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Oops. Never mind. Apparently I've forgotten large chunks of the first movie.Except for the bit where it's a major component of the first film.I kind of doubt it's the Odinsleep, if only because it hasn't been introduced in the movies at all, so it's kind of a dirty trick to use it for a major plot point, without even mentioning it.** spoiler omitted **2 years of figthing to take the realms back takes a lot out of you. Plus he tends to fall to odinsleep whenever convenient. ** spoiler omitted **
Its understandable. After all the movie is largely very forgettable.
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How about that scene in Dark World where Heimdall is all like, 'Hey, do you hear an invisible ship floating by?' and runs out and climbs stuff and leaps on the invisible space ship and *stabs it to death?*
Hot dayum. I want that dude as the first line of defense for my magical city!
I wanted more of that. More of that and less turret guns.
Obviously, the common Asgardian soldier isn't going to be as bad-ass as Heimdall, so maybe it would take a bunch of them with axes jumping from the the flying longships.
Some archers or spearmen, taking advantage of great superhuman strength and / or dwarf-forged super-weaponry, either in place of or supplementing those gun turrets, might have given Asgard a tiny bit more of a mythic feel to it.
Even if the characters are never described by name, seeing a few Asgardians making an impressive showing of it could also drop the hint that Asgard isn't all Thor, Sif and the Warriors Three, but that there are others like Baldar or Vidar or Tyr or Skadi or Ullr (or Amora and Skurge) banging around, that could be called upon later, or not, as the directors wish.
Some Valkyries would not have gone unappreciated, as well!
Generic Asgardian cannon-fodder dude #32 in identical armor and sword got a bit too much play, IMO.
Still, it was a busy movie, and they already seemed to have their hands full giving Volstagg, Sif and Fandral their own brief moments in the sun (and kind of wrote Hogun out probably to save themselves having to give him one also).
Heimdall still owns, 'though.
Other random thoughts;
I'm not sure if the eyepatch and the beard are robbing his face of any expression, or if the writing sucks for his character, or if Anthony Hopkins is not really feeling this role (or some combination of the three), but his Odin continues to be deadly dull.
If, as mentioned upthread, Thor 3: an Even Darker World, has the Enchantress in it, and she's all glamering herself to look like other people, she totally needs to disguise herself as Sif, so that Jaimie Alexander gets some more lines and scenes. I like Natalie Portman and all, but all the Jane Foster in this film kind of cut Sif off at the knees and left her with a tiny role (Darcy's intern got more screentime!).
Rene Russo still has it.
And I just looked up the movie on IMDB to make sure I was spelling Jaimie Alexander's name right and discovered that Volstagg is also Titus Pullo? My head spins.
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How about that scene in Dark World where Heimdall is all like, 'Hey, do you hear an invisible ship floating by?' and runs out and climbs stuff and leaps on the invisible space ship and *stabs it to death?*
Hot dayum. I want that dude as the first line of defense for my magical city!
My buddy and I actually had a big laugh about that scene, because immediately after he notices the invisible ship, the giant UN-invisible ship shows up, and I was like, "Way to miss the obvious one, big guy." (Yes, I know, it goes invisible later, but I don't think they established that the "mother ship" had stealth capabilities by that point in the film).
We were like, "Man, Heimdall just is really never successful at any of his jobs," so for the rest of the movie, every time Heimdall was on screen, we'd mutter, "You had ONE job! ONE JOB!"
And I'd just to be on record as having said, immediately upon seeing Loki *die* - "Well OBVIOUSLY he's not dead."
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Just like after the first one I want a Sif and the warriors three movie. Forget Thor and Loki, Sif and the Warriors Three are my homies.
I'd see it.
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As for the ending again,
During the movie, after the Queen's death when Thor is trying to talk to Odin, even then he slips a bit like he's going to fall over from exhaustion. Even with Loki being as messed up as he was, if Odin was given the news that Loki was dead, it might have been enough to either;
A) Caused him to fall into the Odin sleep like the first movie when he was under too much stress or ...
B) Made him weak enough and off guard enough for Loki to defeat him quickly and take his spear and either kill him (I doubt) or imprison him (more likely). Imprisoning him would also happen with Option A of course since if he fell asleep, Loki would need to secure him.
That's my thinking anyway
Hey: Anyone else think that the stone giant Thor killed in his first scene looked just like a Pathfinder stone giant?
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It does. But it's actually a reference to the Kronan race, whom Thor met in his first appearance in the comics in Journey into Mystery :)
Thanks. When I read comics regularly in the late '80s & '90s, I was primarily reading independent and DC titles. I'm not well versed in the Marvel comics mythology at all. But I have enjoyed the Marvel Studios movies a great deal!
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Well, I just watched the movie.
It was dumb, of course, and that stopped a lot of my fun... but maybe I should just stop expecting more of movies just because they have bug budgets :P
The good thing about the movie was the new human girl (can't remember her name, really - Jane's friends, the one with the intern). Except for the silly out-of-nowhere romance in the end, she was actually a very good implementation of the "quirky scientist" concept.
The bad thing about the movie is a silly plot, a forgettable villain, all sorts of stupid inconsistencies (why are Asgardains so technologically inferior to a race that's been dormant for endless eons? Like fighting with spear and shield vs laser rifles?) and some bad acting from Odin - and Portman wasn't really giving it her best either (her character in this movie was paper thin anyway so it's not that I blame her...)
The ugly thing about the movie is Locki. While he still made the movie better with his presence, he was like a shade of his former self here. His schemes in the first Thor movie managed to surprise me several times. In The Avengers, his actor was being extra sharp and did an excellent job with the character - he actually managed to feel intimidating to me, even as his ass got kicked again and again, by everyone. In Thor 2, though, every one of his moves felt telegraphed to me about 3 scenes in advance , and the bit where he and Thor adventure together as a team actually sucked - it wasn't built well enough for me to buy into it, and actual character development was stunted to make room for some banter. He didn't surprise me even once. A disappointment, but only because I had really high expectations. He was still one of the best things about the movie.
I enjoyed it. I wasn't expecting a stellar plot after the first one, so I just sat back and enjoyed the action scenes.
I didn't like Jane's friend (the quirky scientist). Mostly because I don't like the actress (she's one half of the duo who stars in the painfully unfunny "Two Broke Girls" sitcom).
@Lord Snow: As for Asgardian tech...I'm not sure that it's that they're technologically inferior, it's more that they're culturally trapped in the past. They have force fields and interdimensional travel, which is pretty advanced stuff after all, but they're still very much a warrior culture. And a warrior culture doesn't really survive the shift to firearms and more advanced ranged weaponry, combat becomes too impersonal at that point, and less based on pure martial skill and such.
I'm pretty sure it was by choice, not lack of technology.
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I don't buy the Thor/Jane romance at all, in either movie. It feels forced.
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Well, I just watched the movie.
It was dumb, of course, and that stopped a lot of my fun... but maybe I should just stop expecting more of movies just because they have bug budgets :P
The good thing about the movie was the new human girl (can't remember her name, really - Jane's friends, the one with the intern). Except for the silly out-of-nowhere romance in the end, she was actually a very good implementation of the "quirky scientist" concept.
...
I think for the most part we'll have to agree to disagree, because I actually found it hugely entertaining. One thing I'd point out though is that the character you're talking about isn't new. She's Jane's intern in the first film. Hence the joke about the new intern being Jane's intern's intern. And the recurring joke about referring to mjolnir as mowmow.
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@Lord Snow: As for Asgardian tech...I'm not sure that it's that they're technologically inferior, it's more that they're culturally trapped in the past. They have force fields and interdimensional travel, which is pretty advanced stuff after all, but they're still very much a warrior culture. And a warrior culture doesn't really survive the shift to firearms and more advanced ranged weaponry, combat becomes too impersonal at that point, and less based on pure martial skill and such.
Well, I mean, that's the huge suspension of disbelief that the Thor story relies on - that somehow a culture that has access to dimensional travel and other advanced technology would dress up in such a silly way and act like a group of idiotic brutes from Earth's history.
Thing is, suspending disbelief is OK as long as the world acts consistently from the moment you accept it's basic assumptions. So if we established that Asgard is culturally locked in the past, I expect everything that has to do with Asgard to act similarly. Once they don't (like Dark Elves using ranged weapons) the absurdity of the core assumptions suddenly becomes important again, and it takes me out of the experience and makes me think about it more critically - a horrible idea in a Marvel film :)
Or that's how it is for me, anyway.
Kat Dennings is hawt!
OHWFA!!!
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Asgardians are from Asgard.
Darl Elves are from Svartalfheim.
Jotun are from Jotunheim.
Following your own logic, Lord Snow, did you find it odd that the ice giants didn't wear gleaming armor and use swords and such? Or was it much more believable that they had their own way of fighting, using their innate talents?
Why would the dark elves be any different?
Asgardians are from Asgard.
Darl Elves are from Svartalfheim.
Jotun are from Jotunheim.
Kat Dennings is from Heaven.
They don't just fall out of the sky, you know.
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If, as mentioned upthread, Thor 3: an Even Darker World, has the Enchantress in it, and she's all glamering herself to look like other people, she totally needs to disguise herself as Sif, so that Jaimie Alexander gets some more lines and scenes. I like Natalie Portman and all, but all the Jane Foster in this film kind of cut Sif off at the knees and left her with a tiny role (Darcy's intern got more screentime!).
I think she probably was involved a bit more originally, but she was injured on set.
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Well, I mean, that's the huge suspension of disbelief that the Thor story relies on - that somehow a culture that has access to dimensional travel and other advanced technology would dress up in such a silly way and act like a group of idiotic brutes from Earth's history.
Why silly? It's different, yeah, but you can say the same for different cultures here on Earth. To an Asguardians, or to someone from those cultures, the way YOU dress is probably pretty silly.
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Well, I mean, that's the huge suspension of disbelief that the Thor story relies on - that somehow a culture that has access to dimensional travel and other advanced technology would dress up in such a silly way and act like a group of idiotic brutes from Earth's history.Why silly? It's different, yeah, but you can say the same for different cultures here on Earth. To an Asguardians, or to someone from those cultures, the way YOU dress is probably pretty silly.
I don't actually think this kind of post modernist argument carries any sort of weight here at all. Asgardian cloths are incredibly silly for a culture as advanced as theirs. I'm a short pants & T-shirts guy. The kind of over the top splendor Asgardians wear is better suited for the gods of a myth of an ancient civilization than for a culture full of people who studied in universities.
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Asgardians are from Asgard.
Darl Elves are from Svartalfheim.
Jotun are from Jotunheim.
Following your own logic, Lord Snow, did you find it odd that the ice giants didn't wear gleaming armor and use swords and such? Or was it much more believable that they had their own way of fighting, using their innate talents?
Why would the dark elves be any different?
Because the Ice Giants are close enough to what a fantasy monster is to fit with the themes of the setting Thor exists in.
Because I find it unbeliveable that anyone from Asgard ever defeated the dark elves while using spears against laser rifles. So either the Asgards of old has actual sensible weaponry (in which case the "Asgardians are locked in the past" argument crumbles because obviously they are not only not advancing, they are regressing), or there's no reason they were able to defeat the dark elves when they were at full force, while modern day Asgardians are incapable of finishing the few stragglers who remain. And the movie clearly established that they can.
I mean, people, look at what you are doing here. You are defending the inner logic of a movie based on a big guy with a hammer bashing stuff. More thought has been put into the movie by posters here in the thread than by the screenwriters. I just noted that the way the laser rifles stood out as something that doesn't fit the themes of the movie very well lessened the experience for me.
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Well, sorry you didn't enjoy it then, I guess.
More Kat Dennings for the rest of us!!
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I mean, people, look at what you are doing here. You are defending the inner logic of a movie based on a big guy with a hammer bashing stuff. More thought has been put into the movie by posters here in the thread than by the screenwriters. I just noted that the way the laser rifles stood out as something that doesn't fit the themes of the movie very well lessened the experience for me.
You are attacking the inner logic of a movie based on a big guy with a hammer bashing stuff.
It's just not aimed at you, and you decided to point it out on a message board full of people who go above and beyond in their approach to suspension of disbelief and adoption of the rule of cool.
Not that I mind, as I can be fairly critical myself sometimes, but I think there's little common ground to cover in this conversation.
Just for the record, during this movie my willing suspension never saw gravity. I loved it.
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I don't actually think this kind of post modernist argument carries any sort of weight here at all. Asgardian cloths are incredibly silly for a culture as advanced as theirs. I'm a short pants & T-shirts guy. The kind of over the top splendor Asgardians wear is better suited for the gods of a myth of an ancient civilization than for a culture full of people who studied in universities.Well, I mean, that's the huge suspension of disbelief that the Thor story relies on - that somehow a culture that has access to dimensional travel and other advanced technology would dress up in such a silly way and act like a group of idiotic brutes from Earth's history.Why silly? It's different, yeah, but you can say the same for different cultures here on Earth. To an Asguardians, or to someone from those cultures, the way YOU dress is probably pretty silly.
I think your argument lacks sadly a lot in ability to think outside your own cultural mentality.
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I don't actually think this kind of post modernist argument carries any sort of weight here at all. Asgardian cloths are incredibly silly for a culture as advanced as theirs. I'm a short pants & T-shirts guy. The kind of over the top splendor Asgardians wear is better suited for the gods of a myth of an ancient civilization than for a culture full of people who studied in universities.
Well gee, I wonder why that is?
Must be a coincidence.
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I thought the Dark Elves worked pretty good. It was pretty much "classic elf stuff", but updated.
They had bows (lasers) and magic (grenades), but were beat back by the superior badassery of the Asgardians, for the most part, even though they were all using melee weapons only for the most part.
I think for the most part we'll have to agree to disagree, because I actually found it hugely entertaining.
Yeah I'm with Tinker. I don't have any arguments. I just don't agree with anything you wrote Snow.
While I liked it, not enough magic from Loki or Odin.
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Because I find it unbeliveable that anyone from Asgard ever defeated the dark elves while using spears against laser rifles. So either the Asgards of old has actual sensible weaponry (in which case the "Asgardians are locked in the past" argument crumbles because obviously they are not only not advancing, they are regressing), or there's no reason they were able to defeat the dark elves when they were at full force, while modern day Asgardians are incapable of finishing the few stragglers who remain. And the movie clearly established that they can.
Or maybe the Asgardians of old were able to close the distance and destroy the dark elves with superior melee prowess.
You know, what usually happens when your ranged warriors can't use their ranged weaponry and have to resort to melee.
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Yeah, the dark elves with space ships, laser rifles and black hole grenades didn't really work for me, but I still enjoyed the movie as a whole.
They were classic Eldar. What's not to like? :)
Something to also notice...even if the Asgardians were only using melee weapons, by the time Odin shows up only Dark Elf was left standing. Seems like the Asgardians could hold their own...it was mostly the surprise attack that favored the Dark Elves.
Yeah, the dark elves with space ships, laser rifles and black hole grenades didn't really work for me, but I still enjoyed the movie as a whole.They were classic Eldar. What's not to like? :)
More like Dark Eldar... with Vortex Grenades. ;-)