Advice on building a cleric


Advice


I'm new to the pathfinder system, i played 3.5 several years ago, but i had a limited experience still. I'm looking for help and suggestion to build my first character in pathfinder, DM is a bit busy and i just want to be sure I'm building a viable cleric. I wanted a cleric with a small swashbuckler taste without full dedication. Here's an overview of things to consider.

Cleric of Bahamut 7th level (no multi-class if possible)

Current Party: Fighter two-handed, rogue archer

Domain id like: Luck and Protection (In the DM world, Bahamut is the major divinity and we are using is old 3.5 portfolio)

Weapon: any mace (light or heavy)(DM choosed this weapon as favored weapon for Bahamut in his world)

Resources: the core book and the advance player guide only.

Stats was rolled with DM, the array i got: 18 / 16 / 15 / 14 / 11 / 10

Race: any core, my idea was human.

My main concern is the stats allocation, feat selection, skill points distributions (important skills).

I'm looking for advice and suggestions. I'm not looking to be a monster in combat, more as a support buffing and healing, not a damage-dealer, but if i can bring few tactical move it would be awesome. Like being able to slip in-out to give some buff/flank, and maybe adding disarm/trip move if there's an efficient way to do it. Keeping a good charisma and/or wisdom score for RP-purpose would be appreciated.

Any comments/thoughts/ideas/suggestions is gladly welcomed and most appreciated.

Thank you

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Drop that 16 into your CHA, the 18 into STR, the 14 into INT if you're looking to qualify for tactical feats since you'll need it for Combat Expertise, and the 15 into CON. I'd probably go 11 Dex and 10 INT, but your choice depending on whether you want to snag an extra skill point at some point or a boost to your Reflex save and AC. You may not be too enamored of being a damage dealer, but you'll be wasting that 18 most other places. Improved Disarm would give you that option, and you could take it with Combat Expertise at 1st level if you go human. Think about putting your bonus +2 into INT if you really want to boost your skills for RP purposes, or drop it into WIS for a small Will boost and a point in those related skills. Dex wouldn't hurt either if you're planning on having a mount. Nothing worse than rolling a 1 and failing that DC 5 ride check :P Bluff isn't going to be a class skill for you, so not sure if Imp. Feint is going to be worth burning your resources on, maybe look at tripping if you really want to have a few combat maneuvers up your sleeve along the Combat Expertise line.


There's not a lot of advise to give, your stats speak for themselves.

The highest score has to be wisdom, of course.

To slip in and out: the feats dodge and mobility and a shield (and the spell shield of faith).

You could put 16 in strength to be an able combatant for the first levels. The higher you get, the less important melee combat will be for you (it's not like in 3.5 anymore, where the cleric could overwhelm the fighter in this regard (and in all others, too).

14 Con seems to be standard (if doing damage is not important take 16 Con to stay alive)

15 in Charisma, enough for an able channeler (positive energy).

Clerics are good buffers: bless, prayer, bull's strength (till belts are available) and so forth.

It will be hard to pull combat maneuvers efficiently. I don't recommend it.

You will be feat and skill starved. But that's the fate of the cleric, usually.

The everyday selection of spells is crucial, but you will learn through experience, what fits you best.

Skills: 3 or 4 ranks each level. Perception is the ultimate skill in the game, but it could be boaring if everyone has it maxed out. "Knowledge, religion" is important for you, a little bit of spellcraft (the more, the better). Probably Sense Motive, in your case some ranks in "Knowledge, arcana" make sense.


You're getting some conflicting advice. Whatever you decide, make sure that your Wis is at least 15, so that it can be at least 19 by the time that you get 9th-level spells. Also, I recommend Selective Channeling to be able to heal your friends and not your enemies, without triggering attacks of opportunity. I also agree with Turgan's advice against combat maneuvers; they just require too many feats that you could use better elsewhere, while getting more difficult over time. And don't forget Diplomacy: 99.99999% of the world is NPCs, so being able to influence them is aces.


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As a Cleric, you'll be getting roughly half of the feats a Fighter gets.

A Fighter gets a feat at every level. Most other Classes (unless specified in their abilities table with Bonus Feats), only get a Feat at every other level.

So, a Fighter would get one at level 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc up to 20, where as a Cleric would get one at level 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17 and 19.

If you play as a Human, you get an extra feat and as most campaigns cap out at level 17, you'd get 10 Feats instead of 9, if you play as a Human over any other race. Humans also get an extra skill rank at each level.

As for your stats, I personally would assign each score in the following order:

Str: 15 (can increase at level 8 by 1)
Dex: 14
Con: 11 (can increase at level 4 by 1)
Wis: 18 (can increase at level 12 and 16 by 1 each time)
Int: 10
Cha: 16

Now, as Fredrik has said above, Wisdom should be your main focus, but a 16 is a decent score to have at level 1, so unless you really want to go all out on casting as many spells as possible, I'd save your highest points for Strength (if you want to be a heavy hitter), otherwise go for Wisdom (like I have) as this is responsible for your Spell DC. Note that Charisma should also be high as it determines how many channels a day you can have, which from memory, I think is 3 + your Charisma Modifier.

For offensive spells that enemies have the chance to save against, boosting your Wisdom up is essential as it increases the DC of your spells, which in turn, makes it harder for the enemies to save against.

So, if you want to throw out a mind and compulsion enchantment spell such as Command, with a 16 Wisdom and Spell Focus in the school you wish to cast magic from (in this case Enchantments), the DC to save against your spell would be 10 + 3 (Wisdom modifier) + 1 (Spell level) + 1 (Spell Focus) = 15, which is pretty good for level 1. If you want to focus in this over Strength, throw that 18 straight into your Wisdom for a DC of 16 to beat at level 1 with the above Spell Focus feat.

Life is a fairly essential thing to have, as when you lose all HP you can go into the minus life up to your Con score, however Humans have a racial trait called Heart of the Wilderness that makes it harder to die, as it adds half of your character level to your Con score when determining how low your hit points have to drop in order to kill you. Check it out, it's in the APG. :)

Also, Humans gain +2 to any Ability Score you like, so that 15 Strength up there could become a 17 for +3 Strength, or that Charisma Score could go from 16 to and 18 (although I'd put it in either Con or Wisdom if you're not going for Strength as boosting Spell DC's is always a good idea and extra life is beneficial in any circumstance). If you put the +2 in Wisdom, you could have 20 at level 1, with a Spell DC of 17 for level 1 spells. :)

As for traits, if you are planning to cast an offensive spell in particular for a large portion of the game, look into the trait called Magical Lineage. When determining the spell level for a modified spell when using metamagic feats such as Heighten (increases the spell DC), it counts that spell as being one level lower than it actually is so costs nothing to add metamagic feats to, as long as they only raise your spell slot by 1.

Feats to take at level 1 would be Selective Channeling and Extra Channel if you plan to Channel a lot of energy to heal your party members, or Spell Focus if your focus is casting powerful spells. :)

Selective Channeling is awesome as it allows you to exclude a number of enemies/characters up to your Wisdom modifier (+4 with the stats above) when healing allies, so you don't end up healing the enemies and bosses of the campaign, but you must always remember to state you're doing that as GM's can get picky and say they won't allow it if you announce it after you channel.

Clerics are fun to play as and can prove more efficient on the battlefield than almost any other Class, sheerly for the fact they can heal, fight and defend themselves.

Hopefully this has helped you in some way! :)


Are there going to be any other players? If so, are you going to be the primary caster? I see a few options from your description.

Option 1) str 18+2, dex 11, con 15, int 10, wis 16, cha 14
Feats: selective channeling, imp. initiative
skills: diplomacy, knowledge: religion, spellcraft or heal

This is the option of supporting the party by smashing your opponent's heads in. with your heavy mace, your heavy shield, and the heaviest armor you can wear, you head to the front lines, firing off buffs beforehand if possible.

Option 2) str 14, dex 10, con 11, int 16, wis 18+2, cha 15
feats: selective channeling, scribe scroll
skills: as above plus a couple of knowledges, maybe perception

This is the option for more spellcasting, especially if you are the only spellcaster. While you still can wield your mace, your smashing is only so-so. You are going to be doing more casting, although you will still want the heavy shield and armor.


Bandavaar the Brave wrote:
Selective Channeling is awesome as it allows you to exclude a number of enemies/characters up to your Wisdom modifier (+4 with the stats above)...

Actually, it's tied to your Charisma modifier, not Wisdom.

While a cleric's casting is tied to Wisdom, it doesn't have to be your highest stat. If you plan to cast a lot of offensive spells, then throw that 18 into Wisdom, because you'll want the DC of your spells to be as high as possible. If you're going to be sticking to buff spells and the like, though, the extra Wisdom will give you more bonus spells per day, but you might find you'll get more benefit out of that 18 in another score. Just remember that you'll need to have a Wisdom of at least 10+spell level to cast a spell, though you can increase it with stat boosting items if you need to.


It has been very helpful, thank you.


Fionnabhair wrote:
Actually, it's tied to your Charisma modifier, not Wisdom.

My bad.

I'm playing a Cleric at the mo who has exactly the same Charisma bonus as he does Wisdom.

Still, everything else I've said is 100% accurate, so I'm glad it's helped you in some way Jon. :)

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Apparently I thought I was suggesting advice for a Paladin in my post? Not sure why.....
I'm going to chalk that up to lack of sleep and strongly encourage you to ignore everything I said (if you haven't already).


The true questions should be - What type of Cleric do you want to be?

In melee helping to dish out the damage?

A party Buffer?

Mess with the bad guys with your divine spells?

Those 3 questions will help to determine where you want to put your stats.

You can still mix it up in melee and support the fighter with flanking without a high STR. As a cleric can get a good AC by going with heavy armor or a light armor/dex build (or medium armor that mithral).

I am a big fan of having a good DEX. As this boosts 3 important areas -
*helps with Initiative (great for buffing/debuffing before everything gets spread out)

*Reflex saves (something the cleric will lack

*DEX based skills (fair number of them and as a cleric you'll be lacking in skill points, you'll be in armor and most of that armor has a penalty.)

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