with monk options in this respect. Might be better choice?)
Usual benefits of Enlarge Person (Reach), Fly (mobility/attack flying creatures), Create Pit (some battlefield control, no save). However, looking for good replacement for Create Pit, one with more synergy, in case I missed anything (ideally, not Mirror Image, since that wouldn't trigger Snake Fang. That was covered in another thread, hope it won't derail this one into discussing that issue).
Khashir El'eth
Male Half-Elf Fighter 1 (Unarmed)/Monk 2 (Master of Many Styles)/Sorcerer 2 (Copper Draconic)/Dragon Disciple 7
Init +6 Senses Low-Light Vision
STATISTICS
STR 22 DEX 15 CON 16 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 13
Base Atk 8
TRAITS
Watchdog (The Shadow Lodge): +1 Sense Motive, also class skill
Deft Dodger: +1 Reflex
DEFENSE
AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13
HP 113
Fort 12, Ref 10, Will 10
OFFENSE
Special Attacks Stunning Fist, Dragon Bite, Dragon Form
If you're able to perform a swift action, then you can complete the getaway.
You don't need to speak or gesture, since the casting of the spell was already completed earlier.
Soooooo... I snap my fingers? Do a little dance? Click my heels? Wiggle my nose? I'm trying to identify under which circumstances one can be prevented from performing a swift action 'this' specific.
Perfect Example of a Spell causing suffering: Dominate Person, have said person kill the love of their life.
Well, if said love is innocent, that would most definitely be evil; but that's 'independent' of the nature of the spell (i.e., the spell itself is not evil: you could Fireball the innocent love of their life too, and that wouldn't make Fireball evil).
I didn't say it was Evil. Only that it causes suffering onto the target of the spell.
To me poison is one of those "depends on the circumstances". If your deity is fine with it as well as your "Code of Honor" then fine. If said Deity isn't fine with you using poison... Well your local priest probably shouldn't hear about it.
It also depends on how it is used.
I understand, but in order to make the analogy work, it has to show that the spell itself is evil (i.e., in every circumstance it's used, it is evil), much like poison detractors claim that poisons themselves are always evil.
What you're describing is not inherent evil in the spell itself, but in the use of it--much like Fireballing/Meteor Swarming an orphanage.
Are you one of my former players...
And trust me I don't get the X is always evil bit... heck, slavery in its original form wasn't evil.
LOL, I'm pretty sure I'm not (since I've only had one GM, and we're running a session at the moment). Why do you ask?
Either way, we seem to be bumping threads in the forums left and right.
The L6 spell Getaway allows you to designate a safe location to which you and your allies can teleport as a swift action. The exact nature of the trigger (mental/verbal/somatic/?) is not described, however:
"At any time before the spell's duration expires, you may trigger the spell as a swift action."
I'm curious as to how triggering it would work vs. grapples/silence/falling in acid/lava, etc.
Of the melee classes, Fighters are one of the few without some inmate method of reaching flying foes short of blowing WBL AND actions on activating flight.
OP is trolling... just leave it be. If 10+ pages don't convince him... I doubt anything will.
Perfect Example of a Spell causing suffering: Dominate Person, have said person kill the love of their life.
Well, if said love is innocent, that would most definitely be evil; but that's 'independent' of the nature of the spell (i.e., the spell itself is not evil: you could Fireball the innocent love of their life too, and that wouldn't make Fireball evil).
I didn't say it was Evil. Only that it causes suffering onto the target of the spell.
To me poison is one of those "depends on the circumstances". If your deity is fine with it as well as your "Code of Honor" then fine. If said Deity isn't fine with you using poison... Well your local priest probably shouldn't hear about it.
It also depends on how it is used.
I understand, but in order to make the analogy work, it has to show that the spell itself is evil (i.e., in every circumstance it's used, it is evil), much like poison detractors claim that poisons themselves are always evil.
What you're describing is not inherent evil in the spell itself, but in the use of it--much like Fireballing/Meteor Swarming an orphanage.
Edit: A third option you could run, concurrently with Contingency (Teleport/Cloud Form/etc.) and Unconscious Agenda is (Extended) Getaway. This would allow the sorceress to teleport herself and her better half back to a location of their choosing as a swift action (so, gives her a third escape route, assuming the rogue doesn't kill her in one turn).
The advantage is that she's immediately with someone who can help her, and it would seem that triggering the spell has no verbal/somatic components.
Perfect Example of a Spell causing suffering: Dominate Person, have said person kill the love of their life.
Well, if said love is innocent, that would most definitely be evil; but that's 'independent' of the nature of the spell (i.e., the spell itself is not evil: you could Fireball the innocent love of their life too, and that wouldn't make Fireball evil).
*Facepalm* There is NOTHING inherently evil about the use of poison. That stupid ruling should be dead and gone by now.
Poisoning inflicts additional suffering on an opponent beyond merely attacking them and is often applied in deceitful or underhanded way. It's most certainly NOT a good act.
Heh, that's a pretty tenuous line there. First, the 'additional' suffering part is kind of weird: so, as I'm killing you, it's only really evil if I cause you "additional suffering"? Seems bizarre, barring extreme cases (outright torture). If anything, many arcane spells can be claimed to cause 'additional suffering' beyond 'merely attacking' your foes (which I take to mean 'cause physical damage in some morally-permissible way'): Feeblemind, Baleful Polymorph, Imprisonment/Maze, maybe even Dominate Person (completely suppressing/overpowering a person's will could cause some distress/suffering, esp. if you can just 'merely attack' them.) Yet none of these spells have the Evil descriptor, nor are considered evil, despite matching your criteria.
The deceitful/underhanded part is also weird: are Still + Silent spells deceitful or underhanded? Why not? They seem pretty sneaky to me.
In short, it's one thing to claim poisons are dishonorable (thereby placing their use in the Law/Chaos axis); it's another to claim they're evil (i.e., in the Good/Evil axis). The former seems more reasonable, the latter requires ad hoc contortions to PF's moral guidelines.
Miasmatic Form and Cloud Shape would also keep campaign moving more quickly than Teleport, since it doesn't require the party to travel a great distance.
Also, Sorceress could cast Telepathic Bond + Permanency with her partner, solving many many coordination problems.
Since your goal is for her to survive, Teleport/Dimension Door seem to be your best bets. Planeshift would be too risky, and would probably extend your campaign longer than you want. Maybe have the Sorceress tell her would-be husband (in secret): "I'm afraid of being kidnapped again, so, I'll setup this magic protection. If anything were to happen to me, I'll be at this location (give or take whatever % applies to her)." And maybe have some sort of pyrotechnics/flare thing to help them pinpoint the exact location.
That way, at least one person in the party will know where to look for her.
This is very good advice. Though more details might help up.
Your Rogue will do a double-take when he finds himself doing everything in his power to protect the Sorceress!
This could be working in parallel with Contingency - Teleport. Plus, she can cast 8th level spells, so Moment of Prescience and Undead Anatomy (Immunity to Critical hits? Yes please).
Edit: If Rogue complains that you're metagaming, just point out that she's a Lvl 16 caster who's been kidnapped once already. She's smart enough to prepare magical safeguards like Moment of Prescience and Contingency.
"Any hostile action that will kill me, render my unable to cast, or immobilize me will instantly teleport me to my specified lair. "
Unfortunately, Greater Teleport is L7, you can only Contingency L6 or less (and you need CL 18 for that). So, it'll have to be Teleport/Dimension Door.
I think humanizing should be option 1, Contingency option 2 (or simultaneous). The sorceress was already kidnapped once--at CL16, she should be smart enough to have Contingency active 24/7 (even without the Rogue's plan/meta-gaming).
Since your goal is for her to survive, Teleport/Dimension Door seem to be your best bets. Planeshift would be too risky, and would probably extend your campaign longer than you want. Maybe have the Sorceress tell her would-be husband (in secret): "I'm afraid of being kidnapped again, so, I'll setup this magic protection. If anything were to happen to me, I'll be at this location (give or take whatever % applies to her)." And maybe have some sort of pyrotechnics/flare thing to help them pinpoint the exact location.
That way, at least one person in the party will know where to look for her.
Please don't get me wrong - my play style is different and you need to build a character the way you enjoy most. And I have seen enough players here with a similar mindset. But I though I give you my thought on this thread.
Is planning alignment changes ahead of time turning a character development upside down?
During your leveling up
You meet other adventurers,
You make friends and enemies
You visit new cultures
You might have life and death experiences - maybe you even die
With everything planned ahead you have to ensure that the experience that your character has will fit into your build. You can't allow an experience of the character leading to him changing his path as it is already predefined - regardless which scenarios he plays.
Just give it some thoughts and build at least a minimal amount of flexibility into your character. Every character I play comes with a vision how I think this character will develop. But none of these visions survives multiple levels as events open up alternative choices or I realize some other aspect of my character is more important then envisioned.
I feel ya man, I really do: I cringed a bit at the precision of it all. However, as my first combat class (woohoo!), I loved the mechanics of this build, and how it can be meshed so well with a story that makes perfect sense in Absalom (since the Foreign Quarter is where most foreigners stay, the Irorium is the centerpiece of the quarter, and Irori is all about perfecting the self.) Not to mention the story about the character development as well: as Master of Many Styles, he picks up Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity as part of the transition to Dragon Disciple.
All this love comes after the original concept got ripped apart (with constructive criticism ;)) in a thread, and I was able to rebuild it in a seemingly workable state. I don't know about you, but when I like a character concept, only to find out it's mechanically/practically unfeasible, well, as far as I'm concerned, the character just died once already. In that sense, this guy died 2-3 times before arriving at its current incarnation, which seems to be PFS viable (and, I'm hoping, really fun to play).
Again, the alignment changes are mostly flavour (since the Draconic heritage is Chaotic Good aligned) and preference (I don't like lawful characters very much, even though LN gives you quite a bit of flexibility).
The way I justified it within the context of PFS is that, by the CRB, it's contemplated that monks can stop being lawful, so, that wouldn't be a problem. Further, the guide to organized play mentions that agents aren't fully occupied by their field work (which allows PCs to have Professions). I figure, during that time, some people have professions, other people do nothing; my PC can be going through this personal story.
As much as possible, I'll try to make sure not to stretch it, in that, if the (personal) story has to give because of the PFS adventures, then the latter will take precedence.
I've been bombarding the boards, so, I'll keep this one short and sweet:
Things like Bedrolls, Backpacks, Ropes, Maps, Grappling Hooks, etc., are they worth spending money on? In many (non-PFS) games, I spend sizable amounts of precious GP on these, but they end up not being necessary (i.e., they weren't "needed explicitly" at any point in the session).
I have no interest in Barbarian (as you saw from my original post, the design was barely workable, let alone optimized/cheesy). The alignment change is RP-motivated.
How/when should I approach the GM in this respect? My guess is that just saying "hey, sign-off an alignment change plz." Should I show him a more polished version of the idea above at the beginning/end of session?
Ok, sweet. I think I'll bring the stuff printed, if only to not make it more difficult for others (I like saving paper, but I'd like to put my best foot forward).
I'd like to know if the following is doable in PFS (I'll first describe the mechanics, and then the flavour). I'm thinking about a character that dips two levels into monk--I'd like the char to start out Neutral Good, shift to Lawful Good, then end up Chaotic Good.
The story is basically the following: the character is a Half-Elf Unarmed Fighter, with (Copper) Draconic heritage (though he speaks Draconic, he is not fully aware of why; and his heritage is hinted at by his reddish-brown hair, darker skin, etc.).
After arriving at the Foreign Quarter in Absalom, he is awestruck by the Irorium. He pokes around, trying to find out more about it, and discovers Irori, and the followers' quest for physical and mental perfection. Drawn to it, he submits to their code (becomes Lawful Good), and trains for a while. Eventually, he starts to get tired of the strictness of their code, rituals and diets, which he finds are unnecessary. Further, their tenet that "all knowledge is sacred" implies (or, he takes to imply) that even evil knowledge (necromantic rituals, for example) must be safeguarded (I'm not 100% sure on this part; I've construed it this way so far). Ultimately, he argues with his superiors and storms out of the temple, partly wondering whether his rebelliousness was 'all him' (becoming Chaotic Good. Bear in mind Copper Dragons tend to be Chaotic Good).
His draconic heritage continues growing, and he discovers that he is capable of channeling arcane energies without training (grabs Sorcerer level). He researches his new-found power, to finally discover his heritage. With this knowledge, he decides that, for him, mental and physical perfection involve tapping further into his draconic blood, and coming as close as possible to a Copper Dragon (Dragon Disciple).
So, two questions:
1. Do the general rules/setting allow this?
2. Can I pull this off in PFS w/o raising eyebrows?
Hahaha, yes, I do plan to have fun (and lots of it!).
@Fromper: Yes, that's what I meant when I said I'd read "the Guides" (GtOP and PFSFG; bit confusing naming, but oh well).
About the wand, sounds good. I'll get CLW for now, and then Infernal Healing (I'll be splashing some sorc levels).
I'll bring my printed sheets from the relevant books, then. Although the last guide (4.2 GToP) says
"In order to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player
must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource
in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a
printout of the relevant pages from it, as well as a copy
of the current version of the Additional Resources list."
So, does this mean I can just show the watermarked pdf on my phone/ebook reader?
If any GMs can chime in, would be specially grateful.
Ah, sweet, thank you Gauss and Sangalor. So basically, I'd get three attacks at +13/+8/+13.
That's not too shabby.
@Sangalor: Thanks for the extra info re: flurry, I was a bit curious on how it worked in practice (this char is actually MoMS, so, no flurry, but good to know for later).
If you liked the game - tell your GM and your fellow players after the game that you did. This works after the game, via text or e-mail.
If you are at a convention and leave for drinks from the bar - ask the GM if he wants something as well. I'm not saying you need to buy him/her a drink. But you often don't have the opportunity to leave while glued to the GM chair and prepare the next encounter while the players take a five minute break.
No - neither of the two suggestions is expected - but it leaves a nice impression with fellow gamers and the GM.
Sounds reasonable though!
Ah, just to confirm: If all I use are the CRB, APG, UC, UM, ARG, these are considered "core" books, right? So, I don't have to bring printouts of anything I use from them?
@SlimGauge: I was wondering what the actual distinction was, Snake Fang seemed so much better than Crane, while Crane seems to be lauded left and right.
@Cheapy/Sangalor: Well, the damage is already done (re: the 1st char + styles). I already fell in love and planned all 12 levels of the char 8). After getting 2-3 iterations of the character ripped apart in a separate thread (in a nice way, I should say!), I think I was able to whip it into working condition. If anyone wants to chime in and help improve the build, check the last post in this thread.
So, the million dollar question: can this iteration of the character make it in PFS? Will he be fun to play as, and with (i.e., for others at the table)?
