Well you could try life without power attack! Enforcer will give you sickened for round/point of damage via Intimidate. Also the dex increases ref/initiative/AC/AoO's.
I have the luxury of 25 points so say..
Human
Str 9
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 20 with racial
Wis 7 getting +2 from 1st level of witch and Magus.
Cha 8
Use the bonus feat for weapon finesse and take Rime. Then you're pretty much on track for a regular build.
You've got +3 to hit until you pick up Prehensile Hair to swap to Int to-hit. Will make surviving early on easier due to increased AC. I don't see the dex investment ever being a waste - it helps in so many ways.
Damage can come from Constrict. Aren't we building on the concept of prone/grapple/constrict/fatigued/entangle/sickened anyway? Basically we ruin their day and the rest of the party go to town because whatever they do, it's now going to stick due to screwed AC or saves
I'm also thinking of focusing on vampiric touch with Empower Spell (which with the new ruling can be used with frostbite).Could you point me towards this ruling?
Seconded.
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I honestly don't see why arcane accuracy can solve this problem. First of all at low levels you will have limited arcane points so it is totally out of the question to use arcane accuracy on each attack.
More importantly arcane accuracy uses a swift action, which will prevent you from using constrict on your target on the same turn, thus severely reducing action economy.
This comment has come up a few times lately and made me go back and look at the posted Hexcrafter guide as opposed to my local copy and it looks like the last update I did got reverted which is where this confusion is coming from.
The real build is supposed to have Final Embrace as one of their feats which was not on the posted copy. We've restored the changes that were removed somehow and things are back the way they should be.
Does it remove the ample recommendations to use I'll omen that isn't on the spell list!
Well you could try life without power attack!
That's for sure, I didn't still took it myself, and I just hit level 8. Still, I can't see the point: prehensile hairs go with int for attack and damage, and at early levels you still can use arcane accuracy for encounters you can't hit AC. At early levels it should be fine. Anyway, since you get pretty early the hairs, weapon finesse seems a really waste, obviously if you take a defiler like build. If not, finesse is a good feat if you plan to go dervish dance.
Enforcer will give you sickened for round/point of damage via Intimidate. Also the dex increases ref/initiative/AC/AoO's.
Enforcer will give shaken condition, maybe frightened for 1 round, and RAW it says of weapon damage, so frostbite is not technically viable. Ref saves really doesn't matter so much, imo they are the least important saves. AC shouldn't be a problem with shield+mirror image, even at low levels. Intiative, better taking improved initiative than weapon finesse. AoOs are sure worth, but I wouldn't put that much effort on an high starting score. That said, it's still my opinion, I don't like too much the dex builds.
Use the bonus feat for weapon finesse and take Rime. Then you're pretty much on track for a regular build.You've got +3 to hit until you pick up Prehensile Hair to swap to Int to-hit.
...and set on fire weapon finesse.
Once you have grabbed a monster do any remaining frostbite charges become lost?
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Enforcer will give you sickened for round/point of damage via Intimidate. Also the dex increases ref/initiative/AC/AoO's.Enforcer will give shaken condition, maybe frightened for 1 round, and RAW it says of weapon damage, so frostbite is not technically viable. Ref saves really doesn't matter so much, imo they are the least important saves. AC shouldn't be a problem with shield+mirror image, even at low levels. Intiative, better taking improved initiative than weapon finesse. AoOs are sure worth, but I wouldn't put that much effort on an high starting score. That said, it's still my opinion, I don't like too much the dex builds.
That's an incorrect statement. The feat says when you deal non-lethal damage with a weapon not that the weapon must deal non-lethal damage.
For most classes this becomes a not easy option but the Magus spellstrike ability specifiesa magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell.
meaning the weapon dealt the damage which happens to be non-lethal.
Ill Omen is definitely on the spell list. Page 251 of Ultimate Magic added the curse, disease, emotion, pain, poison, and sorrow descriptors to various spells from the CRB and APG.
Does it remove the ample recommendations to use I'll omen that isn't on the spell list!
Are you referring to the familiar with a wand thing, or the Hexcrafter himself using it? As has been stated by Mathwei and Gregory, as a Hexcrafter you get access to all curse spells, which includes ill omen, however I still cannot find a way to give ones familiar access to that spell so they can use a wand of it.
I was referring to the familiar, sorry I didn't make that clear!
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I was referring to the familiar, sorry I didn't make that clear!
Yeah that was removed in one of the later edits, not sure how it popped back up. I've removed the offending sentence.It looks like I'm just going to have to go back and re-edit this entire document to be honest. I usually just worked on the parts that I wrote but with Str Ranger out of commission for a while I guess I'll give the whole thing a once over.
Question, If you took the familiar spell feat, and used it to give your familiar ill omen, would that count as them having the spell for the purpose of using wands?
Or the Ceru from the inner sea bestiary has luckbringer, which while not as good since there is a save, can be used on opponents or to let you roll twice and take the better roll. Plus since it would use your HD for the limit it could do it more often. That is the best I got, otherwise max your UMD and have your familiar use your bonus.
Other thoughts, I've never actually played a class with a familiar, but they get skill points every level right? Since all Hit Dice requirements use yours, that includes maximum skill ranks right? So really you could just give the farie dragon enough skill ranks that he will almost never fail. I could also be completely wrong about all of this, I just really want it to work.
Once you have grabbed a monster do any remaining frostbite charges become lost?
Anyone?
I appreciate that we'll normally be using our hair to attack once we get prehensile hair but there will be times when we run out of arcane points and if you have weapon finesse to fall back on you can also use it with your increased bab for extra attacks if there are multiple monsters within reach. You'll only ever get the one attack with the hair.
Hitting multiple monsters with frostbite will at least inflict fatigue, entangle and sickened conditions like a non-hair build would.
Plus, if we're taking two witch levels to start with our AC, hit points and general survivability will suck. We're starting off very squishy and have a bab progression of..
Lvl - bab - arcane points
1st - 0........0
2nd - 1........0
3rd - 1........5
4th - 2........5
5th - 3........5/6
6th - 4........7/8
7th - 4........8/9
and we don't get prehensile tail until 6th level! So 5 levels with a +1 Str modifier added to the above bab. And arcane accuracy doesn't come on line until 5th level so levels 1-4 were only getting +1 from the arcane pool ability. Take another 2 off from spell combat and we're not hitting very often!
A starting Dex of +3 and finesse is looking even better!
Sometimes we struggle through a few early levels until our shtick is set up, I know this, but we're really clutching a straws until level 6.
I think the first level needs to be Magus so you get a bone early on. Now you have chain shirt plus dex and you stand a chance!
A starting INT of 20 is really good for this build. You'll have 3 x 1st level spells and then take Witch at level 2 for another 3 x 1st level spells. Both lists have enlarge person and frostbite.
Use a witch enlarge person pre-combat with 20% arcane spell failure so you can now spell-combat at 10ft. without losing the frostbite.
Prepare 3 witch enlarge and 3 Magus frostbite, or 2-4 if you want. The key here is not needing shield as you have armour and dex for 17AC.
That's an incorrect statement. The feat says when you deal non-lethal damage with a weapon not that the weapon must deal non-lethal damage.
For most classes this becomes a not easy option but the Magus spellstrike ability specifiesa magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell.meaning the weapon dealt the damage which happens to be non-lethal.
Right. It seems however that many thinks that the spell is not part of "dealing damage with a weapon", my dm play this way, so I have hard time to remember the correct ruling. However, I'd like a faq to clarify that.
@VaeVictus: go on the first post, read the guide to the hexcrafter, and search at the bottom for the defiler, aka "the magus that will make your dm cry".
Yea, 10x Blackstorm. So it's for the defiler.
I'm familiar with the guide I just wasn't sure what is the topic of the current discussion.
Ah, ok, I thought you didn't know the guide :)
I think the the defiler build is almost the only discussed here.. all the other builds are somewhat "standard", nothing that you cannot craft yourself. The defiler has the spark of style inside (yeah, I like the concept of the defiler... Even if I'd never play it in a normal campaign, it's really gamebreaking - though I could play it in a really high power campaign :P)
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@stuart, the point of the Witch dip is to get the Hair attack from that, it's ALWAYS on and costs nothing to use. As for running out of Arcane Pool Points it can happen but is unlikely with your high Int and Wyroot being in the game.
Spending stat points/feats on anything other then Int is short term gain for long term loss. Like all organized builds the first couple of levels are a bit tough but it's during the easiest part of the game where the challenges are more survivable. You want to take the squishiest class levels first to minimize your risk and get to the point of the build as quickly as possible, the Constricting Hair.
Since Raith Shadar's disappeared, does anyone else know what he's talking about?Seconded.I'm also thinking of focusing on vampiric touch with Empower Spell (which with the new ruling can be used with frostbite).Could you point me towards this ruling?
I think he was referring to an old JJ post in which he said that the multiple touch spells doesn't count as holding the charge, so you was able to cast frostbite, and get +1d6+lev to every hit AND discharge another touch spell mantaining frostbite on. A FAQ corrected that.
@Mathwei: isn't wyroot sub-optimal for a hexcrafter and useless for the defiler? A standard magus gain really high advantage from high critical range, but I don't know 18-20 wooden weapons. For the defiler, he attack only with his hairs, so he don't use a wyroot weapon, so I don't know how it could be useful.
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You use the wyroot, normally a wyroot kukri (become friends with a druid and cast ironwood on it) and buy a bag of rats. After the fight CDG the rats and recover all the arcane pool points you want.
This lets you spend as many points a fight as you want since you get them all back after every fight.
You use the wyroot, normally a wyroot kukri (become friends with a druid and cast ironwood on it) and buy a bag of rats. After the fight CDG the rats and recover all the arcane pool points you want.
This lets you spend as many points a fight as you want since you get them all back after every fight.
God. Legal, but really cheesy. Got it. Anyway, this is more some kind of TO, more than a viable method... If you are out of cities/merchants, you're screwed at the first area effect that hit you... unless you carry the rats in a bag of holding, in which case they could run out of air... Anyway, nice. Maybe I steal the idea of a wyroot ironwooded kukri. Can ironwood be made permanent in any way?
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If all the rats die then so what, just catch more. It's a pretty easy Survival check to capture more Or just use the kukri on whatever you beat in the fight. Remember with the wyroot anytime it crits it does NO damage so the target doesn't die. Just keep CDG them until you have all your points back then switch to a different weapon and kill them.
The rats (or any other small portable critter, makes no difference) are just there if you don't have a target left after the fight.
As for the ironwood, yup you can. Buy a scroll of permanency and give it to the druid casting the ironwood for you. Done.
Ironwood is not listed in permanency list.
CDG?
The obvious choice has to be arcane accuracy, for you +5 on all you attacks for a round. Would allow to to hit high AC or sink points off your to-hit to ensure you defensively cast. However if you're not really having to-hit issues then you are open to pick something that you think will help you wherever you're having problems.
How does your DM feel about Enforcer? Have you put ranks into intimidate - you could sink them all into it this level. Pick up a circlet of persuasion?
Improved Familiar would be good too. Faerie Dragon for wand goodness. If you have heroism running normally the dragon could we wanding you with Moment of Greatness every round. Or ray of enfeeblement, grease, liberating command, true strike, summon monster I, vanish etc etc. Lots of tricks.
Final sentence of the spell.
The GM may allow other spells to be made permanent.
That include its opposite: the DM may not allow additional spells :)
I mean, I'd like a more "rulewise" way. Anyway, I'll ask to my dm.. even if he already thinks I'm really overpowered, to a degree that he's most worried about me than the paladin. Now, at 8th level maybe he has some point. The bad side it's that if he thinks that I have a trouble class, I don't think he ever allow me a wyroot scimitar or cutlass with permanent ironwood.
Yeah, can't see my DM going for wyroot either but it is total cheese so I'm not that bothered. I'm sure the dev's didn't intend you to be able to spam out all your arcane points every encounter!
CDG? Whats it mean?
CDG? Whats it mean?
Coup De Grace.
Seconded.I'm also thinking of focusing on vampiric touch with Empower Spell (which with the new ruling can be used with frostbite).Could you point me towards this ruling?
Since Raith Shadar's disappeared, does anyone else know what he's talking about?Seconded.I'm also thinking of focusing on vampiric touch with Empower Spell (which with the new ruling can be used with frostbite).Could you point me towards this ruling?I think he was referring to an old JJ post in which he said that the multiple touch spells doesn't count as holding the charge, so you was able to cast frostbite, and get +1d6+lev to every hit AND discharge another touch spell mantaining frostbite on. A FAQ corrected that.
@Mathwei: isn't wyroot sub-optimal for a hexcrafter and useless for the defiler? A standard magus gain really high advantage from high critical range, but I don't know 18-20 wooden weapons. For the defiler, he attack only with his hairs, so he don't use a wyroot weapon, so I don't know how it could be useful.
Nope. Ruling about Empower Spell. As far as I know it is still in the FAQ and still applies.
Hey stuart, thanks for the suggestions. Improved familiar and Enforcer are feats. I did plan on improved familiar later. Not sure if I want to include enforcer, it looks good in theory just not sure if I want it or if DM will let it work with frostbite.
Anyway, Arcane accuracy looks nice, but is it better to use arcane strike? It costs 2 arcana instead of 1, but is against touch AC. I don't want both obviously, so if I hold out for arcane strike is spell-scars, evil eye, swamp's grasp, or natural spell combat (claw) worth it? Is hasted assault a good choice for level 9 arcana if I grab arcane accuracy at level 6?
Thanks again :)
Enduring blade looks good if your DM likes to pack multiple encounters together.
Spell scars- what would you pick?
Swampy- really depends on the type of campaign you're in but generally I think it's weak.
Evil eye is solid and in 2 levels improves to -4, even better!
Cackle goes with evil eye really well but I wonder just how much time in combat you're going to not want to full attack?
I'd be seriously tempted to take a level of WHW, pick prehensile hair and turn into a defiler - it's my preferred build.
Flight- it doesn't sing and dance but is just very solid and you'll get a lot of use from it.
+INT to attacks or touch attacks is a tricky choice, in your case with only +5 INT I think it depends on whether you're missing much, and if you're having to cast defensively much - remember you can sink the to-hit points into casting defensively. Personally I prefer arcane accuracy but you know what will help your character the most.
Mathwei might be a better person to ask!
I included the feats as when I looked through your build they were the ones that stood out as being required, imo!
The recent ruling on half-human races means that Half-Elf might be the new best race for Magi in general. The big draw of Elf, the extra Arcana via Favored Class Bonus, can now be selected by Half-Elves.
One other major feature of Elves (the +2 racial bonus on Caster Level checks vs. Spell Resistance) can be regained, albeit at the cost of a feat. However, it does have a nice silver lining for high-level characters: As a bonus gained with a feat, it now qualifies to be doubled by Spell Perfection. With Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, Elven Spirit, and no other bonuses, your Perfected Spell auto-succeeds against the average SR of creatures 2 CR higher than your level.
Nope. Ruling about Empower Spell. As far as I know it is still in the FAQ and still applies.
Sorry, I misread your phrasing. I understood that "empowered vampiric touch" could be used with "frostbite", hence my answer :)
The recent ruling on half-human races means that Half-Elf might be the new best race for Magi in general. The big draw of Elf, the extra Arcana via Favored Class Bonus, can now be selected by Half-Elves.
One other major feature of Elves (the +2 racial bonus on Caster Level checks vs. Spell Resistance) can be regained, albeit at the cost of a feat. However, it does have a nice silver lining for high-level characters: As a bonus gained with a feat, it now qualifies to be doubled by Spell Perfection. With Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, Elven Spirit, and no other bonuses, your Perfected Spell auto-succeeds against the average SR of creatures 2 CR higher than your level.
Agreed.
So is it better for a defiler to take skill focus intimidate or have the +2 to will saves?
With the need to basically dump wisdom due to MAD having the extra +2 to will saves is good, add it to the other two +2's from 1st level Magus and Witch to compensate. Or be satisfied with just the two +2's from class and compensate for dumping Cha and boost your intimidate bonus.
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The recent ruling on half-human races means that Half-Elf might be the new best race for Magi in general. The big draw of Elf, the extra Arcana via Favored Class Bonus, can now be selected by Half-Elves.
One other major feature of Elves (the +2 racial bonus on Caster Level checks vs. Spell Resistance) can be regained, albeit at the cost of a feat. However, it does have a nice silver lining for high-level characters: As a bonus gained with a feat, it now qualifies to be doubled by Spell Perfection. With Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, Elven Spirit, and no other bonuses, your Perfected Spell auto-succeeds against the average SR of creatures 2 CR higher than your level.
Agreed.
So is it better for a defiler to take skill focus intimidate or have the +2 to will saves?
With the need to basically dump wisdom due to MAD having the extra +2 to will saves is good, add it to the other two +2's from 1st level Magus and Witch to compensate. Or be satisfied with just the two +2's from class and compensate for dumping Cha and boost your intimidate bonus.
Never take skill focus intimidate. It's such a small part of the Defiler build and the DC is basically static there is no need to ever do burn that feat. It's just a skill so there are any number of items that easily meet and exceed the bonus from skill focus as to make it a waste of a feat.
Agreed.So is it better for a defiler to take skill focus intimidate or have the +2 to will saves?
With the need to basically dump wisdom due to MAD having the extra +2 to will saves is good, add it to the other two +2's from 1st level Magus and Witch to compensate. Or be satisfied with just the two +2's from class and compensate for dumping Cha and boost your intimidate bonus.
Never take skill focus intimidate. It's such a small part of the Defiler build and the DC is basically static there is no need to ever do burn that feat. It's just a skill so there are any number of items that easily meet and exceed the bonus from skill focus as to make it a waste of a feat.
You're right there are, however there is a difference between theory and playability. The current Defiler build in the guide doesn't even start with Magus. I want to play a Magus, not 2 levels of Witch with an AC of 13 and no armour, mage armour or shield/shield spell - a weakling that can't fight!
I'm going to be playing this character from level one and I want to play a Magus. No one is going to want to play through 2 levels of Witch to follow your suggestions. If I were replacing a dead character around level 5/6 or higher I might follow your build but I'm here to play a Hexcrafter! Don't get me wrong, I like your build but I couldn't play it from level 1.I'll post my build when I'm finished tweaking.
My point is that that +3 to intimidate at low level will make a big difference to my chances to add the shaken condition - the whole ethos behind the build - pile on the debuffs. I'm not saying its the best option but as I'm going to go with Enforcer early in the build it is a good option and worth considering. There are far higher priorities where to spend gold in the first 5 or 6 levels when it comes in in dribs-n-drabs, taking that feat will give the dude playability.
The DC is roughly 10 + level + 3 giving you about a 50% chance to succeed without boosting you intimidate score. Roughly.
I go away for a couple of months and HALF ELF is the new best race?
How dare they!
Just checking up (been away awhile)
this new spell scars arcana looks interesting......
but on the surface just looks like a way to create scrolls and cast them without extra actions to pull them out......
other than that follows the normal rules for scrolls.
so what....it's basically extra spell slots you pay for.
Hmmm. Not sure how to rate this. on the surface it looks good but Hexcrafters are not really spell starved because of the backup of hexes
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Just checking up (been away awhile)
this new spell scars arcana looks interesting......
but on the surface just looks like a way to create scrolls and cast them without extra actions to pull them out......
other than that follows the normal rules for scrolls.
so what....it's basically extra spell slots you pay for.
Hmmm. Not sure how to rate this. on the surface it looks good but Hexcrafters are not really spell starved because of the backup of hexes
It's a powerful arcana with several unique advantages.
A). It's a scroll spell that can't be stolen or destroyed and works inside a deeper darkness field (Better then an oil of daylight).B. It's 18 extra spell levels per day that doesn't eat up your memory (drop all utility spells as scars since their levels don't matter).
C. It doesn't say these have to be spells on the magus spell list. ANY spell can be made into a scar (no guarantee they can successfully be cast but still useful ability)
It's a very useful and flexible arcana and should be rated accordingly.
Yeah, probably a solid green.
Awesome for utility and endurance (though hexcrafters have the best endurance of any other magai)
Blue is reserved for balls to the wall awesome.
It's pretty sweet but not moronic to not take it.