Witch question: Endurance, Time, or Deception (Time Stop or Miracle)


Advice


I'm building a Witch and I'd narrowed my patron choices down to three, reading the various guides they all seem well ranked (T/D are blues, E is green), and I'm debating which is the better choice.

It's really a case of liking them all (Endurance for Miracle, the others for Time Stop+several lower level spells I'd like), and at this point knowing I've either got to roll a d6/2 and randomize my choice, or come here and ask some other players for their personal opinions on Pros and Cons of Deception (v) Endurance (v) Time as Witch patrons.

Couple of notes if they matter...
The game will go to 20. It should spend about equal time in most level ranges, with maybe a little longer in the very middle and on the back end as we hit the main plot arch and later cap out the story.
The other group mates will include a Cleric/Druid (prob casty Druid but not 100%), Fighter (prob sword/board or TWF), Sorceror (unsure what type), and "archer" (unsure beyond that), BUT I know their will be at least 1 level... prob in the 7-13 range... I'll have to solo, so I can't entirely sacrifice self power for group functionality.
Group has a N to G alignment slant, absolutely no CE/NE allowed
Game will involve multiple adventure types (dungeon crawls, overworld intrigue, etc)


A more important question is at what level the game will start, rather than the end, as you can't be sure the character will survive that long.

Apart from Miracle Endurance is really rather crappy, and I'd avoid it unless you're starting close to 18th level or so.

Both Deception and Time are good patrons (among the best there is) but Deception is preferable at lower levels due to invisibility (see invisibilty isn't as frequent then), while Time brings both haste (awesome) and time stop at higher levels. I'd go with deception, as I prefer that kind of thematic/sneakyness. Cackling while invisible is fun.

Shadow patron is an option as you get the shadow evo spells later, while are quite handy for utility being able to replicate so much.

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I grabbed Time for my Witch because his motivation is to rebuild a tribe of his people, and allow it to flourish long after he passes.

I think picking the one that best fits your fluff is the best plan!


as you have no wizard I would go with shadow, but as that is not an option I would suggest.
Deception has invisibility which is awesome if you want to summon or cast combat control spells that don't break it.

Time has haste and silence, both together just as good as invisibility if you're the main buffer/debuffer of the group.

So it depends how actively you want to be in combat, if you want use abilities that break invsibility.
The problem with invisibility out of combat is, that you can't normally cast it on everyone all the time. And when you've got mass invisibility, well then you've got other possibilities normally.

Endurance is bad in my opinion, and as you have druid it is really not good.


I personally think we get caught up in 'what's the best patron' or 'what's the best hex/feat' or 'what's the best build'. I'd say develop your character's background, where they came from and what they're like, then decide. And people at the table who play their character as they foresaw them make the adventure way more cool, imo.

Recently I went through exactly what you're going through, then decided to just go with my character. I came up with Plague. And I'm having a riot.

Figure out your character and just go with it.


Yeah, unless you're starting at or very close to 18, I would not get Endurance patron.

If you have another caster in the party for Haste, I'd also write off Time patron, and just go with Deception. Of the 3 choices you like most, that is. If no one else can cast haste...it really just would come down to which suite of spells you personally like more.

Deception and Shadow are my personal favorites, and I like Elements patron if you plan to make use a lot of Dazing Spell feat/metamagic rod. Since witch already gets tons of will save or lose and some fort save or lose, adding reflex save or lose to the portfolio is rather handy, but w/o Elements patron, you're lacking for good reflex-based spells to apply it to.

Grand Lodge

Necro:
I am building a scarred witch doctor and I am trying to decide between these patrons as well. Being a SWD does endurance become more attractive? Is it in the same league as the other two? This is for a Jade Regent AP. I would only be coming in at 2nd level so a long way from Miracle!


Transformation would be better for boosting your Con and occasionally hitting things, Deception's better for protecting your SWD. You need another party member who is actually good at such things for the sort of protective spells which Endurance provides IMO, the patron alone can't carry the weight for the party there.

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If it were higher level, Water would be best, as Elemental Body into Water Elementals gives you a huge size bonus to Con.

Grand Lodge

avr wrote:
Transformation would be better for boosting your Con and occasionally hitting things, Deception's better for protecting your SWD. You need another party member who is actually good at such things for the sort of protective spells which Endurance provides IMO, the patron alone can't carry the weight for the party there.

I am thinking that Transformation could be really strong for boosting my DCs. I am not a big fan of Shapeshift but I likely won't make it to 9th level spells anyways. The main problem I have with Transformation is I am planning on taking the Animal Skin hex which gives me Beast Shape II at-will.

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