It would be dropping it. It should also be noted that the spell has a duration so many GM's will try to force you to make a save every round. Official clarification has been asked for, but never given.
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Dropping it that time.
A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item.
It's not the GM "forcing" anything, really. Every round that the item is in use requires a new save.
I've read that as a save to prevent the item from becoming greased. If that fails, the item is greased and you make another save or drop the greased item. Then the bit Chemlak quoted comes into play.
Attended items use their owner's saves when necessary.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The initial save negates the spell entirely if used to target an attended object.
Remember that in English, when a sentence refers to something like "this", "the [noun]" or some such phrase, it's always referring back to something that's already been mentioned. When grease says "avoid the effect", the only effect that's been mentioned is "create a greasy coating on an item", that's what the later clause is referring to and is what is "avoided" with a successful save.
Also note that the spell makes this distinction:
"Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect."
Unattended objects are "always affected", while attended objects get a save instead of always being affected. Well, an unattended object can't be dropped, so the only effect that can "always" apply to it is getting greased up in the first place. Since the very same sentence is making a comparison/contrast with attended items, that's the same effect that the initial save tries to "avoid".
Grease: "The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item."
Step 1: Cast it on the orc's greataxe
Step 2: Orc makes a Reflex save to avoid the effect. If this save is successful, the spell has no effect.
Step 3: If Orc failed the initial save, the axe is greasy and he drops it.
Step 4: If Orc tries to pick up or use the item, he must make a reflex save each round he does so. It's assumed if he fails this save, he drops the item again.
I have seen it read both ways.
For what it's worth, 3 out of 4 PFS GM's that I've talked to read it as a reflex save each round to avoid the effect of dropping the item.
An official ruling has been requested multiple times. As far as I know there has not been one.
Personally, I think the interpritation that matches Grick's summary is probably the best.
I agree with Grick's interpretation, with just one small caveat worth mentioning. If the initial save is failed, the item is greased for the entire duration. Subsequent successful saves mean the character holds onto the item, failed ones means he drops it.
I agree with Grick's interpretation, with just one small caveat worth mentioning. If the initial save is failed, the item is greased for the entire duration. Subsequent successful saves mean the character holds onto the item, failed ones means he drops it.
As I read it, that is Grick's interpretation. It's also the correct one.
If making the initial save negagted the spell, it would say "Reflexs negates"
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As I read it, that is Grick's interpretation. It's also the correct one.If making the initial save negagted the spell, it would say "Reflexs negates"
Since it doesn't say reflex negates, many people are using that as the reason you have to save every round even if you make the first one. In other words, each save only stops the dropping effect not the greased effect.
Since it doesn't say reflex negates, many people are using that as the reason you have to save every round even if you make the first one.
If it said reflex negates, that would mean someone who doesn't fall on a greased floor causes all the existing grease to vanish.
My interpretation:
Q: What is the effect of Grease?
A: It is either covering a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease, or creating a greasy coating on an item.
For the latter:
"Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect."
This means an object not in use gets a greasy coating.
This also means an object that is in use must have its bearer fail the save in order to get a greasy coating. If that save is made, then the effect doesn't happen, which means the object does not have a greasy coating.
If you were to argue that the effect of Grease is "Dropping the item" then by avoiding the effect you would avoid dropping the item, but it would still (somehow?) get a greasy coating. Further, that would mean objects not in use get dropped, even though they may not be held. Which makes no sense.
I understand what you are saying and I happen to agree.
But the wording is not terribly clear, so I can see how people get the other interpretation. I actually used to be in their camp, but I felt that was too powerful for a level 1 spell.
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I feel that by RAW, it's a save to avoid dropping it, not a save to negate the effect. thing is, it would say negate the spell, not negate the 'effect' dropping it is an effect of the spell. so you're negating the effect. but as you Kydeem said, it's really NOT well written, and if taken that way, it's too powerful for a 1st level spell.
Just remember if you get your GM to agree the grease is auto-success on the item and you need to make saves each round expect enemy caster to be greasing the hell out of your groups weapons ;)
works both ways ;)
Yes, the ground would be acceptable.
But then you just have to move half speed to leave the small area of effect. Or succeed at a acrobatics check to full move.
That is why so many people talk about casting on an opponents shield or weapon.
Yes, the ground would be acceptable.
But then you just have to move half speed to leave the small area of effect. Or succeed at a acrobatics check to full move.
If you cast it under someone, it's reflex or fall.
After that, it's Acrobatics to move at half speed, failing which takes your entire move for the turn, and failing badly means falling prone. The DC is pretty low, but armored types can still have a problem with it at low levels.
And while you're moving, you're essentially using Acrobatics to move on uneven ground without falling, which means you're flat-footed. (This last part is generally agreed on as to the intent of Grease, though not specifically RAW)
Readied actions to hit the guy walking on grease is a great way to get sneak attack and also knock them prone again.
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No you need an acrobatics check just to move at half speed that is why grease is so devastating against heavy armor classes.If you make the acrobatics check you are still flatfooted. Grease on the ground or on weapons is amazing.
Sorry, you are correct. I mis-remembered that part. I have never seen anyone (even the rare armored tank) fail the acrobatics check. So I never use the area effect version anymore.
The only caster I have with that spell is my sorc in PFS.
I have neve once encountered any one with heavy armor in PFS. So far they have all been high dex light armor types or casters that will just stand still and keep casting.
Also, my allied melee types will often complain that then they can't go through the area either.
So, I've only been using it on weapons and shields.
I was planning on using grease to make the rogue happy. But is the enemy flat-footed if he just stands on it (or walked onto it with his last move), or only on the actual moment that he's moving?
Only while moving.
I was planning on using grease to make the rogue happy. But is the enemy flat-footed if he just stands on it (or walked onto it with his last move), or only on the actual moment that he's moving?Only while moving.
To clarify, if you move though Grease and end your move on normal, ungreased ground, you're not flat-footed. If you end your move on grease, you're flat-footed, presumably until the stat of your next round.
Questions: This may apply to many spells but I am unsure about it. Can the wizard who casts this end the spell and make the grease vanish when she feels like it. Or once It is cast must everyone must just wait it out.
Grease
School conjuration (creation); Level bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (butter)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one object or 10-ft. square
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Save see text; SR no
(D) Dismissible: If the duration line ends with “(D),” you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell's effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell's verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Grease can be dismissed with a standard action.
To clarify, if you move though Grease and end your move on normal, ungreased ground, you're not flat-footed. If you end your move on grease, you're flat-footed, presumably until the stat of your next round.
Many people would take "While you are using Acrobatics in this way" to only apply while you're actually moving through the area. Once you're no longer moving, you're no longer using acrobatics in that way, thus no longer flat-footed.
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So could a Mage cast the spell to cover an entire creature making it hard for the creature to grab anything on themselves and having a hard time seeing or wiping it off their eyes? Think beholder here.
Actually, that use of the spell, to cover someone in grease, has an effect written out in the spell itself: The target gains a +10 to their Escape Artist checks to escape a grapple.
A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled.
Since it either covers an area of ground, or a single object, Grease can't really be used to coat a creature.
Target: one object or 10-ft. square
Hey guys was just wondering if you fail the save to attack with a greased weapon do you loose your standard or can can you spend your move to pick it up then try again.
Hey guys was just wondering if you fail the save to attack with a greased weapon do you loose your standard or can can you spend your move to pick it up then try again.
Does this example accurately portray your question?
Round 1:
* Wizard casts Grease, targeting fighter's longsword. Fighter fails reflex save, and drops greasy sword.
* Fighter attempts to pick up greasy sword, makes a reflex save, and succeeds. Fighter moves up to engage wizard in melee.
Round 2:
* Wizard steps back and casts a spell or whatever
* Fighter steps forward and intends to attack Wizard with the greasy sword. Fighter attempts a reflex save, and fails, dropping greasy sword.
Did fighter's attempt to use the greasy sword expend his standard action, or can he use his standard action to do something else?
(I don't know what the answer would be)
Hey guys was just wondering if you fail the save to attack with a greased weapon do you loose your standard or can can you spend your move to pick it up then try again.Does this example accurately portray your question?
Round 1:
* Wizard casts Grease, targeting fighter's longsword. Fighter fails reflex save, and drops greasy sword.* Fighter attempts to pick up greasy sword, makes a reflex save, and succeeds. Fighter moves up to engage wizard in melee.
Round 2:
* Wizard steps back and casts a spell or whatever
* Fighter steps forward and intends to attack Wizard with the greasy sword. Fighter attempts a reflex save, and fails, dropping greasy sword.Did fighter's attempt to use the greasy sword expend his standard action, or can he use his standard action to do something else?
(I don't know what the answer would be)
Yes that is it exactly.
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I may have read this in one of those Sage Advice pieces in Dragon or something, but I remember a caveat about Grease from ealier editions that said a creature choosing to Run, Charge or otherwise quickly move or slide into a Greased area got no save to avoid falling. Sneaky GMs would put Grease on trapped stairs or floors that suddenly became slides or have casters ready an action to Grease the floor in front of charging PCs in order to rob the characters of their Reflex save.
I think the idea was that the character lost their save because they had technically waived their saving throw by choosing or being forced to move faster than what the spell allows. It seems kind of shady, but I can imagine a few scenarios where it would make sense. Anyone know if this still applies or does anyone play by these rules?
