Archer wizard advice


Advice


Hello all. I'm rolling up a backup character for our campaign. He is an Elven wizard. I would like him to be a decent archer as well as spellcaster because I'd like to be able to help out in situations where magic is either unavailable or discouraged. In our game world arcane magic is frowned upon by most people and wizards are treated with fear and suspicion. My wizard has taken up archery as a way to help hide his powers.

My guys stats are

Str: 12
Dex: 16 (18)
Con: 15 (13)
Int: 18 (20)
Wis: 14
Cha:13

I don't have much experience with wizards so I'm not sure how less effective I would be taking non-magic feats. I also can't decide between the Divination, Illusion, or Transmutation schools. My opposition schools will be Enchantment and Necromancy.

I'd like some feat suggestions as well as advice on which school would work best. The only feats I'm avoiding for sure are item creation feats, Eschew Materials, and Arcane Strike. We are only allowed to use the Core Rulebook and I'd like to know which archery feats also work with blast spells, if any.

Grand Lodge

Choose a revolver as your arcane bond.


Oops, I should have mentioned no guns.

Grand Lodge

Point Blank shot works with all ranged attacks, including ranged touch spells. I suggest carrying a net or two, as touch ac is easy to hit, and it makes the target a nice target for your heavy hitters.

Liberty's Edge

Core rulebook only eliminates most of the major archery feats. That said, if you are looking for 'archery that works with blast spells' then the Arcane Archer prestige class (in the Core book) is pretty much the only game in town.

Grand Lodge

Actually, no matter which way you go, grab some nets, they are awesome.


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For an archer, transmutation might be best. Reduce Person, Cat's Grace, haste, Fly and Greater Magic Weapon are all great aids for an archer. A baseline might look something like this:

Wizard1
Wizard2
Wizard3
Wizard4
Wizard5
Fighter1
Eldritch Knight1
Eldritch Knight2
Eldritch Knight3
Arcane Archer1
Arcane Archer2
Arcane Archer3
Arcane Archer4
Eldritch Knight4
Eldritch Knight5
Eldritch Knight6
Eldritch Knight7
Eldritch Knight8
Eldritch Knight9
Eldritch Knight10

This would give you +16 BAB, 9th level spells etc. But as most campaigns doesn't go all the way till level 20, you might want to change it up a bit. Fighter4/Wiz2 lets you enter Arcane Archer at level 7, but your spellcasting will be hurt.

Sovereign Court

It depends a bit on how your DM handles combat and on the composition of the rest of your team. Basically, before going Eldritch Knight and/or Arcane Archer, you have a choice between mostly Fighter and mostly Wizard.

If your DM usually gives you the opportunity to buff before you're in the thick of combat, or if your team is lacking in the magic department, you'll probably want to be mostly Wizard; your damage will take a hit compared to fighter, but with some buffs up, your to-hit will be comparable and you'll have a lovely toolkit to get past enemy defenses. Also, if your group lacks an arcane caster, you can fill the gap.

On the other hand, if your DM likes to dump you into combat without notice, or your team already has a couple of casters, you'd be better off with mostly Fighter. That way you get better survivability via a hit die that's almost twice as big, and your bonuses will be static, so you don't have to spend time buffing to be able to hit the enemy.

Really, it comes down to this: do you want to be better at dealing damage, or have a better ability toolbox?


I feel really stupid for not posting relevant house rules in my original post. I would edit it but I think I ran out of time to edit my post.

We aren't allowed to multiclass or prestige class. Guns are not allowed. I believe our Arcane Bond must be with a familiar because instead of material components a spell caster instead uses a talisman to cast their spells, similar to what a Bonded Item does. We don't use sorcerors and Wizards are spontaneous casters with access to any spell on their list that they are high enough level to cast.

I'm not looking to blend bow and magic as much as I'm looking to be a spellcaster that is adequate with a bow. Our party will often find itself in situations where using magic isn't a good idea, whether it be an encounter in town or an ambush where I wouldn't want to be an immediate target. Being good with a bow keeps me from being a complete liability to the party in these situations.

To answer Reynard's question I guess what I'm looking for is a bigger toolbox. I know that as a Wizard there is just no way for me to keep up with other classes in the archery department, but I'm also not worried about jacking spell DC's through the roof.


Oh - wow, sounds like there's no reason to not be a wizard in your world:D

Shadow Lodge

if you are limited to a single class, only have crb as a source for feats, and no Prc to choose from, you shouldnt even be asking for help lol. assuming you have the book in front of you, you will see the only options you have are:

point blank shot
precise shot
rapid shot
many shot
dead eye shot

those are the only archer feats worth taking. i may be forgetting one, but thats the jist of it.

i would choose conjuration spec and focus on summon monster, then pepper people with a bow. invisibility (or vanish) then summon monster would be your first 2 rounds if you dont want to be "seen" casting a spell.

personally i would say screw the wizard, and go with a cleric, bard, or a druid if you want to cast spells and use a bow.


Not sure what level your archer wizard is...

Sidekick's suggestions are pretty good, but there are things beyond feats to think about.

First you will need to gain proficiency with a bow, unless your house rules already provide that. You can do that with the heirloom weapon trait (although it is only a single bow), or you can choose a race with bow proficiency (like elf). Or you can go human and use the bonus feat to gain bow proficiency. I like the flavor of the trait, and it gives you more options. But you have to protect your bow since it's the only one you can use. Luckily you can use masterwork transformation on the bow later and even enchant it, but for now, you just need a bow.

You will need a decent dexterity score, I would say at least 14 and 16 would be better. Dex is a double-plus goodness stat for an archer wizard since it also boosts AC.

Unless you have a 30 point buy you simply aren't going to be able to boost strength enough to utilize a str adjusted composite bow, so I would just forget about that and focus on hitting things with your arrows. There are some nice spells that help archer wizards be better archers. Spells which boost dex are good spells to know.

You can wear light armor and just eat the spell failure chance. I've had wizards who took that approach and it's not terrible. You do risk losing a spell at a critical time, but you significantly boost your survivability. And you can always take the armor off when you want to go full-on wizard. I used to use "mage armor" until it wore off, then put on my leather armor.

You will likely want an energy damage boosting bow as soon as possible. I recommend a shocking bow since fire and cold are the most commonly resisted energy types, but this is flavorful as well.

Point blank shot and precise shot are the two absolutely necessary feats for you to take. You may not have a high enough dex to take manyshot. If your dex is high enough, then rapid shot and manyshot are your next two to take.

Those will make you a competent archer who at least can hit a target with a bow frequently enough to not feel useless.

Beyond that you will need to decide whether you want to go full-on archer or if you want to invest future feats in wizardly things.

I love playing archer wizards. I think you'll have fun too.


Canoy wrote:
For an archer, transmutation might be best. Reduce Person, Cat's Grace, haste, Fly and Greater Magic Weapon are all great aids for an archer.

I agree with transmutation for wizard/archer.


As a wizard who wants to be competent with a bow, definitely take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Your bow damage still won't be much to write home about, but the feats will also work with ranged attack spells, and Precise Shot will be very helpful when trying to hit targets in melee.


Alright guys, here's what I'm thinking so far. This is going to be a backup character so so I statted him out to level 12. I won't know when I'll need him. I used 2 ability points on Intelligence and one on constitution.

Elf Wizard 12

Str: 12
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 22
Wis: 14
Cha:13

Feats:
1:Point Blank Shot
Bonus: Scribe Scroll
3: Precise Shot
5: Weapon Focus (longbow)
Bonus: Silent Spell
7: Spell Focus (Illusion)
9: Greater Spell Focus (Illusion)
Bonus: Craft Wand
11: Spell Penetration

I'm going to go with the Divination school with Enchantment and Necromancy for my opposition schools.

I figure Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Weapon Focus along with my high Dex should keep me able to hit creatures when I do decide to shoot my bow. I like Silent Spell for those times when you just can't be heard. Illusions are tons of fun, especially when they work! Spell Penetration to help with SR.

I know he's not optimized but this build seems pretty solid to me. What do you guys think?


With a dex that high, I'd probably go for rapid shot and maybe even manyshot so that your full attacks are really competitive with the rest of the combat members of the party. I'd at least pick rapid shot over weapon focus (longbow). But that gives up a bit of wizarding power.

Sczarni

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow)

Wizard Feats: (assuming you can craft)Extend Spell/Craft Wondrous Item @ 5th, the other @ 10th, Quicken Spell @ 15th

I would actually suggest Illusionist as your specialty, since the Blinding Ray ability will take advantage of your comparatively decent Ranged Attack Bonus. The Invisibility Field ability at 8th level is simply one of the best "personal survivability" options available.

For tactics: When you CAN cast spells, use illusions to set up the battlefield/distract the enemies. Use arrows to provide the punchlines your crowd-control spells set up.

I'd drop Necromancy & Enchantment, especially if Wizards are seen as creepy/scary/shoot-on-sight folks. Keep your remaining spells subtle (Mage Armor & Shield, Blur/Displacement, Summons, Image spells) and dress as a "rogue," "ranger," or "hunter/trapper" fellow.

I would consider dropping your Int to 18 & pumping Str up to 14, simply to take better advantage of the composite longbow bonuses.


lalallaalal wrote:
I'm going to go with the Divination school with Enchantment and Necromancy for my opposition schools.

With the house rules you guys are using, Wizards don't seem to need a whole lot of help anyway; your specialty won't make or break you, and being able to spontaneously cast from your whole list makes the bonus granted spells irrelevant in choosing a specialty. Note that normal diviners should probably take either heighten/preferred or focus/spec/greater spell spec to spontaneously convert some of those redundant divination slots to your favorite spell; something the OP does not need to worry about.

Its not an option for you unfortunately, considering you'd need the APG for the subschool specialist options, but divination (foresight) spec is actually very potent as a part-time archer. Those pre-rolls (prescience) give you a GREAT idea of when you want to use the bow (like when you roll a 20 for an auto-threat). If you pre-roll low, just cast a spell instead.

That said, vanilla Diviner has VERY good perks (forewarned), and the normal disadvantage (the bonus spells you're granted being weaker than other specialties) is negated in your game, making it a great choice.

If it were me, I'd find a way to fit rapid shot and manyshot into your feat progression. They're not as good as they could be considering your attack bonus, but they're still solid, and help the archer 'feel'. Craft wand in particular is probably coming in way to late to do you much good; I'd drop that and delay spell focus/greater spell focus to fit them in.


Good stuff, I really appreciate the input. I'm going to keep my stats the same and I'm on the fence about going with Divination or Illusion for my school.

I've changed my feat selections too:

1:Point Blank Shot
Bonus: Scribe Scroll
3: Precise Shot
5: Rapid Shot
Bonus: Extend Spell
7: Spell Focus (Illusion)
9: Greater Spell Focus (Illusion)
Bonus: Silent Spell
11: Spell Penetration

I'm going to stay away from deadly aim and manyshot to increase my chances of hitting. I'm not worried about damage, I don't want to show up the party ranger ;)

This set up gives me good archery capabilities at the levels I'd need them most. Taking magic feats later on gives me better magical capabilities at the levels when I start getting more spells than I know what to do with.

I can't decided between divination and illusion. All 3 illusion abilities are good and useful at all levels. I really like the Forewarned ability for divination, and I like the 1st level buff, even if it's not that all that great.


psionichamster wrote:

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow)

I would recommend not taking deadly aim. Your wizard is a 1/2 BAB class. You need every attack point you can get.

Edit ninja'd by six minutes. Teach me to refresh my screen more often...


lalallaalal wrote:

Good stuff, I really appreciate the input. I'm going to keep my stats the same and I'm on the fence about going with Divination or Illusion for my school.

I've changed my feat selections too:

1:Point Blank Shot
Bonus: Scribe Scroll
3: Precise Shot
5: Rapid Shot
Bonus: Extend Spell
7: Spell Focus (Illusion)
9: Greater Spell Focus (Illusion)
Bonus: Silent Spell
11: Spell Penetration

I'm going to stay away from deadly aim and manyshot to increase my chances of hitting. I'm not worried about damage, I don't want to show up the party ranger ;)

This set up gives me good archery capabilities at the levels I'd need them most. Taking magic feats later on gives me better magical capabilities at the levels when I start getting more spells than I know what to do with.

I can't decided between divination and illusion. All 3 illusion abilities are good and useful at all levels. I really like the Forewarned ability for divination, and I like the 1st level buff, even if it's not that all that great.

I think this looks pretty good for the concept you've outlined. You might want to be sure to have "haste" as a spell for your wizard. That will just make him a better archer, as well as helping the rest of the party.


lalallaalal wrote:
I'm going to stay away from deadly aim and manyshot to increase my chances of hitting.

Manyshot doesn't reduce your chance to hit at all. It just makes your first shot hit twice as hard. It's free damage, and if you've gone that far in the chain, you may as well take it later on (you'll need to be 12th level to meet the BAB requirement). Deadly aim I agree you should avoid. And don't fret about the -2 penalty from rapid shot; the extra attack is virtually always worth the trade.

lalallaalal wrote:
I'm not worried about damage, I don't want to show up the party ranger ;)

Don't worry, you won't ;)

Otherwise, the build looks good for what you wanna do, and should perform just fine.


Get speciality arrows that pack a punch (bane for example) as one shots. Frequent use of True strike.

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