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Contingency; as far as I'm aware, you can set it up to trigger off of;
a) a specific action that you take, up to and including speaking a specific nonsense word or phrase
b) as a response to a specified event that you percieve to have occured/be occuring. (i.e., while you could set a trigger of 'cast displacement when an invisible creature comes within 30 ft of me', the contingency isn't 'smart' - it would only trigger if *you* noticed said invisible creature approaching, either with spells or mundane senses.)
And ofcourse RAW wise there is absolutely no argument for quickened still silent exchewed spells to not be covered by the grapple rules. I agree that logically it makes absolutely great sense, but rules wise then the paragraph under grappling covers all spellcasting while grappled, as it doesnt mention any exceptions, and neither does quickened, still, silent or any of the other meta feats.
No Component, Swift Spells still require Concentration, in a Grapple, and in a violent sleet storm.
They just avoid AoO, which is just a potential boost to the Concentration DC.
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SLA's which are just casting, but without the components also have the same issues with grappling. Why should spells get a free pass? I know you invested feats, but neither the person using spells(metamagic'd) or the person using an SLA is doing anything except trying to concentrate.
Unless the rules grant an exception the general rule applies.
Lol, seems like I struck a nerve here.
Anyway, I'm quite happy with QS as it is, I was just curious, since it seems that, without any way of avoiding the grapple concentration check, a L. 20 caster can be screwed rather easily. Yes, stay out of danger, avoid front-lines, and all that jazz--but it's not unthinkable for a DM to aim for the mage (or a BBEG to charge towards the caster, after taking a critted polar ray, for example).
Edit: re: SLAs, those still require a standard action, as opposed to Quicken. Again, my question arises from the definition of a swift action: namely, something that requires little effort.
Besides, it's not exactly a free pass: you've invested in two feats and you're using a level 9 spell slot (at least to DD out). Giving up one use of Meteor Swarm/Mage's Disjunction/Gate/etc. seems hardly like a free pass.
So... onto the crux of the matter: what are the more viable strats when a caster is grappled? Contingency a DD and call it a day?
Edit 2: Can a contingency trigger be a thought or some other non-somatic, non-verbal 'state'? So, it will trigger whenever I choose to trigger it with my mind.
Nobody is upset. If you want an example of upset posters go to the "Flurrying of changes to flurry of blows" thread. :)
Of course there is a verdict. The feats don't help. The rules say that if you are grappled you must make the concentration check, and there are no rules to counter it.
I even pointed out SLA's as a logical way to look at it.
PS:There is not a unanimous verdict, but there is not much I can do about taht.
Of course there is a verdict. The feats don't help. The rules say that if you are grappled you must make the concentration check, and there are no rules to counter it.
I even pointed out SLA's as a logical way to look at it.
PS:There is not a unanimous verdict, but there is not much I can do about taht.
-_-' read my post again please.
About the second point: SLA's are not the logical way to look at it, since they are standard actions (more demanding) than swift actions.
Anyway, thanks all!
In that case you still need rules that say quickened SLA's or quickened spells get a pass.
Why should you not need to concentrate just because they are cast faster?
Like I said the verdict is there.
I think you know the answer to all these questions... They aren't unclear per RAW.
You can diverge from RAW in your games, but then one doesn't need to worry about the details of RAW.
Swift Actions don't provoke AoOs... no other difference vs. other actions = Concentration still applies.
Grappled condition says nothing about auto-success of Touch attacks.
Fire Shield says: 'the attacker takes damage... at the same time they strike you with body or non-Reach weapon', so if/when they Maintain/Re-Establish a Grapple on you, Fire Shield would apply... but not until the attack roll (the time they 'strike you').
Polymorph doesn't remove Grapple status conditions, it just gives you ability boosts and other special attacks/bonuses.
Lol, you still haven't re-read my post, haven't you? The one where I use the word verdict referring to another matter entirely.
Another question! Do you automatically succeed with touch attacks when grappled? Or is it reasonable to get bonuses? Penalties? Just curious about the possibility of setting a contingency with a touch attack (enervation comes to mind), and whether it auto-hits.
Not as useful as Dimension Door, but I like the RP of draining levels from someone who just grappled you.
No, I did not read your post the last time. I am stubborn like that sometimes. :)
After reading it the answer is still the same. Remember that while we take turns in real life the battle is constant. You are trying to cast a spell or SLA, and the opponent is either trying to hurt you with his grapple, or move it into a pin(technically a worse grapple). I don't know if you watch UFC, but imagine that someone has you in a clinch, and they are either trying to knee you in the face or put you in a more restricting hold, while you are trying to fight them off. Imagine trying to read some complex formula or a read a novel. Now in the case of the metamagic feats you still need the same level of concentration. Never in D&D or PF has been about to cast as swift action been a freebie for not having to make a concentration check if you are grappled, or Violent motion while casting, or even rough weather. I am sure it is easier to do concentrate when it is raining than it is when someone is trying to put you in a full nelson or an armbar. The game also supports this with its modifiers.
Wind with rain or sleet while casting 5 + spell level
10 + grappler's CMB + spell level
The above is why casting on defensive is called out for quickened spells. When you cast defensively you are not actively being affected by anything. Every other situation on the table for concentration check has you already being affected by external forces, and being quick does not help you.
I was more certain about Fire Shield, and I can see why (RAW), polymorph makes no difference.
But it's kind of weird/funny if you're grappling a caster by the hands (easiest example to see), and Form of the Dragon triggers, the hands are forelegs (which are on the ground now), so either the grappler is on his belly, crouching, or has super long arms.
Edit: And he's smack in front of your face, which breathes elemental damage. Or if he grappled from behind, then he's pretty uncomfortable, what with wings and scales, but def. in a better position than the alternative.
Am I missing something here (in the situation itself, not the rules: I get that part).
The rules don't say exactly how you are held(grappled) only that you are. That would be fluff and up to the GM to describe why/how the grapple is maintained if he wants to.
Quandary handled the other questions.
Here's where I feel the concentration check breaks down: when you're tied up. Nobody's jostling you around, maybe you're sitting quietly in a closet in the dark... Yet as I understand the rules, since being tied up "works like a pin effect" you still have to make the same concentration check to cast a spell that could get you out.
it's pretty to imagine that being Pinned/Tied to the point that you are 'immbolized' could be painfully tight, impede your breathing to some extent, or otherwise be something that is constantly impinging upon your consciousness for every minute that your are Pinned/Tied: not just something you 'forget about'.
I agree. I think it is something that nobody thought of at the time though.
if the situation is substantially different from a normal Pin,
just call it 'immobilized' (overcome-able by CMB/EscapeArtist) and not a normal Pin per se.
voila.
fyi: the description of 'being tied with silk atop a satin, SPA quality bed' (which wracked the acronym part of my mind) didn't make me feel less hampered or constrained then if I imagined being on a dirt floor with electric cord.
I'd go with the being tied up so tight it's hard to breathe type of thinking. If you're tying something up that's trying to kill you, you're not likely to be putting much slack on the rope (or chain or silk or whatever).
I usually try to knock the spellcaster out after I've tied them up.
I agree, in a world full of spellcasters, it is probably a good idea to tie everyone up as tightly and distractingly as possible. As far as I know, tie up is a standard action, and I'm not sure how tightly I believe someone can be tied up in less than 6 seconds, but that's an abstraction I can live with.
From a balance perspective, it does make sense. If spellcasters can cast spells while tied up, then why would even moderately intelligent villains tie up PC casters? Why bother to have rules for tying up? If you can't hold them, it would be better to kill them; in the end, being unable to cast while tied up is good for casters.
But consider this: The DC to cast a spell while tied up by a person with +8 CMB is 18+spell level. +8 is not a particularly high CMB; that's achievable at level 1 with standard races (+1 BAB, 20 Str, Improved Grapple). It's also not a huge concentration DC; with combat casting and a decent casting stat, a low-level caster can make that most of the time.
But it is the same DC as casting a spell while you are being hit by an arrow from a longbow for maximum damage. The same as the DC to cast while being stabbed with a dagger for average damage 3 times by a person of average strength.
Really?
Surely, one of those DCs has got to be out of whack.