Edit: no, before you ask, it's not misspelled!
So.
HazzaH
It... looks really sweet.
Also, it has a kickstarter.
Give them your money. Please! I want that App!
What do you guys think?
EDIT:
So my wife reminded me to mention, you're guaranteed the App for a $10 donation, and it comes with the PRD rules, complete with character generator, dice roller, and (I believe) a battle map. $10. Yours forever. No subscription! C'mon guys! This is awesome!
Seriously? Nothing? I thought this would be pretty awesome!
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It's definitely the most ambitious app I've ever seen. Just wondering how feasible it'd be. 50k is a lot to ask for in a market that's not exactly abundant in players with money to spare (still gotta buy PDFs or hard covers lol) or using apple products.
Nonetheless, will pledge after payday. The idea is still pretty awesome.
It's an Apple-only product and I'm not going to invest now just to hope that we reach a stretch goal to use it on my Android.
Interesting idea, but it should be android and apple right off the bat.
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hope this one works out
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This looks like a great App. I'd love to have the character generator, dice roller, etc. Also, the easy access to Pathfinder rules is sweet! I'm pledged. :)
I don't have either an iPhone or an iPad. So, no joy here.
MA
New tech is not always a good thing, even phone apps to help gaming. Seen it go bad man, seen it go bad.
I am pretty convinced it is for people too lazy to organise and fill out physical character sheets. Trend has been heading in this direction for a while with plenty of apps of a similar nature already.
Tell me when they announce a WM7 or android app
New tech is not always a good thing, even phone apps to help gaming. Seen it go bad man, seen it go bad.
I am pretty convinced it is for people too lazy to organise and fill out physical character sheets. Trend has been heading in this direction for a while with plenty of apps of a similar nature already.
This? This is a silly, petty post that does not actually do anything except insult people.
No: new tech is not always a good thing. That's kind of obvious.
Also: thanks for calling everyone who likes the convenience and portability of a hand-held system instead of a mountain of books lazy. (Please note, the previous sentence was positively laden with irony, primarily revolving around the use of the word "thanks", because, quite frankly, there is nothing to be thankful for.)
For everyone else: personally, I'm really excited and look forward to seeing that app!
Oh no, I was silly.
I've seen what I am talking about, so go deal with that, because I did.
The game was over multiple weeks brought to a shuddering, dying, halt, by tech meant to make things convenient, help the game along, assist the players. They abused it to check fb, message friends, play other games. Some can not be trusted to separate some entertainment from other entertainments. I wasn't the dm, just a player observing. The dm had to come down on it eventually, and he had created the problem by allowing as much tech as people wanted. Oh look, new apps, oh look bring your laptop.
The poor guy.
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Phrasing was a bit absolute. I think what loyalist meant was for it to apply to SOME people who are too lazy to fill out physical character sheets. Those who use alot of tech are not necessarily lazy and does who use very little tech are not necessarily mentally challenged. That sort of thing.
Yes, you shouldn't rock the boat and point out potential problems of new tech for gaming. It isn't right to spoil someone's strawberry-topping fantasy.
The potential for distraction goes way up, that is part of what I was getting at. As you are rolling d20s on your phone, the dm and others also can't see what you are rolling, making it less a shared dice rolling and gaming experience. I've seen players use laptop and phone based dice rollers, click, and tell the dm. Well isn't that just mechanical. Where is the joy of rolling the dice on tables? Tech takes away a lot, and the game changes, but new tech always has enthusiasts.
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The equalizer, I would just like to say, "Thank you." You took a heated situation and stepped in to more or less say, "Calm down." I needed that. So, thank you.
3.5 Loyalist, I would first like to apologize for the aggressive tone in my response. I was off base with that. However, I would like to explain: that I really don't like it when people insult others, especially in broad generalizations. That's what I was upset with.
Second, I am going to respond to you, fully, because you do have some good points (your specified experience), but also some bad (your presumptions). So! Here we go. (Spoilered 'cause it's looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong. Ignore it if you prefer, everyone who's not 3.5 Loyalist.)
Oh no, I was silly.
Yes! You were! But it's okay, as I've been silly too, in my time!
I've seen what I am talking about, so go deal with that, because I did.
You've actually seen people using this App? Funny, because it doesn't fully exist yet, that I can tell.
The game was over multiple weeks brought to a shuddering, dying, halt, by tech meant to make things convenient, help the game along, assist the players. They abused it to check fb, message friends, play other games. Some can not be trusted to separate some entertainment from other entertainments. I wasn't the dm, just a player observing. The dm had to come down on it eventually, and he had created the problem by allowing as much tech as people wanted. Oh look, new apps, oh look bring your laptop.
The poor guy.
Ah. So your problem is not with the App (or with technology), but rather with the distraction that social media and the internet can cause in those who are used to using it. So it has nothing to do with laziness, and everything to do with distraction. Got it.
Now, that would make a much better thing to talk about on this subject. Pointing out how things like this can lead to distraction by way of internet access, because that's what happened.
Instead, what you've done, even in this post, is belittle others, in general, and used very provocative wording such as "abused" and "can not be trusted".
(Also, worth noting, this does not run on a laptop, but rather tablets and phones. Just in case you were too busy decrying all tech to actually, you know, check the link and read stuff over.)
Yes, you shouldn't rock the boat and point out potential problems of new tech for gaming. It isn't right to spoil someone's strawberry-topping fantasy.
No, you can point to potential problems. I have no idea what that has to do with strawberry-topping fantasy, though. Unless you're referring to Candyland. Man, that game is vicious.
The error you made, for which I responded overly-aggressively, is that you insulted people you don't know due to your own bad experience. Feeling like this tech could lead to distraction and expressing that view? Totally a valid thing to do! Equating your poor experience with laziness and bad interpersonal skills on the part of all who would use tech for gaming? Totally invalid!
The potential for distraction goes way up, that is part of what I was getting at. As you are rolling d20s on your phone, the dm and others also can't see what you are rolling, making it less a shared dice rolling and gaming experience. I've seen players use laptop and phone based dice rollers, click, and tell the dm. Well isn't that just mechanical. Where is the joy of rolling the dice on tables? Tech takes away a lot, and the game changes, but new tech always has enthusiasts.
Allow me to say that the first sentence in this quote: perfect. That is an excellent way to phrase your objection, and it doesn't place any insult or belittlement on anyone. Well done.
As to your second point, you must have missed the part where the dice are rolled from your phone onto the GM's iPad. In other words: yes, the GM can see what you rolled (at least, if that video is any indication)!
As far as "the joy of rolling the dice on tables"...
1) ... the App in question claims to use a physics-based dice-roller program. You roll the dice on a digital table. Fun!
2) ... some people can't afford all the peripherals, lose their dice, or game in places where rolling dice is inconvenient. (We did, when I was in Miami. Barnes and Nobles had really small tables for rolling dice.)
3) ... some people enjoy utilizing tech, and don't find the "mechanical" aspect any less involving than the "mechanical" aspect of rolling dice. (In other words, there are a host of different tastes.)
Here's the thing. New tech comes with its own host of problems. It always has. People, on the other hand, adapt to it. It doesn't always turn out good. Of course it doesn't! But the way you structured much of your argument is... poor. It was done with insults and broad presumptions, even if you didn't mean to.
Your experience? Totally a valid, real thing.
On the other hand, I've had several sessions with people who, during their off time, wouldn't stop playing with dice, couldn't concentrate on combat or social interaction because they were too busy drawing all over their sheets, were creating a different character, or were reading a book.
I've also had several great experiences with one or two people using laptops (the dreaded "tech"!).
I've also had a couple lousy experience with one or two people being distracted by tech-stuff.
I've also had many great experiences without tech.
Right now in my games, I use my iPad, frequently, to have the d20PFSRD on, pretty much the entire time we're playing. It's a pretty awesome tool to have at the ready, and I've been able to resolve rules conflicts quickly and efficiently, look up monster stats (when GM), and perform other nifty tasks far more rapidly than using the book. And I know the book pretty well!
My point is, I'm not being lazy... I'm being pragmatic. Time is very valuable. I have a one-year-old child. My wife usually works late at her job. It's really difficult to get people who want to play together at the same time, as life usually gets in the way. Using tech, in this case, helps the game be better.
To bring more perspective: I've got ADD, pretty bad, and it's been getting worse as I age. But because I'm not addicted to checking facebook, email, and the like (though I am these boards!), using the iPad really doesn't present the distraction that it may for some. Instead, it's become a great tool that helps me maximize my time and energy, and to bring focus back to the table when rules questions would otherwise pop up.
If I and my players (or my GM, when I'm the player) can have more tools at our disposals to make our game better and run more quickly and smoothly: that's a good thing. We don't have much time to play anymore, so we've got to use the tools we have to make it happen more quickly.
Your experience is real... but so is mine. Given that one of us could really use something exactly like what's being offered here, I'd much rather it be in existence than not. I mean, I don't necessarily want everything that Paizo offers, myself. But if someone's going to get great use out of it, I'd much rather it exist, than not!
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To bring more perspective: I've got ADD, pretty bad, and it's been getting worse as I age. But because I'm not addicted to checking facebook, email, and the like (though I am these boards!), using the iPad really doesn't present the distraction that it may for some. Instead, it's become a great tool that helps me maximize my time and energy, and to bring focus back to the table when rules questions would otherwise pop up.
I'd just like to respond because of this particular quote. I also have ADD, and have issues with taking any meds for it do to previous experiences with some of said meds, meaning I have to deal with it as best I can. And mine is HORRIBLE. Frankly, I could NOT play if I didn't have my iPad at the table with me. Yes, I store my character sheet on it. Yes, I store all of my books on it. No, I do not roll dice on it (I love the feel and sound of actual dice, and no speaker can quite replicate that sound properly, and it certainly can't replicate the feel). But I do far more than game on it.
Distractions aren't always a bad thing. I am pretty much incapable of focusing on one thing at a time. I've been known to quite literally read two or three books at the same time, because it's what my brain wants to do, and I'm not the only person like this. I understand that for some people, distractions are horrible, but they are required to function for some of us. Generally, I have solitaire and a browser open on my iPad while playing, and it does not prevent me from keeping up with what's going on. Quite the opposite. It helps me keep up with what's going on, because it keeps the wandering portions of my brain occupied so I can actually process what's going on.
So just shooting down tech because it's tech really isn't fair. It has its place. And it's amazing. I'm not sure I'd use this particular app (doing too much, and since I don't have any current method of an external display for my iPad where I game, there's no use to the maps for me), but it shouldn't be faulted just for being tech.
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Hmm, the stretch goals include and Android version. Interesting.
Not the app, what I was referring to Tac, you know that. Tech getting in the way of gaming. More tech, even apps that seem fantastic, can lead to greater problems.
Shhhh, you can say your points in a lot shorter post.
*Keeps reading*
Jeez you took a long time on this. It isn't an essay son.
Many threads ago, there was a chap that had a set of rules. Now these rules for his games got pretty Draconian, but one involved all being parted from their phones, so that they could focus on the game. If your sheet and your dice roller and whatever else the app has are on your phone. You are not putting down your phone to game. It is in your hand! Which will mean, calls, messaging back and forth, probably net browsing as well, maybe some angry birds and quite possibly other games.
I get you are into the app, I get you love all the new tech. When you are looking at your phone and cycling through it, ah you get a message and respond to that, well I've got it in my hand I'll reply now, you are not looking at the dm or roleplaying, you are tech fondling.
When players fondle their tech, they are not in the game. Then they ask "what just happened?"
Apologies I didn't read your full post. It was too damn long.
Apologies I didn't read your full post. It was too damn long.
That's... pretty much exactly the problem, man! (But, yeah, I talk/type a lot. Reference essays: blame my professors. They made me do it! )
Anyway, here's the deal: the stuff you're not reading: it directly responds to many of your complaints and issues. But, if you want to get to the heart of it...
To bring more perspective: I've got ADD, pretty bad, and it's been getting worse as I age. But because I'm not addicted to checking facebook, email, and the like (though I am these boards!), using the iPad really doesn't present the distraction that it may for some. Instead, it's become a great tool that helps me maximize my time and energy, and to bring focus back to the table when rules questions would otherwise pop up.
If I and my players (or my GM, when I'm the player) can have more tools at our disposals to make our game better and run more quickly and smoothly: that's a good thing. We don't have much time to play anymore, so we've got to use the tools we have to make it happen more quickly.
Your experience is real... but so is mine. Given that one of us could really use something exactly like what's being offered here, I'd much rather it be in existence than not. I mean, I don't necessarily want everything that Paizo offers, myself. But if someone's going to get great use out of it, I'd much rather it exist, than not!
That pretty much sums it up. "Fondling tech" is disingenuous, because it implies that the tech automatically becomes more important than the game. That's not necessarily true at all. It can be distracting, sure. But the way you're presenting this presumes that this causes problems for all groups and that is, quite frankly, not true.
MaverickWolf, had a a great point, too, that is, that some people need the distraction to function well. Others don't have the problem with the distractions. Still others, it could be an issue.
So... you are going to use one example of an ADD gamer using tech to stay on track, to try and convince me that apps and more tech can be used for the benefit of gaming? When I've seen more than a single example of tech screwing the game up, damaging the telling of the story and those same people people using that tech not knowing what was going on, because they were distracted by it.
It is good it works for that one person, but we only has his word that it works for him. How do we know, he is actually really paying attention as he distracts himself with other things? It allows him to sit at the table, but how much is in the game? Because I can tell you, and I have been telling you, participation in multiple entertainments screw up participation in one entertainment.
This was quite a big debate a few years back, on new tech, distraction and learning. I am sure you can find some things on this if you haven't already.
Apologies I didn't read your full post. It was too damn long.That's... pretty much exactly the problem, man! (But, yeah, I talk/type a lot. Reference essays: blame my professors. They made me do it! )
Anyway, here's the deal: the stuff you're not reading: it directly responds to many of your complaints and issues. But, if you want to get to the heart of it...
To bring more perspective: I've got ADD, pretty bad, and it's been getting worse as I age. But because I'm not addicted to checking facebook, email, and the like (though I am these boards!), using the iPad really doesn't present the distraction that it may for some. Instead, it's become a great tool that helps me maximize my time and energy, and to bring focus back to the table when rules questions would otherwise pop up.
If I and my players (or my GM, when I'm the player) can have more tools at our disposals to make our game better and run more quickly and smoothly: that's a good thing. We don't have much time to play anymore, so we've got to use the tools we have to make it happen more quickly.
Your experience is real... but so is mine. Given that one of us could really use something exactly like what's being offered here, I'd much rather it be in existence than not. I mean, I don't necessarily want everything that Paizo offers, myself. But if someone's going to get great use out of it, I'd much rather it exist, than not!
That pretty much sums it up. "Fondling tech" is disingenuous, because it implies that the tech automatically becomes more important than the game. That's not necessarily true at all. It can be distracting, sure. But the way you're presenting this presumes that this causes problems for all groups and that is, quite frankly, not true.
MaverickWolf, had a a great point, too, that is, that some people need the distraction to function well. Others don't have the problem with the...
Showing my hand, what I've got, is 3 out of 4 players bringing their laptops and their phones to games, over months (two had gaming apps and gaming data on their phones). They'd take calls, they'd message, they would play games and check fb. They slowed the game to a crawl, and in their tech absorption, they could not see how disrespectful they were being to the dm, and to the other player (me). Would constantly have to brief them as to what just happened, they would miss whole rounds. They kept their sheets on their laptops, so their numbers where in order, but they were so often so disconnected from the game. Oh they wanted to play, and they were interested, but they lugged their tech baggage with them everywhere, and were terrible players as a result.
We need to go more old-school, to stay focused on the game. The apps and tech always kept close is a problem I've seen as a dm and a player. Course, I am a bit of an old revivalist here, I still use paper and dice.
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Yeah, I did find those.
And no, I didn't use just one example. As you said, you didn't really read my original post: I am one example, it works out great for my group, in general, and it actively aids MaverickWolf. That's more than "one example of an ADD gamer"... at the very least, that's two (including me) and several non-ADD people who tech at the table has helped.
So, given all those examples, yeah, I'm going to try and convince that it's not always bad. It can be (I've seen that too), but I've also seen no tech = distraction to the point of no game. It's about the group composition, the players, and who can handle what.
It hasn't worked for you. That's fine. But tech's worked for me, my group, and at least one more guy more often than not.
Dms can waste a lot of time with laptops too "just let me check one more thing". Although the biggest problems are from multi-tasking players.
Of course, anyone can, in theory. But in practice, I have a lot of useful experiences with tech in games. So, I'm really looking forward to this!
Bump for more exposure!
Bump again!
I don't think we're going to make it TL.
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I don't think we're going to make it TL.
... I think you're right, but I keep trying!
EDIT: also, thanks, Liz
Hmm, if they'd started with Android or made it part of the base (not a Stretch Goal) I'd be interested. Apple-only cuts out too much of the market.