My pleasure.
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Just want to share my experience running this module for my players.
The party is exceptionally good at social skills. One of the party members is played by two players who alternate weeks due to work schedules. They have decided that the character has split personalites (Dio and Dianna) (half-elf bard). So the female personality has some points in Disguise.
The party uses this to pretend to be all female (really, really great disguise rolls. It was insane.) and make HUGE Intimidate, Bluff, and Diplomacy checks to convince the girls guarding the stairs on the 4th floor that they wanted to join. They proceeded to convince Ayala to give a private audience to discuss their membership.
Ayala is dead by the end of the first round (round zero being the surprise round). The Tower Girls are now under new management. First order of business is a "re-branding." They are now The Iron Crows.
Boom, 4 levels of Dungeon circumvented in 20 minutes. The jerks.
They then proceed to befriend the Mite with a cold through Hold Person, amazing Diplomacy, and use of the heal skill. Through him they have no trouble co-opting the entire Mite tribe and most of the vermin.
When they reach the Imp, they manage to subdue him completely and convince him to enter a contract with them. Honestly, he was a devil and they had him pinned. He'd rather serve them for a mortal life time (with the possibility of corrupting them) than have to spend the next hundred years reconstituting himself in Hell. Through him they gain control of some of the other devils on the level.
Now they've decided to become the most powerful gang in Magnimar, absorbing gangs when they can, destroying those that don't want to play it their way.
Luckily the Magnimar source book has given me a LOT of inspiration for opposition, especially in the form of The Everman ;)
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My players found the 2nd shard and essentially decided "nuts to dealing with these derros, we're just going to tell the mayor about it and he can organise the guards to clean out the tunnels".
They also did something somewhat unexpected with the ghoul... rather than agreeing to take the brooch to his wife... they took him to the Pathfinders and negotiated with them to kill and then raise him from the dead so that he could return to his wife and former life... I let them do it, and used the good act as a way to justify extra XP to replace what they lost from not clearing out the derros. I did tell them that they're in debt to the Pathfinders now, but that's more of a flavour thing than anything else.
We're starting Curse of the Lady's Light in a week or too... will be interesting to see how it plays out. Particularly if that trap comes up... we've already had the sorcerer die and the players manage to get him a Reincarnation at the cost of most of their spare wealth and some more favours owed. The players were amazed that he reincarnated as seemingly himself, and are putting it down to divine intervention thanks to the prayers of the paladin... that's in character of course. Out of character, they know some shenanigans are occurring, but don't know what. I rolled the reincarnate on a table I'd drawn up and rolled Kitsune. Saw it as too good an opportunity to miss, so I spoke with the sorcerer player away from the group and explained that I'd let him show up in human form with the fast shifter trait. They were all levelling at that point as well, so I let him take the feat that allows for accurate shifting as well. We haven't played since this happened, so I'm looking forward to seeing how they deal with the fact that the sorcerer is now clearly a master of disguise as well (no rogues in the group, so it may be handy).
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Isn't there usually a time-limit on how long someone can be dead and still be successfully raised?
Just checked, not with resurrection. But that is a 7th level spell, you would need a 14th level cleric to cast that! Of course, there is that 10k gp you can hang over their heads.
Sounds like you have a fun group :)
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Isn't there usually a time-limit on how long someone can be dead and still be successfully raised?
Just checked, not with resurrection. But that is a 7th level spell, you would need a 14th level cleric to cast that! Of course, there is that 10k gp you can hang over their heads.
Sounds like you have a fun group :)
Yeah, there normally is. I'm certainly planning on using that as a way to mess with them a bit later on should the opportunity present itself.
Mostly though I let them do it because it was just something so unexpected from them. Their reaction to everything else thus far had been "Kill it! Kill it with fire! Crap, fire isn't working! Kill it with hitting!". I'm glad to say they seem to be moving beyond that a bit and really getting into their characters.
Isn't there usually a time-limit on how long someone can be dead and still be successfully raised?
Just checked, not with resurrection. But that is a 7th level spell, you would need a 14th level cleric to cast that! Of course, there is that 10k gp you can hang over their heads.
Sounds like you have a fun group :)
Resurrection does have a time limit, it's 10 years per caster level, and you need a 13 level cleric (not 14) which thankfully Magnimar has (the manager of the bank).
SHARD OF GLUTTONY (MAJOR ARTIFACT)
Aura overwhelming necromancy; CL 25th
Slot none; Weight 1 lb.
DESCRIPTION
The Shard of Gluttony is made of pale inubris. As long as the Shard of Gluttony is carried, its owner can use vampiric touch as a spell-like ability once per day, gains a +2 insight bonus on saves versus necromancy spells, and increases his maximum hit points by 1 per Hit Die.
You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. You can't gain more than the subject's current hit points + the subject's Constitution score (which is enough to kill the subject). The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.
So I'm assuming that since the Shard of Gluttony is a CL 25th item, it maxes out the vampiric touch damage (10d6). The party in Shattered Star is supposed to be ~5th level when they find this item. (My party will be 4th level due to having 5 players instead of 4.) A 10d6 Vampiric touch at 4th/5th level is a lot of damage and a lot of survivability, but it's an artifact that's only useable once per day - it's supposed to be powerful. I think it's fine, but I figured I'd make a quick post and see if anyone else had any experiences with this.
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@Meche_
They don't get the shard of Gluttony until the end of the third book, when they're about level 10. You're thinking of the shard of [b]Greed, which is the one they get at the end of this particular book.
Second, this:
The caster level for the Shattered Star is unusual. In its
current shattered state, the Sihedron draws its power from
the creature that carries the shards, setting the caster level as
equal to the owner's Hit Dice. All spell effects generated by
a Shattered Star shard manifest at this caster level. For other
effects, the shards have a caster level of 25th.
Thus, it only has a CL for its Spell-like abilities equal to the player's character level (Combining all of their classes and racial HD, if any).
They don't get the shard of Gluttony until the end of the third book, when they're about level 10. You're thinking of the shard of Greed, which is the one they get at the end of this particular book.
Yeah, I realized I'd made a mistake a few days after the session and corrected it - Thanks.
Second, this:
Thus, it only has a CL for its Spell-like abilities equal to the player's character level (Combining all of their classes and racial HD, if any).The caster level for the Shattered Star is unusual. In its
current shattered state, the Sihedron draws its power from
the creature that carries the shards, setting the caster level as
equal to the owner's Hit Dice. All spell effects generated by
a Shattered Star shard manifest at this caster level. For other
effects, the shards have a caster level of 25th.
This one I did not realize - so that's good to know. I'll be sure to clarify this during the next session. Thanks a lot.
Leveling Areas?
So I don't do EXP im just trying to figure out the best places to level up the characters thanks for the help in advance
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Leveling Areas?
So I don't do EXP im just trying to figure out the best places to level up the characters thanks for the help in advance
Every module has a small column with suggestions for good places to level up. Its at the start of the actual adventure part on the right side of the page beside the summary of each part of the adventure.
I saw that more as a guide of what level they should be in what area I should be leveling but I will look at it more and make my plan
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We're two sessions in to this one and my group seems to be enjoying it so far. We had to pause in the middle of the fight with Natalya. My group is having serious trouble hitting her - they powered straight through the investigation, the fight with Fenster, and the warehouse all in one day as 1st level characters, so now they are super low on resources. One party member (human brawler) is down, the oracle is out of spells, and the alchemist is out of both bombs and other alchemical splash weapons he bought with starting money. They are having a heck of a time hitting her 21 AC.
I think I may have the goblin snake actively help them, then try to make off with the Shard. Also I'm thinking I'll move the Tower Girl post-fight ambush to later on, after they've had a chance to recover, because right now they are far too tapped.
Are you paused mid-fight with Natalya? It might be worth letting them retreat, having an encounter with the tower girls who interrogate the party. They can say Natalya is still inside. The tower girls let the party go. The party heals, levels and can return to find the Tower girls have taken over, a new candidate enthralled in the curse and Natalya their prisoner. The party is in better condition to take out the girls and rescue Natalya and have a clue to the cursed artifact.
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Are you paused mid-fight with Natalya? It might be worth letting them retreat, having an encounter with the tower girls who interrogate the party. They can say Natalya is still inside. The tower girls let the party go. The party heals, levels and can return to find the Tower girls have taken over, a new candidate enthralled in the curse and Natalya their prisoner. The party is in better condition to take out the girls and rescue Natalya and have a clue to the cursed artifact.
If they choose to retreat I do plan to have Natalya let them go, with some megalomaniacal taunting following them out.
They actually at first almost convinced her that they were there to work for her.
I'm wondering if anybody has run this module with a young group. Through my work at a mental health agency I'm going to get the opportunity to start a respite group for roleplayers. My hope is to run them through the Beginner Box and have Shiela take notice of the PCs.
I own this module and really like it. Additionally, I'm thinking that the PCs will become deputized and given the task of bringing the Tower Girls into custody. This is mostly to encourage my agency sponsored roleplaying group to spare the lives of humanoids.
Would it be way detrimental to have the characters brought in knowing where Natalya is and being sent to apprehend her? Other than the potential for bad times with the Tower Girls and the derro torture, which will be tweaked into non-specific experimentation and interrogation, am I right in viewing this as a hard PG rating?
I'm wondering if anybody has run this module with a young group. Through my work at a mental health agency I'm going to get the opportunity to start a respite group for roleplayers. My hope is to run them through the Beginner Box and have Shiela take notice of the PCs.
I own this module and really like it. Additionally, I'm thinking that the PCs will become deputized and given the task of bringing the Tower Girls into custody. This is mostly to encourage my agency sponsored roleplaying group to spare the lives of humanoids.
Would it be way detrimental to have the characters brought in knowing where Natalya is and being sent to apprehend her? Other than the potential for bad times with the Tower Girls and the derro torture, which will be tweaked into non-specific experimentation and interrogation, am I right in viewing this as a hard PG rating?
I've read a bit about what mental health agencies like yours are doing with RPGs; I wish we had one like that in my area for my Asperger's son.
To your question, I ran the module with my three kids, two of whom are teenagers and one a preteen. I agree that it would be easy enough to run at a PG level (although I suspect that wouldn't be equally true of later modules in the same adventure path). You could easily hand-wave all lethal damage against humanoids as nonlethal.
However, I should mention that I didn't find it a very satisfying adventure after my players entered the Crow, for three reasons:
1) The Tower Girls simply weren't compelling as "bad guys." My kids would rather be fighting monsters.
2) The Crow was a tedious dungeon crawl, at least the way I ran it. (Disclaimer: This was my first attempt at GMing in over 20 years, so if you're more experienced, you could probably do a lot better.)
3) I was dissatisfied as a GM that I couldn't make the Tower Girls do the logical thing (flee combat, collect reinforcements, and overwhelm the players) without creating a TPK. That was just my problem, of course; the players never knew about it.
Once my players got below the waterline, I faked a climactic battle, congratulated the players on completing the adventure, and started over with "The Dragon's Demand," which had greater variety in its encounters and more opportunities for roleplaying. (I've also run them through Crypt of the Everflame, which was their first adventure after The Beginner Box.)
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I've been fiddling with that myself...there is a dungeon map labeled "Thassalonian Dungeon" you could go with. I think I plan to advance the party to 3 after they finish dealing with the Tower Girls. I'm thinking level 4 after they finish the fiend conflict, and then 5 at the end of the adventure.
After Natalya Vancaskerkin comes to her senses (and maybe charmed) how much information would she provide for the PCs? A Map? Does she tell the PC's about the illusory walls, so they can just climb/levitate right up B23?
The answer lies with you really. Natalya would know a fair amount of that area, and could certainly provide a map (I can't recall without looking up if she knows all the illusory walls and such so I'm not answering that but the book should make it clear). Or, after so long with shard, her memory could be slightly hazy.
The tower girls, by sheer numbers and tactics and grouping up, can be quite hard to face, especially compared to the mites which happen after encountering the girls. It's also quite tricky to take them by surprise. It wouldn't be the worst idea to allow players a tactical advantage.
However, I believe one thing to keep in mind is that the tower girls have advanced upwards into the tower since Natalya left. She wouldn't know their current security set up and plans.
My characters are now 4th level and starting the Thassilonian Labs. I'm noticing that they are incredibly under-equipped. The core rulebook suggests PCs should have about 6,000 gp worth of equipment. My players are in the low 2,000 (except the player holding the first shard).
What did other DMs do? Do you artificially supplement them, or stick to the book as written?
How many Players?
Admittedly it starts a bit low but I think it equals out as time goes on. Watch for potential rewards from the side quests and pathfinder society quirks.
Shattered Star gives out a huge amount of loot over the course of the adventure. I'd hang on for now.
How many Players?
Four...fighter, cleric, alchemist, and druid.
Admittedly it starts a bit low but I think it equals out as time goes on. Watch for potential rewards from the side quests and pathfinder society quirks.
Okay, I'll go with it, but currently the party is 16K in the hole. That's the difference between having magic weapons and armor and not.
Yes, the side quests and society quirks are a pain since they are spread out all over the book and easy to miss.
Paizo adventures are rarely designed with a linear gain of gold because that doesn't make sense. But I think by the end of book 1 they'll be roughly equivalent to where they should be. Between the were-rat loot, derros, shards (a free 8,000 go ioun stone for each) and other goodies. Maybe not in a way that can be easily liquidated at half value for customized purchases, but part of the fun of campaigns is getting different stuff than you might buy normally. Basically by the end of books the parties should be caught up if not exceeding the expected gp values.
Reminder: there is a free adventure supplement in the blog post section between books 1&2. I recommend it. Also, in one of the books (2, 4?) there are Magnimar side quests which you can toss in to give further loot.
This adventure path, in my opinion, is one of the richest in ready material to add into it. Many adventure hooks (Kaer Maga has enough for a mini campaign) and side quests and with connections to the pathfinder society it's easy to pass them along as requests of contacts.
Paizo adventures are rarely designed with a linear gain of gold because that doesn't make sense. But I think by the end of book 1 they'll be roughly equivalent to where they should be. Between the were-rat loot, derros, shards (a free 8,000 go ioun stone for each) and other goodies. Maybe not in a way that can be easily liquidated at half value for customized purchases, but part of the fun of campaigns is getting different stuff than you might buy normally. Basically by the end of books the parties should be caught up if not exceeding the expected gp values.
Reminder: there is a free adventure supplement in the blog post section between books 1&2. I recommend it. Also, in one of the books (2, 4?) there are Magnimar side quests which you can toss in to give further loot.
This adventure path, in my opinion, is one of the richest in ready material to add into it. Many adventure hooks (Kaer Maga has enough for a mini campaign) and side quests and with connections to the pathfinder society it's easy to pass them along as requests of contacts.
I did a deeper dive on their characters and I stand corrected. I was only looking at their "Gear Value" and didn't include the money they are hording. That added over 8k. I also hadn't noticed the 4k of magic items on the animal companion. Then add in the shard and they are a bit over the 24k. It's just in non-traditional items, i.e. they don't have a single magic weapon or magic armor amongst them, but they're doing fine. Sorry for the drama.
However, thank you for bringing up the adventure supplement!
BTW, I'm using Syrinscape for sound effects. The rift syphon takes on all new life when you pipe in environmental sound effects from the Nine Hells. Players were not making their Will Saves.
Selling it is a really bad idea if you intend to run this entire AP.
I'd have folks be unwilling to buy it since they don't know what it is plus it's cursed which for most folks makes it worth zero.
Sheila would take it and keep it until the end of the game but in the mean time they have no way of using it to find the next shard.
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The AP kind of assumes that you need to hold onto each piece to find the next one. If they have no desire to play the AP then they have no need of the shard, but if they do want to assemble the artifact then they will need to collect all the pieces.
Remember that the shards each give a vision of where the next shard is located. If you missed giving them that, or were too cryptic about it, that could be the source of the problem.
Yeah. The end goal is reforging the sihedron. If players aren't onboard for that (was there no reading the players guide? No showing the shard to Sheila where she gets a chance to explain?) then you picked the wrong adventure.
If there is a chance to salvage the adventure but they don't want to carry it, have Sheila volunteer to hold onto it.
Ah. Well. If you're just using this as a plug-in adventure to a sandbox campaign, do whatever you like I suppose. Let them abandon it and do something more to their comfort level I suppose.
I wouldn't necessarily let them get a straight 75,000 for it. I'd suggest something like
Ioun Stone Price
+Star metal value per lb
+Magical properties based on custom magic item table
*1.5 for artifactness
Also, I could be wrong, but I believe they should've received the vision on the next shard once they inserted the ioun stone.
Lastly, a thin sheet of lead foils detect magic and most casual divination that reveals the artifact. The item only has to be on someone's person to function. Commission custom lead lined boxes to have in backpacks and no one's the wiser. Or get a handy haversack and keep it inside.
Ballgagging gremlins! Lol!
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Quick question: How do you handle Illusion magic. When Natalya cast greater image, how does the party realize it's an image and not an actual fire? how do you best describe it etc.Any help for this newb would be appreciated :)
I tend to go with illusions working unless someone interacts with it - so I said something to the tune of "Natalya concentrates briefly, and a wall of fire springs up between you and her." The group I'm running this for uses a battlemap, so I drew a red line on the map to indicate the placement. My party was too beat up to risk passing through it, so they ended up using the rafters to pass under the wall. When they got the shard and found out its powers the light bulb came on.
Major image includes basic thermal and olfactory components, so it would feel hot and smell like a fire. Only by touching it with something or passing through it would you reveal it couldn't burn anything.
A character looking at the fire with detect magic up could have chance to identify the actual effect with Knowledge(arcana), but that takes three rounds of concentration.
Rogue wins initiative, and runs across the board to tie up baddies in melee, Zen Archer Monk now shoots into melee, Cleric uses hand of the acolyte into melee, all missing their intended goblin, and hitting the rogue, who was almost killed in the exchange.
Are you house ruling this? Just checking because, while they may be inaccurate using ranged attacks into melee, there should be no risk to actually hurt an ally firing into melee unless they are apart of a grapple with the intended target.
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Rogue wins initiative, and runs across the board to tie up baddies in melee, Zen Archer Monk now shoots into melee, Cleric uses hand of the acolyte into melee, all missing their intended goblin, and hitting the rogue, who was almost killed in the exchange.Are you house ruling this? Just checking because, while they may be inaccurate using ranged attacks into melee, there should be no risk to actually hurt an ally firing into melee unless they are apart of a grapple with the intended target.
Actually even shooting into a grapple is safe in Pathfinder. That rule didn't make the transition from 3.5.
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IDK about you others but I could have theoretically completely wiped out the party with Natalia. Nobody had acrobatics so she was just bounding around nimbly on the rafters plunking arrows and had greased the ladder up to them.
In pretty typical PC style, once they realized they couldn't get to her and she could just keep shooting fish in a barrel, they got diplomatic but changing a hostile sorcerer is no bueno (he did get a 22 on his roll tho).
I had her identify herself as the queen of her dominion and the goblins that were with her were her "champions" so, if they could defeat her champions, they could have an audience with the queen.
They did (because, let's face it... goblins) in style as one repositioned a goblin off the rafters (he was half way up the ladder but blocked by the goblin who was dogslicering his face off) to the ground floor because he passed the check by enough to do that and you can't reposition into a dangerous square (like over a pit, etc.) so he could not have him off the rafters and let him drop. Who knew small creatures were easy to move.... :D. However, the reposition was right into the midst of some frustrated PC's who took it out on that poor goblin. RIP
The second did a kamakazie dive off the rafters on to another guy and smashed is face landing (very poor acrobatics to negate the 10' fall). He did hit with the attack though with thanks to the +1 for higher ground so he had a very triumphant 6 seconds before he was prone next to some longshanks with murder in their eyes.
They had successfully earned an audience with the queen by defeating her champions. She almost casually strolled across the rafters to her "throne" and used major image to mock an image of what a proper throne should be (she didn't need to use it on the party... THAT'S for sure) which got the party's interest going. I let them spy the shard on a chain around her neck and, a few knowledge checks later, knew that it was some kind of time influencing metal (which got the meta of the players going in ENTIRELY the wrong direction).
They convinced her to speak with Queen Heidmarch on a matter of import interest to both their nations and their diplomacy check was still on point and, combined with a reduced DC (since she was interested in expanding her power base and speaking with another queen), Queen Vankaskerin consented to have them escort her.
At the meeting with "Queen" Heidmarch, Sheila passes a secret message via Bluff which the PC's successfully interpret via Sense Motive. The message is, "when I give the signal, get her!" Signal given, the PC's pounce and subdue her Natalia. They relieve her of the shard and place it on the table. A few cinematic embellishments later (akin to placing the one ring on the pillar in LotR with a vision of time given to the one who took it off her so I could download some harmless back story), they have the shard.
I totally passed on the Tower Girl Ambush after the goblins because they REALLY had to slog through that house. The constant acrobatics, falling, and poo flinging really drained them and the PCs were pretty wiped of resources and HP after slogging through the goblins to "Queen" Vankaskerin.
One in the party did get filth fever (took a shot in the mouth from some flung poo... i.e. a critical for TWO WHOLE POINTS OF DAMAGE but a failed fort save). The feebe investigator was pretty scared when, over the course of two days he lost 5 DEX and 5 CON... the cleric was helping and, on that second save, they grudgingly spent the 50 GP to buy an antiplague (only lasts an hour but I gave it to them for that save) and he sweat out the fever. Disease in a non combat, all skill investigator at second level suuuuuuucks.
Now, while the party is waiting for that PC to convalesce (depending on what he does, it'll either take 5 days, 3 days, or two days depending on rest and LTC checks from the cleric), I'll download some Magnimar to them and give them some environmental hints about ways to approach the Crow (maybe have a morning fog on the first day of convalescence to give them the idea that there might be a way to approach aside from straight up rowing out there and getting ganked). I'll do this because they have a general lack of stealth and the Tower Girls are definitely going to see them coming.
I think I'll either have Terisha try to tail the PC's during that time and take out Natalia (maybe after a random Magnamarian encounter then BANG) or have her retreat to the Crow and supplement the forces there.
Next session today... TBC...
How did this turn out, wordelo?