Hi everyone.
As the title suggest i'mg going to build a 4th level DD Bard.
The intent is to support the group with both melee attack (using the scimitar) and magic (buffing and healing).
I was planning a build like this:
Str: 8
Dex: 18 (15 base +2 human +1 4th level)
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha; 14
The fact is that i'm not sure with feats will best fit the character.
I was thinking on getting improved initiative - dodge - mobility and then (at 6th) going for spring attack but i'm not sure if it would be effective or if it would be better raise strenght so that it would be possibile to get the Power Attack chain.
Thx in advance
Currently playing a bard that does melee/magic. At lv4, he had str14 and a +1 longsword. Arcane Strike and Power Attack.
After doing Inspire Courage, his attack was at: +6 (1d8+9)
Conversely, doing DD, which requires Finesse and DD, then leaving one slot open for Arcane Strike, you'd do +8 (1d6+5) if you have a +1 scimitar, and inspire courage going.
Currently (Lv6) I have +7 (1d8+14). The DD can get Piranha Strike and do +8 (1d6+11) at the same level. Slightly more to hit, slightly less damage, unless your GM allows DD to multiply the bonus damage from dex by using two hands on the scimitar, and you no longer get penalty from low str, in which case you match damage.
Dervish Dance is decent, but personally, I think it costs a little too much compared to the returns.
I'm referring to the Dawnflower Dervish from Inner Sea not to the Dervish Dancer of the Ultimate Combat.
Arcane strike is very nice (especially for DR) so i'll consider taking it.
At 4th level i'll do (with a scimitar +1 and inspire courage):
Roll: 4 (Dex) + 1 (Scimitar) + 2 (Insp. Cour) + 3 (Bab) = 10
Damage: 1 (Scimitar) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Insp. Cour) + 1 (Arc Str) = 8
Scimitar: +10 // 1d6 +8
At 6th level i'll do (with a scimitar +1 and inspire courage):
Roll: 4 (Dex) + 1 (Scimitar) + 4 (Insp. Cour) + 4 (Bab) = 13
Damage: 1 (Scimitar) + 4 (Dex) + 4 (Insp. Cour) + 2 (Arc Str) = 11
Scimitar: +13 // 1d6 +11
Going STR gave better damage output as you show above.
Piranha Strike is amazing but it requires light weapon so i think i'll have to exchange the scimitar with a shortsword with an agile enhancement on it to use that feat :(
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Yeah, Arcane Strike is a great feat for any bard who uses weapons.
Improved Critical would work well with a scimitar, but you can't take it until level 11. So I'd suggest getting a keen scimitar as soon as you can afford it.
Extra Performance would let you get the Inspire Courage bonus for more rounds per day, which would be helpful at lower levels. But since you're starting at level 4, you probably won't need that boost for long enough to bother with it.
Get Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike (pre-req feat, sadly), Crane Style, and Crane Wing.
Dervish Dance feat requires you to keep a hand free of weapon/shield, so you may as well use it for something. An alternative is the Flagbearer feat, if you don't feel odd holding a banner all the time. That would minorly buff the party.
Yeah, Arcane Strike is a great feat for any bard who uses weapons.
Improved Critical would work well with a scimitar, but you can't take it until level 11. So I'd suggest getting a keen scimitar as soon as you can afford it.
Sorry for the inexperience, but with arcane strike i can still use the enchant on the weapon i'm wielding or i've to choose between them?
Sorry for the inexperience, but with arcane strike i can still use the enchant on the weapon i'm wielding or i've to choose between them?Yeah, Arcane Strike is a great feat for any bard who uses weapons.
Improved Critical would work well with a scimitar, but you can't take it until level 11. So I'd suggest getting a keen scimitar as soon as you can afford it.
It's an "untyped" bonus, so it stacks with whatever other bonuses you have. A +1 weapon would give you +1 to hit, and the +1 to damage would stack with your arcane strike bonus to damage. Good stuff!
Just one more question :)
I was looking at the Dervish Dancer of the Ultimate Combat when i ask myself if with a bow it could be more effective than the Dawnflower one with the scimitar.
Dervish Dancer (Archetype)
Not all bards inspire others with their performances. Dervish dancers enter a near-mystical trance that allows them to push their bodies beyond normal limits.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dervish dancers gain weapon proficiency with the scimitar and kukri. This ability replaces their proficiency with the rapier and whip.
Battle Dance: A dervish dancer is trained in the use of the Perform skill, especially dance, to create magical effects on himself. This works like bardic performance, except the dervish dancer only affects himself, and does not need to be able to see or hear his own performance. Battle dancing is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, effects, and the like that affect bardic performance, except that battle dancing does not benefit from the Lingering Performance feat or any other ability that allows a bardic performance to grant bonuses after it has ended. Battle dancing benefits apply only when the bard is wearing light or no armor. Like bardic performance, it cannot be maintained at the same time as other performance abilities.
Starting a battle dance is a move action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing a battle dance from one effect to another requires the dervish dancer to stop the previous performance and start the new one as a move action. Like a bard, a dervish dancer's performance ends immediately if he is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action each round. A dervish dancer cannot perform more than one battle dance at a time. At 10th level, a dervish dancer can start a battle dance as a swift action instead of a move action.
Dervish dancers gain the inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, but these only provide benefit to the dervish dancer himself.
Rain of Blows (Su): At 6th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to speed up his attacks. When making a full attack action, he may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding, as though under the effects of a haste spell. He also gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and on Reflex saves. At 9th level, and every three bard levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 18th level. These bonuses do not stack with the haste spell. This ability replaces suggestion and mass suggestion.
Razor's Kiss (Su): At 8th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to improve his weapons' critical range. All attacks he makes with manufactured weapons are treated as though he had the Improved Critical feat. Natural weapons and spells are not affected. This ability replaces dirge of doom.
Leaf on the Wind (Su): At 14th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to evade attacks with unearthly grace and to shake off the effects of his wounds. Unlike other battle dances, leaf on the wind requires a standard action each round to start or maintain the performance. Each round it is maintained, including the first, the dervish dancer gains a +6 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. If wounded, he heals 1 hit point of damage per bard level. This ability replaces frightening performance.
Fleet (Su): While performing a battle dance, a dervish dancer gains a +10 enhancement bonus to his land speed. This bonus increases by 5 feet for every four bard levels gained after 1st level, to a maximum of +30 feet at 19th level. This ability replaces bardic knowledge and lore master.
Versatile Dance (Ex): At 2nd level, a dervish dancer gains a bonus equal to half his level on Perform (dance) checks. He can use his bonus for his Perform (dance) skill in place of his bonus for Acrobatics. This ability replaces versatile performance.
Dance of Fury (Su): At 12th level, a dervish dancer can attack more than once as he moves while performing a battle dance. He can combine a full-attack action with a single move, taking the attacks at any point during his movement, but must move at least 5 feet between each attack. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. This ability replaces soothing performance.
Battle Fury (Su): At 20th level, the dervish dancer can unleash a whirlwind of blows while performing a battle dance. As a full-round action, he can take a single move action and unleash a single attack at his highest bonus against each target within his reach during any point of his move, up to a maximum number of attacks equal to the dervish dancer's character level. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal, and replaces deadly performance.
Does his ability works when i use a bow (especially rain of blow and dance of fury)?
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Just one more question :)
I was looking at the Dervish Dancer of the Ultimate Combat when i ask myself if with a bow it could be more effective than the Dawnflower one with the scimitar.
** spoiler omitted **
Does his ability works when i use a bow (especially rain of blow and dance of fury)?
I don't see why not. None of the abilities specifically says melee weapons.
Dodge, imp unarmed strike, crane style, crane wing, crane riposte, and power attack if you ever bring your str up to 13.
*edit: sorry Stream, didn't see your post.
I also like Enforcer feat with Blade of Mercy trait.
And since this thread has been necro'd....
Crane Wing sucks now, it's not worth it, especially when you're actually paying all four feats for it on your own. Don't take it or any of its pre-reqs (well, Dodge for Osyluth Guile is still ok). Flagbearer is the only remaining decent option for your "can't have a weapon or shield" hand I'm aware of.
Snake Style is a decent replacement for Crane Wing if you really need to boost your defenses a bit. Note that Snake Style will eat your Swift Actions whenever you get attacked, so you probably won't get much mileage out of Arcane Strike.
Snake Style is a crutch and not worth it, especially to a bard -- wis is their dump stat.
In any case, DD Bard's defenses are fine at low levels (dex ~ 18 and chain shirt, possibly Dodge). Later on, they can get Osyluth Guile, too.
But in general, feats are better spent on offense and money on defense. +1 armor is 1000; +1 deflection is 2000; +1 natural armor is 2000; +1 insight AC (iuon stone) is 5000; +1 luck AC (+2 with fate's favored trait) is about 5000... You get the point. Tons of crap adds to AC and stack together, and as long as you diversify across items, you can get a lot of AC bang for your buck and avoid the exponential price increases of higher bonuses.
Meanwhile, feats for offense and defense tend to be priced more evenly (feat for +1 AC or feat for +1 to hit) and there's some real gems for offensive feats, like Enforcer.
Snake Style is a crutch and not worth it, especially to a bard -- wis is their dump stat.
Low Wisdom doesn't really matter if you take Sense Motive via Versatile Performance (Oratory or Sing).
I found that my DD bard was struggling to keep her AC up (~21 at level 7), though to be fair that was with a GM who turned out to be a fan of the "low-wealth campaign". Always fun to realize that your character is right on track in the WBL chart - if he was four levels lower than what he actually is. I relied heavily on Snake Style and Mirror Image to keep me alive.
In my opinion, if you have problems maintaining defenses as a DD bard, Snake Style is a viable option.