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Will you stop playing D&D if Hasbro shelved it?
Would you introduce your children and grandchildren (geese, I'm almost 40!) to D&D after it has been shelved through one of the Clones or Pathfinder?
I know I would. Hasbro shelving D&D isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. It would mean the genie is really out of the bottle! People will continue to play. You can't stop people playing D&D or any other roleplaying game. It's just pure nonsense.
D&D 5th should succeed. However, if it doesn't, the D&D brand could be shelved. But it's not necessarily a bad thing for all of gaming. In the past 4 years, Wizards of the Coast has moved from prominence in the gaming world, and people showed them that they will play what they liked.
I have a copy of the Wilderlands of High Fantasy (new version for 3.5) and a host of other gaming settings. I'm even developing my own setting. Would Hasbro shelving D&D really stop me from playing? Really?
Question is, do you really need Hasbro to keep D&D going?
I really don't care whether or not the original brand disappears. I think that at this point D&D has become somewhat generisized already. If Hasbro locks up the original brand, then it just allows PF to become the de-facto D&D, which is fine by me.
The only loss that I would care about is the loss of official support for the old-school settings. That is what fan conversions are for though.
Since I play Pathfinder rather than D&D, it wouldn't affect my choice of game. It might affect how easily I can get new products for said game, though. D&D is just about the only reason that most book stores even have a section that sells RPGs. Because of D&D's presence on the shelves, Pathfinder is able to have a solid space, too. If D&D went away, I think it would hurt the visibility of the RPG industry, which would in turn hurt sales.
Since I play Pathfinder rather than D&D, it wouldn't affect my choice of game. It might affect how easily I can get new products for said game, though. D&D is just about the only reason that most book stores even have a section that sells RPGs. Because of D&D's presence on the shelves, Pathfinder is able to have a solid space, too. If D&D went away, I think it would hurt the visibility of the RPG industry, which would in turn hurt sales.
I agree with this. It doesn't have any real impact on me (I'll just buy something else). It would likely have an impact on the industry though. What I've come to believe over the last few years is that two 800 pound gorillas is better than one.
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Paizo has always made its running as the underdog, and has positioned itself as such even when it is actually a fairly big player these days (in an admittedly small industry). WotC's problems came, in my view, from a lack of meaningful competition in the early 2000s. I don't really think that Paizo would really be where they are now without WotC pushing them. And, frankly, given some of the dodgy-looking stuff coming out now (an MMORPG, for crying out loud, albeit with some other mugs doing the leg-work) I wonder if Paizo is beginning to get the over-reach/complacency bug.
WoTC lost control over D&D when released the OGC.
Companies are free to use that material as the heart of unlimited new game systems.
Yes, but only WotC has the Dungeons & Dragons license. No other RPG out there has that sort of name recognition, and it is arguably more valuable than the rules, adventures, and whatnot that makes up the rest of D&D.
I don't need Hasbro to keep D&D going. I can still play out of print editions of D&D, Star Wars, and I can also keep playing Pathfinder. The personal impact on me will be relatively low.
That doesn't mean I don't think the hobby in general won't be affected. I believe it will be and the effect won't be positive. I think the world outside the hobby tends to view RPGs as "that D&D stuff". If D&D dominates public perceptions of the RPG hobby and it can't really be found as an active product, you'll see a lot of potential recruits needlessly confused, confounded, and otherwise hampered in taking up the hobby. I'd be thrilled to see that prediction proved wrong, but my fear is it won't be.
I don't know I might want to give it one last try once it goes out of print before finding players for it becomes even harder very long in the future.
I know I would. Hasbro shelving D&D isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing.
Actually, it would be a terrible thing. That would mark the start of a massive decline in hobby participation. Active support of a hobby may not be a big draw for you, but it's a tremendous draw for a lot of people.
The new version is always the best version ever. The true realization of the ideal.
Until the next one comes along.
Isn't that exactly how it should be? Successively improved iterations of the game, better than those that came before and not as good as those that will come after? That's what I hope for out of the hobby, personally. I look forward to a world that is cooler to live in five years from now than it is today.
Mind you, the "true realization of the ideal" bit is hyperbole. I don't think anyone really believes that any iteration of D&D is the best that it can possibly be and that nothing could improve it. Actually, I have heard a couple of people saying things similar to that about some very old-school editions, but I think that even they understood that was little more than rhetoric.
I think it would be bad in Hasbro shelved D&D. However, I don't know that I would find it surprising at this point.
Paizo has always made its running as the underdog, and has positioned itself as such even when it is actually a fairly big player these days (in an admittedly small industry). WotC's problems came, in my view, from a lack of meaningful competition in the early 2000s. I don't really think that Paizo would really be where they are now without WotC pushing them. And, frankly, given some of the dodgy-looking stuff coming out now (an MMORPG, for crying out loud, albeit with some other mugs doing the leg-work) I wonder if Paizo is beginning to get the over-reach/complacency bug.
I have serious doubts about the wisdom of Paizo trying to do an MMO...but I've been wrong before. In any event, I'm glad they had the sense to split it off into a separate legal entity.
...I wonder if Paizo is beginning to get the over-reach/complacency bug.
Do you see these as the same? Because to me they seem almost polar opposites.
.I might accuse Paizo of potentially over-reaching (though it seems to me from a distance that they mitigate those risks pretty effectively) but I wouldnt accuse them of complacency. They continually tinker with their product lines. They respond to critique from fans. Their quality has held up or even improved, despite their increasing output. When they do launch something new (like the miniatures collaboration with WizKids) it seems they take the time to do it well.
In contrast, I think someone like Fantasy Flight Games might be characterised as complacent. The Dark Heresy franchise seems to be plodding along with a tried-and-true format - when they do branch out into something new (like Black Crusade) it's the same old format as all the other sub-franchises.
My FLGS devotes more space to Pathfinder than D&D. The only place I've found where D&D takes up more shelf space than Pathfinder is Barnes & Noble. I think the Pathfinder brand is getting to the point where it can stand on its own, at least out here.
My FLGS devotes more space to Pathfinder than D&D. The only place I've found where D&D takes up more shelf space than Pathfinder is Barnes & Noble. I think the Pathfinder brand is getting to the point where it can stand on its own, at least out here.
It's the presence in mainstream distribution that concerns me. I dont think it would make any significant difference to the industry in the short-term if every FLGS removed all their D&D books and replaced them with other games. But the people in an FLGS are already looking for (or at least interested in) RPGs.
.What concerns me is the loss of sales to parents who see a D&D set when out and about, remember playing it as kids and pick up a copy on a whim. A big brand isnt as necessary to people who are already playing, but it's a definite plus for the industry to have D&D movies, comics, cartoons and books out there in the mainstream (and consequently a loss if those things were to disappear without being replaced).
I'd love it if Paizo were in a position to distribute through Target, Toys R Us or similar. Then I'd be less concerned at a potential disappearance of the D&D brand.
My FLGS devotes more space to Pathfinder than D&D. The only place I've found where D&D takes up more shelf space than Pathfinder is Barnes & Noble. I think the Pathfinder brand is getting to the point where it can stand on its own, at least out here.
Outside of the USA it could be a problem. In some places you can find WoD and PF core if you are lucky, but not much beyond D&D.
Ah, the "Condition of WotC and D&D is critical for our hobby, so let's all rally behind the Former Illustrious Industry Leader!" fallacy.
Who said that?
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Ah, the "Condition of WotC and D&D is critical for our hobby, so let's all rally behind the Former Illustrious Industry Leader!" fallacy.Who said that?
You can see a part of that in Scott's post above (Hasbro shelving D&D = terrible thing, decline in hobby). I see it every day on some D&D forum - folks saying that the future of our hobby depends on the success of 5e (or on survival of 4e).
US car market didn't vanish when Detroit died. Global phone market isn't dying just because Nokia is about to take a dive. Kodak used to be something, now it's not, but cameras are alive and well. RPG won't die when the lords of the boards @ Hasbro decide to freeze D&D for 20 years.
You can see a part of that in Scott's post above (Hasbro shelving D&D = terrible thing, decline in hobby). I see it every day on some D&D forum - folks saying that the future of our hobby depends on the success of 5e (or on survival of 4e).
US car market didn't vanish when Detroit died. Global phone market isn't dying just because Nokia is about to take a dive. Kodak used to be something, now it's not, but cameras are alive and well. RPG won't die when the lords of the boards @ Hasbro decide to freeze D&D for 20 years.
No, but it's still a bad thing (in my view anyhow). The more accessible RPGs are the better things are for all RPG companies.
.For my part it's not a reason to rally behind WoTC, but it is a reason to hope that someone takes their place in the mainstream if they choose to vacate it.
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You can see a part of that in Scott's post above (Hasbro shelving D&D = terrible thing, decline in hobby). I see it every day on some D&D forum - folks saying that the future of our hobby depends on the success of 5e (or on survival of 4e).
US car market didn't vanish when Detroit died. Global phone market isn't dying just because Nokia is about to take a dive. Kodak used to be something, now it's not, but cameras are alive and well. RPG won't die when the lords of the boards @ Hasbro decide to freeze D&D for 20 years.
No, but it's still a bad thing (in my view anyhow). The more accessible RPGs are the better things are for all RPG companies.
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For my part it's not a reason to rally behind WoTC, but it is a reason to hope that someone takes their place in the mainstream if they choose to vacate it.
RPGs aren't mainstream. Video games are. Spending an evening on your X-box is totally a normal thing to do even if you're adult nowadays, spending an evening rolling dice and shuffling some weird sheets is a non-adult dorkism. I'm getting the funny looks when I tell people "I've been playing RPGs yesterday", I'm getting a totally "yeah cool" reaction when I tell them I was playing Mass Effect all night.
D&D brand isn't important any more. If your hobby is little known, the brand leader isn't as relevant. It's even more visible over here, because D&D never was the leading RPG in Europe.
RPGs aren't mainstream. Video games are. Spending an evening on your X-box is totally a normal thing to do even if you're adult nowadays, spending an evening rolling dice and shuffling some weird sheets is a non-adult dorkism. I'm getting the funny looks when I tell people "I've been playing RPGs yesterday", I'm getting a totally "yeah cool" reaction when I tell them I was playing Mass Effect all night.
I agree. That's why it's great that D&D has a presence in the mainstream outlets. If that disappears (without being replaced by a new industry leader) then it's a little less visible to the mainstream which means a little less pull on non-RPGers and a reduced number of new gamers each year.
.Maybe it's cultural, but people here know what I mean when I say I've been playing D&D (sure it's dorky, but they still know what I mean). They dont know what I mean by a roleplaying game.
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Oh, that's a common occurrence of generic trademark. Zipper, kleenex, aspirin, band-aid - all were originally specific brands. The question is - does the original producer of Zipper need to continue making Zippers to keep zippers alive? Does Hasbro need to pump out D&D for people to recognize what "dungeons & dragons" is?
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an MMORPG, for crying out loud, albeit with some other mugs doing the leg-work
Do note that the fact that Paizo is *not* the company making the product is actualy a big deal. So far, Paizo's policy was always, "If another company wants to work with our stuff, let's let them! it will only work in evreybody's favour eventualy". that is the reason pathfinder has it's own OGL and dozens of third party publishers.
So Paizo decided to treat Goblinsworks similarily. Goblinsworks wanted to do a PF MMO, and, after considering the risks envolved and deciding that they will give Goblinswork a go at it, they signed the contract. This is simply an extention to the idea that Paizo has about being open with their product and wanting as many other people as possible to give their best shot of creating good PF products.
Bottom line is, Paizo is working with Goblinsworks, as collegeus, not as employers. There's a huge diffrence.
I remember before 3.5 when only the "Dorkiest of dorks" played D&D all the "cool kids" played Vampire. At that time if D&D had gone t@&@ up people would have been sad and a little nostalgic - but it would have been greeted as a good thing allowing other systems to fill the vacuum that the bloated dinosaur that was AD&D was hogging.
I would be a little sad if D&D died now but there are a host of good game companies (with better games FFG, and so on) out there ready to fill any void.
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Oh, that's a common occurrence of generic trademark. Zipper, kleenex, aspirin, band-aid - all were originally specific brands. The question is - does the original producer of Zipper need to continue making Zippers to keep zippers alive? Does Hasbro need to pump out D&D for people to recognize what "dungeons & dragons" is?
Nah - I'm not worried about that. (Though I happen to think referring to PF as 'real D&D' is disrespectful of what Paizo have achieved). The D&D we played from 1987 through to 2008ish was produced by Iron Crown Enterprises and had "Rolemaster" written on it.
I'm worried that D&D's presence in the popular culture (feeble as it may be) will disappear completely if it isnt replaced by something else. Maybe nobody knows what it is in Poland, but here people do actually know what D&D is and it is somewhat in people's sight (largely through the novels). We gamers can all merrily keep playing Pathfinder or whatever and doing what we've always done but there wont be uncles buying Beginner Boxes on a whim if they never see them or think about it. Firms spend money on marketing and brand-name awareness for a reason - it's because it works.
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The question is - does the original producer of Zipper need to continue making Zippers to keep zippers alive? Does Hasbro need to pump out D&D for people to recognize what "dungeons & dragons" is?
Problem is, a "true" zipper and an "Automatic, Continuous Clothing Closure" look and function the same way...
A generic fantasy based table-top RPG will more than likely not look (and probably won't function) like D&D...
A person that used to play D&D 30 years ago, may or may not recognize the more modern game mechanics of D&D, but he sure as heck will recognize the brand name on the cover! Conversely, he will probably just pass over another fantasy based table-top RPG if there was no D&D branded book there to grab his attention first...
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I think that the focus should be made on promoting RPGs as a hobby. Just like producers band together to promote a certain product or service ("Drink milk", "Eat salmon"), RPG companies could take steps *together* to improve hobby awareness.
Making sure D&D is visible might change something in the US, but it won't do a thing over here - heck, Warhammer Fantasy is far more recognized as "The RPG" in Poland.
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The question is - does the original producer of Zipper need to continue making Zippers to keep zippers alive? Does Hasbro need to pump out D&D for people to recognize what "dungeons & dragons" is?Problem is, a "true" zipper and an "Automatic, Continuous Clothing Closure" look and function the same way...
A generic fantasy based table-top RPG will more than likely not look (and probably won't function) like D&D...
A person that used to play D&D 30 years ago, may or may not recognize the more modern game mechanics of D&D, but he sure as heck will recognize the brand name on the cover! Conversely, he will probably just pass over another fantasy based table-top RPG if there was no D&D branded book there to grab his attention first...
A fair point, but I doubt that the future of healthly and expanding RPG hobby lies in ensuring that people who played RPG 30 years ago pick up D&D again. The purchasing and trendsetting power lies with the generation that never had contact with RPGs before. Red boxes with Larry Elmore art don't help here, something needs to be done to make RPGs "hip".
What I could see happening is an attempt to approach the video gamer demographic. WotC tried that with 4E and never got anywhere, now Paizo tries a different take with PFO.
I think that the focus should be made on promoting RPGs as a hobby. Just like producers band together to promote a certain product or service ("Drink milk", "Eat salmon"), RPG companies could take steps *together* to improve hobby awareness.
That would be a good thing too. Maybe the various Conventions could develop some strategies to market themselves to non-gamers. That seems the kind of event that might get some traction.
Making sure D&D is visible might change something in the US, but it won't do a thing over here - heck, Warhammer Fantasy is far more recognized as "The RPG" in Poland.
I'm predominantly speaking about Australia, FWIW. I'm surprised ato hear WHFRP is so prominent - I rarely see it here.
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*warning, tangent ahead*
WFRP was the first foreign RPG translated into Polish (1992 or so). Several factors helped it gain the market leader position - Bill King's Gotrek stories were very popular since mid 80's, the "gritty and grim" outlook of Warhammer reality quite well meshed with what you could see around in my country at the time, and Old World is pretty much a reflection of medieval Europe (Empire = Germany, Kislev = Russia+Poland, Brettonia=France) which helped people identify the tropes.
D&D arrived a few years later, and it quickly got labelled as "kid's cartoon fantasy game" as opposed to "realistic" style of WFRP and other RPGs that hit it high in Poland (Cyberpunk 2020 and Vampire).
As far as I know, every European country has a different RPG landscape. In Germany it's neither D&D or WFRP - they have an ingenious game called "Das Schwarze Auge" which reigns the market supreme over there.
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an MMORPG, for crying out loud, albeit with some other mugs doing the leg-workDo note that the fact that Paizo is *not* the company making the product is actualy a big deal. So far, Paizo's policy was always, "If another company wants to work with our stuff, let's let them! it will only work in evreybody's favour eventualy". that is the reason pathfinder has it's own OGL and dozens of third party publishers.
So Paizo decided to treat Goblinsworks similarily. Goblinsworks wanted to do a PF MMO, and, after considering the risks envolved and deciding that they will give Goblinswork a go at it, they signed the contract. This is simply an extention to the idea that Paizo has about being open with their product and wanting as many other people as possible to give their best shot of creating good PF products.
Bottom line is, Paizo is working with Goblinsworks, as collegeus, not as employers. There's a huge diffrence.
Yes, it is a big deal and I think it's a very significant mitigating factor. I think this MMO is doomed to fail (my opinion, but there it is) and Paizo were savvy enough not to actually put too much into it themselves. Although this isn't remotely like the OGL - I imagine it's a bog-standard licensing deal.
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...I wonder if Paizo is beginning to get the over-reach/complacency bug.Do you see these as the same? Because to me they seem almost polar opposites.
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I might accuse Paizo of potentially over-reaching (though it seems to me from a distance that they mitigate those risks pretty effectively) but I wouldnt accuse them of complacency. They continually tinker with their product lines. They respond to critique from fans. Their quality has held up or even improved, despite their increasing output. When they do launch something new (like the miniatures collaboration with WizKids) it seems they take the time to do it well.In contrast, I think someone like Fantasy Flight Games might be characterised as complacent. The Dark Heresy franchise seems to be plodding along with a tried-and-true format - when they do branch out into something new (like Black Crusade) it's the same old format as all the other sub-franchises.
You can complacently do nothing much - although that may simply be a sign of not having much development budget. Or you can "complacently" not consider risks properly, do too much, and fall on your face. No one would consider that TSR was inactive given the amount of stuff it churned out towards the end but it was badly managed and arguably "complacent". The Paizo product has, for me, waned in interest and the MMORPG just struck me as a distraction from their core business of producing good RPG products.
Heh, speaking of Czechs to complete local little map, here's still the best known an old and not very well done D&D clone Draci Doupe, which is some 20 years old. Since then there were some attempts to translate foreign systems or make something, but it all usually leads to a blind end due to lack of funding. With overal population of 10 mil. we're crappy market, but there are at least some attempts to liven-up the industry lately with some reworked systems like Pribehy Imperia (Reworked fate - a well marketed thing, but I think it lacks audience due to setting being Victorian England) and quite porly marketed Kouzlem a mecem (reworked Dungeon Squad). There's also a Fan made translation of 4E and old Shadowrun AFAIK, but RPGs are fairly obscure thing here outside from the first named system. Mostly the Magic players ate least know what's it about, but don't want to take part in that and that would be all.
You can complacently do nothing much - although that may simply be a sign of not having much development budget. Or you can "complacently" not consider risks properly, do too much, and fall on your face. No one would consider that TSR was inactive given the amount of stuff it churned out towards the end but it was badly managed and arguably "complacent". The Paizo product has, for me, waned in interest and the MMORPG just struck me as a distraction from their core business of producing good RPG products....I wonder if Paizo is beginning to get the over-reach/complacency bug.Do you see these as the same? Because to me they seem almost polar opposites.
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I might accuse Paizo of potentially over-reaching (though it seems to me from a distance that they mitigate those risks pretty effectively) but I wouldnt accuse them of complacency. They continually tinker with their product lines. They respond to critique from fans. Their quality has held up or even improved, despite their increasing output. When they do launch something new (like the miniatures collaboration with WizKids) it seems they take the time to do it well.In contrast, I think someone like Fantasy Flight Games might be characterised as complacent. The Dark Heresy franchise seems to be plodding along with a tried-and-true format - when they do branch out into something new (like Black Crusade) it's the same old format as all the other sub-franchises.
Fair enough, I don't agree but that makes sense.
I can appreciate someone developing "golarion fatigue" but I don't think that's a function of declining quality (though that's clearly no more than opinion). Personally, i think they've done a stellar job of maintaining quality.
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Well, I gave up with Jade Regent. Normally I really enjoyed reading the modules but I just had real problems motivating myself to care with this one. That said, some bits of it were great (the dungeon by Pett, for one - well, maybe that was the only one) but it just lost me. And I've been finding the stuff coming out lately slightly desparate - sort-of "what monster book can we do now that we haven't done before" syndrome. It's not all bad - I enjoyed James Sutter's solar system book - but it feels to me like a "fluff bloat" for Golarion/PF. I'm sure not everyone, or even more than a minority, feels that way.
On the OP thing... I think it would make a difference in the big English-speaking markets. It's been said before, but RPG and D&D are largely synonymous. I've just started playing 4e with a bunch of newbies and it happened because I mentioned I play it and a guy exclaimed (slightly odd, but it does happen) "I've always wanted to play D&D!" He's never really wanted to play Warhammer, or ever heard of Pathfinder. In terms of PF, it is positioned as the anti-D&D. Without the ying to its yang, it might struggle to actually define itself at all in a marketing sense - if you don't know about D&D and RPGs already quite well, you probably will never have heard of PF.
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*warning, tangent ahead*
WFRP was the first foreign RPG translated into Polish (1992 or so). Several factors helped it gain the market leader position - Bill King's Gotrek stories were very popular since mid 80's, the "gritty and grim" outlook of Warhammer reality quite well meshed with what you could see around in my country at the time, and Old World is pretty much a reflection of medieval Europe (Empire = Germany, Kislev = Russia+Poland, Brettonia=France) which helped people identify the tropes.
Middle to late 1994 IIRC. Publisher (MAG) promised to publish GURPS 3rd edition but instead Warhammer was released. I am still angry on them for that.
Cyberpunk 2020 was published sometime later in 1995 (wiki tells 1994 under Polish entry for Cyberpunk but 1995 under the Polish publisher's entry - and on their own page they state that they were established in 95 and published Cyberpunk the same year).
1995 also seen publication of Polish translation of Call Of Cthulhu and (I think it was 95) native Polish Aphalon.
Either in 1994 or in 1995 there was published Zły Cień: Kruki Urojenia (Evil Shadow: The Ravens Of Delusion - is it some weird psychodelic indie judging from the name? Nope, it is about Slavic mythology... No one really knows how the author came to the Delusions part but there are certain suspicions ;) ) which held the dubious honor of being (probably) the first Polish rpg published - dubious because of overall poor quality.
Somewhere in 1995 or 96 MAG gave us Oko Yrhedesa (Eye Of Yrhedes - name of the BBEG, er BBEArtifact of the core adventure) in a book form - a simple but very good rpg written by the Witcher's creator Andrzej Sapkowski. It originally composed of dozen pages long article in the rpg magazine MiM in 94 and excelled at elegant simplicity. Ok, I admit personal bias here - it was the first non-homebrew system I GMed and played. Also, I used it as a basis for homebrew Alien game into which I introduced Predators long before I heard about comic crossover.
In 1996 saw publication of MERP, Vampire, Werewolf, native Polish Dzikie Pola and finally AD&D - but it was mostly a side note of the history of RPG for Polish players, not "The RPG". Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 and Torment probably done more to promote the brand than the pen'n'paper game until the introduction of 3rd edition.
Mage was released in 1997 as was book-form Kryształy Czasu (Crystals Of Time) - but the game was available piece-by-piece as chapters publicated in MiM magazine since its inception in 1993 with promises of release as a softback/hardback repeated every year. Amongst gamers the incoming book came to be running joke like Duke Nukem Forever years later amongst computer gamers.
Earthdawn became quite popular for a time after its release in '98.
Some of the dates might be a bit off as I base them from memory and release ads from MiM which were notoriously inaccurate - half year delay was norm for MAG and year or one-and-half delay not uncommon.
I think that I missed a few less popular games, like Lord Of The Rings RPG published just before or at the same time as MERP as introduction for beginner players.
EDIT: I just found a page with list of publication dates that shows PHB for AD&D 2nd edition was actually published in 1995. DMG and MM was released in 96. Mechawarrior was published in 95. Mage The Ascension was in 99 not 97 - my bad as I started with English version a friend bought after the success of Vampire and Werewolf.
EDIT 2: RPG books list on Polter
All in all, many Polish gamers (and I think that would apply to many other Europeans too) would react with D&D hibernation or even demise with shrug or a bit of sadness. For us AD&D was already thing of the past when rpg really spread here. Of course, the next generation, brought up during D&D revival sparked by the introduction of 3rd edition might feel differently.
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Will you stop playing D&D if Hasbro shelved it?
I won't play it any less than I currently play it. Which is to say, I mostly play games that were inspired by D&D these days (Pathfinder and various retroclones), instead of any game that actually carries the D&D brand name.
Hasbro shelving D&D isn't a bad thing.
I disagree. Whatever else it has been through the years, D&D has also been the #1 biggest "gateway drug" for the roleplaying hobby. I know very few roleplayers who didn't have as their first games one edition of D&D or another.
Wouldn't effect me in the slightest. And I'm not convinced that it would effect RPGs negatively in the long term either. People act like RPGs aren't the super niche hobby that it is. Most people may have heard of D&D but they have no idea what a fricking RPG is out side of it in video games.
We are a small group and getting smaller and smaller. The only real salvation for the hobby are a diveristy of games and the ability to play those games over some sort of VTT.
I've been playing RPGs for well over 25 years now and even I at times prefer to simply pickup my Xbox controller and play Skyrim instead of prepping for and coordinating a meet for a game. Then worrying about WHERE to play. I'm sorry but it really does take too much effort to set up for RPGs and I'm not even talking about rules.
an MMORPG, for crying out loud, albeit with some other mugs doing the leg-workDo note that the fact that Paizo is *not* the company making the product is actualy a big deal. So far, Paizo's policy was always, "If another company wants to work with our stuff, let's let them! it will only work in evreybody's favour eventualy". that is the reason pathfinder has it's own OGL and dozens of third party publishers.
So Paizo decided to treat Goblinsworks similarily. Goblinsworks wanted to do a PF MMO, and, after considering the risks envolved and deciding that they will give Goblinswork a go at it, they signed the contract. This is simply an extention to the idea that Paizo has about being open with their product and wanting as many other people as possible to give their best shot of creating good PF products.
Bottom line is, Paizo is working with Goblinsworks, as collegeus, not as employers. There's a huge diffrence.
The CEO of Paizo is one of the founders of Goblinworks. I don't have an MBA, but I'm pretty sure that means that she's putting her own money into it. Placing the MMO in its own financial box is savvy business-wise, but it's not as impersonal as you're portraying there.
I think that the focus should be made on promoting RPGs as a hobby. Just like producers band together to promote a certain product or service ("Drink milk", "Eat salmon"), RPG companies could take steps *together* to improve hobby awareness.
"The power of cheese."
My gods. They've already branded and advertised powergaming, and I didn't even realize! :o
Ah, the "Condition of WotC and D&D is critical for our hobby, so let's all rally behind the Former Illustrious Industry Leader!" fallacy.
That's not really a fallacy. That's an, as yet, unprovable market prediction. It may be possible to measure its effect if or when it happens. Then, we'll know if it was a correct prediction or not.
I have no intention of rallying around the former industry leader simply because it sells D&D. If they make a good version of the game, I'll buy it. If they don't, I won't. But even in that case I wouldn't want the property shelved. Even a diminished D&D on the market is better than none.
Hasbro should spin-off TSR (with D&D and all the traditional TSR brand-names/properties). Perhaps Paizo will buy it.
The whole experiment with a niche-hobby company being a subsidiary of a major toy company was fail to begin with. (That said I don't blame the WotC guys for selling; they got $; it was Hasbro that made the mistake, when CCGs still seemed like more than a bubble* but potentially a significant addition to their total sales).
*Of course CCGs are still around, but they're past a peak of growth.