in my play groups there are 2 distinct styles of play.
some people like myself are Purists, we enjoy the simple purity in playing classes through as a single class. If I am playing a fighter I am playing a fighter, no tossing in a random level of sorcerer for a few cute spells or 2 levels of barbarian for rage and uncanny dodge. a fighter is a fighter is a fighter and if I want to play something else I make a new character.
Some people on the other hand are cusomizers, they thoroughly enjoy playing characters with 2 or 3 classes thrown together to create the perfect representation of what ever they imagine their character to be. I am not only talking about min/max players but players who simply tend to believe that their character is more of a fighter/cleric/rogue than any pure class.
I wish i could do poles but since I cant I just wonder how other people feel about it.
personally I am a purist
I know some people fall some where in between but what would you say you fall closest to a Purist or a Customizer?
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Why is this an 'or' thing?
I do both, but more often than not, I play single-classed characters (in no small part because the character dies or the campaign ends before I reach an appropriate multiclassing point).
I used to be a customizer in 3.0 and 3.5, but since Pathfinder classes are mostly best when played single-class, I've returned to doing just that. I can represent my character through roleplay, no matter if he doesn't have that shiny feature from another class.
I also have that personal quirk that I first decide which class I want to play, then I build the character around that class, not the other way around.
For me it depends on the concept. If I need to dip then I dip, but if not then I stay in one class.
Why is this an 'or' thing?
I am quite certain that it is more of a sliding scale. I acknowledged that when I said "I know some people fall somewhere in between"
but I also figure most people can say "I do both but I am more of a costomizer" or "generally i am more of a purist though some time I like to tweek for one reason or another"
just trying to get a feel for how people in the community play.
one thing I like about Pathfinder is that it makes BOTH options equally viable.
Generally I'm more of a purist, as I like getting awesome at something. But not all the time.
Remember when humans couldn't multiclass, only dual-class (which sucked)?
Remember when the bard class was what people went if they wanted a bit of everything?
Good times :)
A purist, definitely.
I do whatever i need to fit my concept. If it can be done with a single class, i do it. However, if it needs more than one class to be what I want him to be, i'll dip without a 2nd thought. I dunno why it's a black and white thing for you. Consider me very happy in my gray area.
In theory, a customizer. Very much so; if you're a purist, you're Doing It Wrong. If the most satisfying "Ninja" I can build is a Monk/Alchemist, that's hat I'll use. Writing "Ninja" in the character class slot doesn't make you a ninja, being stealthy, sneaky and capable of ganking a fool does.
In practice....mostly a purist, but that's because I usually play casters, and almost nothing is worth losing caster levels for.
I'd say i'm probably a purist. That is unless my character's background involves actually multi-classing. Back in my old gaming group Rogue and Fighter got abused for multi-classing. We played 3.5 and almost every character 2 certain individuals played had 1 or 2 levels in either fighter (for feats) or rogue (for skill points).
Example:
Me- (is writing down the stats for my new character)
Other guy- (while looking in a book of prestige classes, and who's character is a barbarian) Well, looks like i'm going to have to take a level of rogue.
me- why?
other guy- because I need X skills to become a Reaping Mauler at level 6 (the level we were starting at).
me- Why would your CHARACTER take a level in rogue?
other guy- Because he wants to start out as a Reaping Mauler.
I !@#$ you not.....this happened......a lot.
So glad I don't play with them any more.
HAHA. come to think of it I think the only time I multi-class is when I am starting a game at level X.
I think its because I hate the idea of spontaneously learning something I have no reasonable reason to know.
for example If I am playing a ranger and I want 2 levels of alchemist for the first discovery I start thinking... ok... honestly how did I spontaneously wake up with all kinds of scientific and magical knowledge. Unless there is serious in game downtime and a viable RP reason for me to gain some skill (I spent a month training with the archers of the city watch to gain 1 level of fighter and weapon specialization long bow) I can never bring myself to do it.
You can always fluff that you were training for the 2nd class, and it is not different than suddenly gaining new skills from a single class character.
Waking up on Monday with 3 new spells, 1 new language, a new feat, and a new class ability is not really that much better.
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It's possible to do both at the same time.
I don't mean sliding scale. You can portray a character as vastly diverse but only use a single class. Make a wizard who spreads focus amongst a great many schools and play the character as a magical dilettante.
Then make a fighter/wizard/eldritch knight who is single-mindedly dedicated to the sole focus of being the supreme magical combatant. Extremely narrow in ideal, yet built from multiple classes.
I am pretty close to a purist. I much prefer a single class that fits my concept then mixing and matching. But at the same time I have and will play characters that multiclass or take a prestige class if it fits the concept I am looking for. I just prefer to get a single class that covers it, either form paizo, or a 3rd party. 'Class Bloat' has never been an issue for me.
I will not single class dip unless its to get into a PRC that requires 1 (or 2) levels to accomplish- like the EK or MS or whatever.
If I'm going to multiclass its going to be something substantially equivalent- no "oh goodie, paladin gives me lots of stuff so I'll find a way to staple that onto my sorc and then write up a backstory that supports it".
Thats just not me. I'm much much more likely to just roll a class straight through, beginning to end.
-S
Umbral,
I have found that Pathfinder has WONDERFULL core/base/alternate/archtype classes and that prestige classes are largely unnecessary because, for example the Base class Magus, represents the fighter/mage much better than the Eldritch Knight prestige class does.
Thats not to say that you cant play the Eldritch Knight... but if you do you are by definition customizing.
there is nothing wrong with that, its perfectly legitimate. My close friend is a master at it. he decides he wants to build a specific character say Thor, and he builds a cleric/fighter and works hard to get a thunderous returning hammer. though he has a PURE goal ultimately he is customizing.
Dont get too stressed over the lables just wondering how people like to play, Im not judging anyone.
I'm closer to the purist, but I have no problems with adding other class levels to get my character to where I want them to be. In a classless system, I'd probably be happy as a clam, but hey, sometimes the concept requires spellcasting AND sneak attack, oh, and some uncanny dodge too, and .... :)
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If it fits the character concept, I remain in one class. If not, I explore.
Although there is benefit to remaining in a single class up to level 20 under Pathfinder rules, I hardly ever do so. All adventures I play in start low-to-mid levels and never, ever go above 10th level (i.e. we play APs until we get 'bored', then move on to next). So, incentive to stay in one class to get 20th level benefit is non-existent.
My experience, of course.
Stay the same class if I can or if I specifically was creating at higher levels and then had my character make a career cahnge as a conscious choice.
I like the idea of multiclassing, but can never bring myself to do it.
When it comes to optimisation, it may leave me a little behind, but I always feel like I'm putting off my classes features by taking a level in another class.
I would say that I am a purist who would like to be a customizer.
Depends on whether or not my character concept calls for it.
That's it.
100% purist. My concept usually involves level 3 at maximum and then I just take it to the conclusion.
Whatever suits the character. My most recent characters have seen a lot of dips, mostly for a particular early class ability or to get something as a class skill (I get covetous of that +3 bonus) or more skill points... but I've also got many single class character concepts and characters under my belt.
I guess you could say I am a customizer, but one that sticks to single classes when that most fits my custom concept.
Well if it's an either/or you're looking for, I definitely fall on the 'Customizer' side of things, although I prefer to think of it as a more organic approach. Not only do I love mixing and matching classes, but in spite of the extra work, I generally prefer gestalts and will frequently level a character in whatever class, skills, and feats makes the most sense for what they've been doing since the previous level advancement.
The best example of this is my longest running character, Alis Kirmoon (aka Wardove).
2: After the death of their parents, their father's unscrupulous younger brother (who secretly hated that his half-elven nieces were the inheritors of what he saw as his elven duchy), the adolescent twins were split up and sent away with no contact with each other. Alexis, being more self-disciplined, was sent to a wizard's academy where he expected she would perish during the rigorous magic trials.
Alis' unbreakable attitude however deserved something more demeaning. While she had always admired the goddess of passion and inspiration, the humans in neighboring lands had somewhat based notions of how that goddess was worshipped (think Calistria). At the very least, she would be trained up to be a suitable wife he could marry off to some lecherous human noble.
Yet while Alis hated the corrupt priestesses and their lewd practices, she did hone her skills at bluffing her way out of trouble, getting in and out of places she didn't belong, and learning more than a few truths about her goddess. (Rogue/Cleric)
3: It wasn't too long before the retainers loyal to Alis' father learned of her true where abouts and secretly removed the emotionally scarred youth from her confinement behind her 'uncle's' back. While the time was not yet right to confront the usurper, they saw to it that the girl was entrusted to the care of a more upstanding abbey where she could recover in both mind, body, and spirit. There, with the monks and priestess who truly embodied the spirit of the Sacred Muse, Alis learned to improve her naturally ability to inspire others, as well as the monk's unique methods of self-defense and self-purification. (Bard/Monk)
4+: While it would take years and the friendship of other heroes of different faiths for Alis to truly come to terms with her own, as her adult life began to unfold, she became more committed to her path. Having been reaffirmed as a member of elvish royalty after her uncle's ousting, the young princess made up her mind to lead and rule not by fear, but by inspiring those around her to greatness. (Bard/Monk, but skill & feat choices now heavily tailored around rulership, aiding others, and group bonuses.)
The games is all about customization. From skills, to feats, to spells, you have to pick which ones you want.
I do both, depending on both concept (I may dip to grab an ability that I think really suit my character and I've no other means to emulate, such as a paladin dip for smite and detect evil) and mechanics (I may dip 3 level in fighter-weapon master to get weapon training and gloves of dueling).
I certainly do not dip into cleric because my character is becoming more religious, as I've seen other players doing.
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One of the strengths of the PF ruleset is the customization built into the system. While playing a single class is certainly a viable option for most characters, sometimes fate or circumstances lead to a character making a career change, as it were.
I can submit one of my favorite PCs in PF Lureene Ourson who started in a homebrew setting on Paizo and now finds herself traveling with Princess Alis in THIS game.
A brief history on her: She was born of a union between a Demoness Queen of the 79th layer of the Abyss and a powerful human wizard (an old PC of mine who was seduced by said queen for her own purposes). Her basic motivation has been to figure out a way to redeem her father (and herself) and remove her own demonic heritage. While she has made significant strides, only time will tell if she will be successful or not
Getting back to her class choices, she currently has a level of rogue in addition to her summoner, wizard, and bloodline levels. The reasoning for this is simple: She was forbidden to study the wizardly arts by her Mother, so she improvised, so to speak. The summoning ritual for her Eidolon was provided to her by an unknown benefactor. Once she escaped her Mother's prison, she became free to make her own choices in life, now reflected in her class progression. She wants to become a wizard like her father, because she believes this will be the best way to bring him redemption and also repudiate her own taint.
So this is a prime example where a character background and history, along with motivations can lead to interesting class combos and allows the customization options which are a strength of Pathfinder. I will say if you want to play a Purist character, there is nothing wrong with that and a good background can work fine with a Purist character. Just wanted to throw a different way of looking at it :)
I do whatever i need to fit my concept. If it can be done with a single class, i do it. However, if it needs more than one class to be what I want him to be, i'll dip without a 2nd thought. I dunno why it's a black and white thing for you. Consider me very happy in my gray area.
This sums my thoughts perfectly