As far as I can tell you can use the amulet and the wraps at the same time, is it in the same slot?
Not the same slot (Body and Neck slots, respectively)... however, they both give Enhancement Bonuses to the same thing. Therefore, they should not stack, correct?
"Bonus (Enhancement)
An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC, they don't apply against touch attacks."
However, I suppose you could combine them in the sense that you got your special magic properties from the AoMF and the Enhancement bonus to unarmed attacks from the Bodywraps... but that's still INSANELY expensive just to enhance your unarmed attacks, not to mention that anything you get from the Bodywraps don't work on every attack.
Also, you have to pass up on the Monk's Robe or other goodies.
So pretty and so many things.
Sadly no agile weapons - which makes me sad for the one group that I play in that only uses the core books.
So did they include any of these:
Blank Journal/Notebook/Book for writing in.
Maps
Belt for oils/potions where these items can be drawn as a swift or free action
Bandolier for scrolls or other stuff
Some new cool items for low level Characters
A bayonet that doesn't render crossbows temporarily useless as ranged weapons.
Stuff for Archetypes: Guide, etc.
Cleric: Amulet of undead turning?
Stuff for bards:
Marshal amp and les Paul guitars? Or Vox Amp and Fender?
Stuff that boost Bardic performance
As far as I can tell you can use the amulet and the wraps at the same time, is it in the same slot?Not the same slot (Body and Neck slots, respectively)... however, they both give Enhancement Bonuses to the same thing. Therefore, they should not stack, correct?
"Bonus (Enhancement)
An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC, they don't apply against touch attacks."
However, I suppose you could combine them in the sense that you got your special magic properties from the AoMF and the Enhancement bonus to unarmed attacks from the Bodywraps... but that's still INSANELY expensive just to enhance your unarmed attacks, not to mention that anything you get from the Bodywraps don't work on every attack.
Also, you have to pass up on the Monk's Robe or other goodies.
Could you use the bodywrap bonus on some attacks and the AoMF bonus on those not covered by the bodywrap?
And yeah, you expected new items... it has new items... What's the complaint? Aside from the perceived mediocrity of the bandage wraps, which I honestly have no opinion about because I haven't done any math behind it or playtesting yet.My complaint is that for the full price of a hardcover 400 page Pathfinder Core rulebook I expected more new gear than what was in the softcover 33 page Adventurer's Armory. This very much included arms and armor, which is the first thing that Fantasy RPG players think of when presented with an equipment crunch book.
I didn't get that.The only thing that the Ultimate Equipment book has over the AA is new magic items, but it also failed to include some of the more popular published material while inventing new material that wasn't very well thought out.
As for the Bodywraps, you don't need to do any complex math or playtest it. Just read it. We aren't talking about the delicate balance of features inherent in a new 20 level base class. This is a simple magic item that does what it says on the tin.
To rub salt into the wounds of the Monk players, they even gave us the Brawling magic armor property (which is available to view in one of the more recent UE previews). This gives a nice boost to everyone using Unarmed combat EXCEPT for the monk.
BTW, I previously gave the Cat as an example of something that we didn't have a price of? Now that I look over my copy of AA, I was wrong... they have a lot of the animal prices in there already.
Honestly as far as more Arms and Armor goes, I think there comes a point where it is really difficult to add more. Imagination wise, you really start to run out of real-world items to use before you start reskinning items (see the cutlass). I think it's easier to come up with magic items because there, you aren't limited and you can be as creative as you want. That's why you see more magic items, alchemical items, etc in these kinds of books. There's only so many times you can rename full plate before you just decided "f- it, this is enough".
And as for playtesting, I always theorycraft and playtest before expressing concerns about the balance of anything, whether it's an item, class, or monster. I don't believe in running to the forums and using hyperbole and insults to express my opinion on something. Note, this isn't targeting anyone in the thread in particular, including yourself. Just a general impression I get from people on the Internet as a whole :).
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As far as I can tell you can use the amulet and the wraps at the same time, is it in the same slot?Not the same slot (Body and Neck slots, respectively)... however, they both give Enhancement Bonuses to the same thing. Therefore, they should not stack, correct?
A +2 amulet and +2 wraps don't work together, but +1 flaming wraps work with a shocking amulet giving you +1 flaming/ shocking on your wrap attacks and shocking on the remaining attacks. It doesn't affect all the attacks, but it also doesn't cost near as much as even a +2 equivalent amulet.
Any light armor that the monk can wear and still keep flurry, etc?
Nope we have a strict wear armor lose most of the class caveat.
Bracers of armor. Not sure if the "light armor only" caveat precludes it from being placed on them, though.
Bracers of armor. Not sure if the "light armor only" caveat precludes it from being placed on them, though.
Sorry, I'm afraid that doesn't work.
Bracers of armor do not count as light armor I am afraid.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Nope we have a strict wear armor lose most of the class caveat.
Meaning the monk can't use the Brawling Ability.
If I was a Monk lover I would probably have a fit right now.Belt for oils/potions where these items can be drawn as a swift or free action?
Bandolier (for scrolls or other stuff)?
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Honestly as far as more Arms and Armor goes, I think there comes a point where it is really difficult to add more. Imagination wise, you really start to run out of real-world items to use before you start reskinning items (see the cutlass).
I don't think I agree with that. There are many examples in 3.0, 3.5, and even 4th Edition that aren't yet represented in Pathfinder. I'll admit, I was looking forward in some vain hope for some conversions. I knew it was a long shot, so I can't be too disappointed. But suffice it to say, there were options out there.
The longstanding issues with existing gear not being addressed upset me even more.
Even looking at recent additions, like the Nodachi or Tetsubo. An overpowered Martial weapon and an underpowered Exotic weapon. Why couldn't that be addressed?
Or what about the Double-Barreled Musket still having a range of only 10ft while the Double-Barreled Pistol has a range of 20ft?
Someone also brought up the Scorpion Whip, and the issues that carried over. There are other examples as well.
Oh well, I think I'm just getting too worked up over this right now. I need to sleep on it and look at the book fresh. I really do appreciate Paizo, and I'm not usually the one to have negative knee-jerk reactions to their products. This is actually really out of character for me.
So off to bed with me and I'll eventually comment again with a more matured opinion once I've had time to really digest the book. I know that, for me, part of that doesn't really happen until I get the physical book in my hands, so we'll see when that is.
Thanks for your patience, and I still encourage everyone to give the book a chance when they can. This might not have been what I was looking for, but for others it might be perfect.
Cheers.
There are plenty of new things that could have been done: and it would have been wonderful to have fixed, correct, errata'd information in one place. But they didn't.
Where's my basket hilts? Simple weapon add-on that gives your sword a new minor property . . . like dealing 1d3 lethal bludgeoning damage or a +2 bonus vs. disarm or some stuff like.
All kinds of stuff like that should have been in there, but it wasn't.
Sorry, Team P, this one gets a 3, 3, 3, 3, and 0.5 from the East German Judge.
Master Arminas
So did they include any of these:
Blank Journal/Notebook/Book for writing in. <- journal is from pg 67 and on pg 62 there is a Chronicler's Kit which has a bunch of fun things.
Maps <- Area map (pg 58)
Bandolier for scrolls or other stuff <- bandolier (pg 59) can hold flask or small dagger sized items (not sure if your gm would all scrolls, but I would)
Something no one has asked for but that amuses me is the Blue Book on pg 60. And more answers later... when I don't have to run off to work.
Meaning the monk can't use the Brawling Ability.
If I was a Monk lover I would probably have a fit right now.Belt for oils/potions where these items can be drawn as a swift or free action?
Bandolier (for scrolls or other stuff)?
As a final spoiler, there is a Bandolier...
WEIGHT —
This leather belt is worn over one shoulder and runs
diagonally across the chest and back. It has small loops
or pouches for holding eight objects the size of a flask
or small dagger. You can use the “retrieve a stored item”
action to take an item from a bandolier. You can wear up to
two bandoliers at the same time (any more than this and
they get in each other’s way and restrict your movement).
But that doesn't let you use potions or oils as a swift/free action.
You might like this new jacket (chest slot), however...
SIPPING JACKET
5,000 GP
Absorbent fibers line this heavy
canvas coat. Once per day as a
standard action, the wearer can pour
a potion onto this lining, suffusing
it into the coat. If the potion has an
instantaneous duration, the wearer
can activate the coat as a swift action
to consume the potion. If the potion’s
duration is measured in rounds, the wearer can activate the
coat as a swift action to gain the potion’s benefits for 1 round,
repeating as desired each round until the potion’s entire duration
has been used. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. The
coat absorbs only potions with instantaneous or round-based
durations, and only those which affect creatures (for example, it
does not work on oils). Once the coat absorbs a potion, the potion
cannot be retrieved from it, only used as described above. The
absorbed potion loses its powers after 24 hours, even if unused.
So did they include any of these:Blank Journal/Notebook/Book for writing in. <- journal is from pg 67 and on pg 62 there is a Chronicler's Kit which has a bunch of fun things.
Maps <- Area map (pg 58)
Bandolier for scrolls or other stuff <- bandolier (pg 59) can hold flask or small dagger sized items (not sure if your gm would all scrolls, but I would)
Something no one has asked for but that amuses me is the Blue Book on pg 60. And more answers later... when I don't have to run off to work.
Cool. Thanks. Can the Flask be drawn as a free action or Swift action (or even move action).
Blue book? For operations? ;-)
No blank book/notbok for writing in?
As a final spoiler, there is a Bandolier...
But that doesn't let you use potions or oils as a swift/free action.
:-(
You might like this new jacket (chest slot), however...
Thanks.
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Yup, there are blank books/journals you can buy and fill with whatever.
Drawing flasks take a Retrieve Stowed Item action.... so it's a move action.
The Blue Book lists all the local brothels, bars, and gambling dens in a city... which then gives you +2 to Knowledge(Local), Bluff, and limited Diplomacy checks for 24 hours in that city after you read it.
Oh, and the Bayonet is still in there... but it still renders the crossbow or firearm useless when it's attached (that always bugged me too).
Yup, there are blank books/journals you can buy and fill with whatever.
Drawing flasks take a Retrieve Stowed Item action.... so it's a move action.
The Blue Book lists all the local brothels, bars, and gambling dens in a city... which then gives you +2 to Knowledge(Local), Bluff, and limited Diplomacy checks for 24 hours in that city after you read it.
Oh, and the Bayonet is still in there... but it still renders the crossbow or firearm useless when it's attached (that always bugged me too).
Thank for all the answers :-)
The Blue Book is very Cool. I love such items.I don't understand why we can't have an item where you can draw a potions as swift actions or free actions. Even if I had to pick the quick draw feat I would love such item.
And the Bayonet, sigh.
Any Bard love?
Is there anything, ANYTHING archer related? New arrows, boots, bows, quiver, anything that an archer or ranger archer or fighter archer could use?
What about poisons?
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Uhhh, you're forgetting that the monk's bab = his class level when flurrying and that Paizo has stressed that they will NOT specifically invalidate core options. It's meant to emulate enhance one weapon. You want to enhance all your attacks? Well there's an item for that.I dunno, the spell Constricting Coils invalidates the spell Hold Monster because it's gained at the exact same level, and has the exact same effect, same duration, same range, plus it also does outright damage.
Hold Monster is a worthless spell since Constricting Coils was been released.
True, it's the only thing I know of that invalidates a core option, but it still has happened.
The only class that it invalidates is the Sor/Wiz, none of the other 4 classes that get Hold Monster get Constricting Coils.
So yes it makes the Sor/Wiz's Hold Monster a poor choice, but for Bards, Inquisitors, Summoners, and Witches it is still a valid choice.
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The devs have stated that any fixes to monk will not be "stealth fix via items", and will be undertaken after GenCon (read: long after UE was finalized), so anybody expecting UE to be the "Monk Fix Book" clearly needs some training in expectation management. Also, nerdrage control.
LOL, this is true. They are really setting a high bar for themselves, though: This monk fix had better be good.
Myself, I think I can see how the body wraps would be useful - use the AoMF to give you a base bonus to hit and damage, body-wraps at high level to provide special properties on some attacks.
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LOL, this is true. They are really setting a high bar for themselves, though: This monk fix had better be good.
Myself, I think I can see how the body wraps would be useful - use the AoMF to give you a base bonus to hit and damage, body-wraps at high level to provide special properties on some attacks.
I would suggest the other way around. The wraps require the base +1 enhancement before you can add special properties which the amulet does not.
Any cool magical cloaks, gloves, boots?
Did any magical thirdeye(gem that attaches to forhead, counts as eye slot) items make it?
I would suggest the other way around. The wraps require the base +1 enhancement before you can add special properties which the amulet does not.LOL, this is true. They are really setting a high bar for themselves, though: This monk fix had better be good.
Myself, I think I can see how the body wraps would be useful - use the AoMF to give you a base bonus to hit and damage, body-wraps at high level to provide special properties on some attacks.
It can be useful :
- when used for off-hand non-weapon attacks.
- for AC, Eidolons and the like.
- combine it with AoMF
- GMs (monsters), I'd use it on mummies
- vicious enchantment
I would suggest the other way around. The wraps require the base +1 enhancement before you can add special properties which the amulet does not.LOL, this is true. They are really setting a high bar for themselves, though: This monk fix had better be good.
Myself, I think I can see how the body wraps would be useful - use the AoMF to give you a base bonus to hit and damage, body-wraps at high level to provide special properties on some attacks.
Except that it only applies to a limited number of blows.
Blow with +0 enhancement and effects = useless, because you aren't likely to hit.
Blow with +5 enhancement to hit and no effects = some use, because at least it can still connect.
Save it for higher levels because that's then the monk's robe becomes less useful.
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Yup, there are blank books/journals you can buy and fill with whatever.
Drawing flasks take a Retrieve Stowed Item action.... so it's a move action.
The Blue Book lists all the local brothels, bars, and gambling dens in a city... which then gives you +2 to Knowledge(Local), Bluff, and limited Diplomacy checks for 24 hours in that city after you read it.
Oh, and the Bayonet is still in there... but it still renders the crossbow or firearm useless when it's attached (that always bugged me too).
The original bayonet did render the weapon useless. It was refereed to as a Plug bayonet. You stuck it into the barrel bore and could not fire. The bayonet we all now that slips around the end of the barrel or below did not happen until the 1700's there about +/- 20 years
Now a crossbow it should and could be different
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet
I am thinking Paizo really needs to hire someone who is knowledgeable about weapons and armor and does research for them. You can have aspects of fantasy, but lets face it, every item in that book is based on what has existed though our own time periods
Yup, there are blank books/journals you can buy and fill with whatever.
Drawing flasks take a Retrieve Stowed Item action.... so it's a move action.
The Blue Book lists all the local brothels, bars, and gambling dens in a city... which then gives you +2 to Knowledge(Local), Bluff, and limited Diplomacy checks for 24 hours in that city after you read it.
Oh, and the Bayonet is still in there... but it still renders the crossbow or firearm useless when it's attached (that always bugged me too).
The original bayonet did render the weapon useless. It was refereed to as a Plug bayonet. You stuck it into the barrel bore and could not fire. The bayonet we all now that slips around the end of the barrel or below did not happen until the 1700's there about +/- 20 years
Now a crossbow it should and could be different
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet
I am thinking Paizo really needs to hire someone who is knowledgeable about weapons and armor and does research for them. You can have aspects of fantasy, but lets face it, every item in that book is based on what has existed though our own time periods
If experts agreed on what is and isn't fact then the threads on this forum wouldn't be nearly as long. *sarcasm*
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You can have aspects of fantasy, but lets face it, every item in that book is based on what has existed though our own time periodsOrc Double Axe, Dwarven Urgosh, Spiked Chain and Two-bladed Sword too?
Gnomish Battle Ladder!
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You can have aspects of fantasy, but lets face it, every item in that book is based on what has existed though our own time periodsOrc Double Axe, Dwarven Urgosh, Spiked Chain and Two-bladed Sword too?
Yes it is called the Battle Axe, The Great Axe, and yes there is a real double bladed sword. The spiked chain while heavily fantasy still has a modern counter part and I'd not be surprised to have seen some fool make one and try to use it
Now how useful would they be in real life? Not at all.
The Pilem in the book is SO wrong it's not even funny. The roman Pilem had a heavy shaft with a long thin metal tip that when it hit a shield would bend and render the shield useless. In reality IF a pilem hit a shield and you tried to remove it, you've be vulnerable for more than 1 standard action in pathfinder. In real it made a shield useless until after the battle when it could be removed and the shield repaired if it was repaired at all.
I think I would house rule that if hit by a pilem your shield is worthless unless you want to open yourself up for AOO that also make you flat footed.
You can have aspects of fantasy, but lets face it, every item in that book is based on what has existed though our own time periodsOrc Double Axe, Dwarven Urgosh, Spiked Chain and Two-bladed Sword too?
Yes it is called the Battle Axe, The Great Axe, and yes there is a real double bladed sword. The spiked chain while heavily fantasy still has a modern counter part and I'd not be surprised to have seen some fool make one and try to use it
Now how useful would they be in real life? Not at all.
The Pilem in the book is SO wrong it's not even funny. The roman Pilem had a heavy shaft with a long thin metal tip that when it hit a shield would bend and render the shield useless. In reality IF a pilem hit a shield and you tried to remove it, you've be vulnerable for more than 1 standard action in pathfinder. In real it made a shield useless until after the battle when it could be removed and the shield repaired if it was repaired at all.
I think I would house rule that if hit by a pilem your shield is worthless unless you want to open yourself up for AOO that also make you flat footed.
Pathfinder isn't a Historical Simulator. The weapons and armor don't and aren't historically accurate.
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You can have aspects of fantasy, but lets face it, every item in that book is based on what has existed though our own time periodsOrc Double Axe, Dwarven Urgosh, Spiked Chain and Two-bladed Sword too?
Yes it is called the Battle Axe, The Great Axe, and yes there is a real double bladed sword. The spiked chain while heavily fantasy still has a modern counter part and I'd not be surprised to have seen some fool make one and try to use it
Now how useful would they be in real life? Not at all.
The Pilem in the book is SO wrong it's not even funny. The roman Pilem had a heavy shaft with a long thin metal tip that when it hit a shield would bend and render the shield useless. In reality IF a pilem hit a shield and you tried to remove it, you've be vulnerable for more than 1 standard action in pathfinder. In real it made a shield useless until after the battle when it could be removed and the shield repaired if it was repaired at all.
I think I would house rule that if hit by a pilem your shield is worthless unless you want to open yourself up for AOO that also make you flat footed.
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Did you just tell me this existed IRL, because I am drinking hot coffee and would prefer not to snort it all over my keyboard?You can have aspects of fantasy, but lets face it, every item in that book is based on what has existed though our own time periodsOrc Double Axe, Dwarven Urgosh, Spiked Chain and Two-bladed Sword too?
Yes it is called the Battle Axe, The Great Axe, and yes there is a real double bladed sword. The spiked chain while heavily fantasy still has a modern counter part and I'd not be surprised to have seen some fool make one and try to use it
Now how useful would they be in real life? Not at all.
The Pilem in the book is SO wrong it's not even funny. The roman Pilem had a heavy shaft with a long thin metal tip that when it hit a shield would bend and render the shield useless. In reality IF a pilem hit a shield and you tried to remove it, you've be vulnerable for more than 1 standard action in pathfinder. In real it made a shield useless until after the battle when it could be removed and the shield repaired if it was repaired at all.
I think I would house rule that if hit by a pilem your shield is worthless unless you want to open yourself up for AOO that also make you flat footed.
NO, I said the great axe and battle axe are real. Put 2 heads one on each end of an axe and it would be worthless. The double headed axe is a total fantasy make up that I would laugh at and still laugh at from Paizo's end. Might as well as a machine axe thrower while at it.
Funny how so many are fan boys of this book, yet it offers nothing really new. The art? Not the best from Paizo. Had I known what it offered, I'd not have subscribe to get it. I'd have saved my money and maybe just gotten the pdf but not the HB. Even my BF was not impressed. So I know I am not the only one.
I find it hilarious that all the double weapons are due to the Phantom Menace making an effect on the designers of D&D 3.0.
Or so I've heard. Quick, some grognard should correct me!
Pathfinder isn't a Historical Simulator. The weapons and armor don't and aren't historically accurate.Spoiler alert: Neither are the spells.
What! But...I see spells all the time.
Overall I'm happy with the book, but I read through the previews and discussions and knew to expect "compilation of stuff from other books plus a few new things, plus treasure tables." And I got pretty much what I expected--which is all stuff I wanted. Heck, there is more than a few new things as far as I can tell -- bearing in mind I only own the RPG line and don't buy Chronicles or Companion stuff as a rule. But even if I did and there's stuff from those lines, it's nice to have all that stuff in one place, which is a big reason why I wanted this.
I have noticed some items that don't work well, but that's also within my expectations for a splatbook. My favorite issue so far, which I actually am laughing at more than feeling upset about, is that they've added this item -- the burglar's buckler (a unique magic shield).
Seems to be the perfect thing for thief-oriented rogues... except rogues aren't proficient in shields.
plus treasure tables."
The notice of that in the previews was enough to make me happy.
That and being able to hand the book to players and say, all the gear stuff is in here. (Which is why I was sad about the lack of agile... oh well... just have to make a list of the things not in there.)
Seems to be the perfect thing for thief-oriented rogues... except rogues aren't proficient in shields.
Masterwork bucklers don't have an armor check penalty, so it makes little difference if you're proficient or not.
Hogarth: Gotta love a wizard or rogue with a Mithral or Masterwork buckler. No penalties despite non-proficiency. :D
- Gauss
dangerous buckles as will don't have a ACP.