Either my search-fu is very weak, or no other threads exist on the topic. Which leads me to think that the answer to this question is already understood by most of the community, but I'll ask anyway.
If you take snap shot, does it not remove the need to take point blank mastery? If you threaten squares around you with a ranged weapon, do you still provoke when using it to attack? I suspect this is the case, since I can't find evidence of it having been asked before, but it seems silly to me to require two feats to threaten AND not provoke.
The description very specifically says you do not provoke with attacks of oppotunity made with the ranged weapon. Meaning that the AoO wouldn't provoke, but regular attacks would.
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You provoke for firing a ranged weapon from a threatened square.
Snap shot doesn't change the type of weapon away from ranged, therefor it still provokes attacks of opportunity (excluding the specific scenario mentioned in snap shot's text).
Sometimes your holy composite bow with bane arrows will kill the monster when a +1 battleaxe won't, so if you are going to take an attack to draw the axe, you should be able to use the weapon that will hurt it the most
I'm more concerned with the fact that you threaten those squares. If you threaten an enemy with a weapon, but using that weapon provokes an attack of opportunity from them, are you really 'threatening' them?
I'm scouring the combat section of the rules and I can't find anything that helps this make sense.
Let me present a scenario wherein my issue is made more apparent:
NPC "A" is unarmed and does not threaten PC "B" who is using a bow. "B" does not threaten "A," so "A" throws a punch without worry because "B" can't attack in return while using the bow. "B" suddenly gains snap shot. Now when "A" throws another punch, "B" can shoot him. "A" suddenly finds himself in possession of a knife; he is armed now. Both combatants threaten each other at this point.
"A" can attack normally with his dagger, and he doesn't provoke. "B" can't shoot at "A" anymore without provoking unless he moves or takes a 5 foot step. Then he's no longer "threatening" because "A" is outside of his threatened area.
This seems silly.
If you threaten an enemy with a weapon, but using that weapon provokes an attack of opportunity from them, are you really 'threatening' them?
Yes.
Threatened Squares: "You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn."
Snap Shot allows you to also threaten within 5' while wielding your ranged weapon.
When you use Snap Shot to take an attack of opportunity with your ranged weapon, you don't provoke.
I don't really follow your issue. The guy with Snap Shot standing adjacent to the guy with a dagger both threaten each other. If either of them do something that provokes, then they provoke. And if they do, the other one can take an attack of opportunity.
I guess I don't have any legitimate reason. I just don't like the way the hairs are split. One feat to prevent provoking, another to be able to attack those that do provoke...
I'm more concerned with the fact that you threaten those squares. If you threaten an enemy with a weapon, but using that weapon provokes an attack of opportunity from them, are you really 'threatening' them?
It's the same situation with the disarm maneuver -- I may threaten you with my sword, but that doesn't mean that I can disarm you without provoking an AoO.
Touche, hogarth. But bringing combat maneuvers up raises another sore point with me: there aren't any feats that allow you to perform combat maneuvers with ranged weapons outside of critical hits.
Lots of people say that ranged weapons are better than melee because they have more damage potential, but there's a decent list of things you just can't do with them, and the ones that there are options for require pretty hefty investments.
there aren't any feats that allow you to perform combat maneuvers with ranged weapons outside of critical hits.
It's not a feat, but the Archer fighter archetype grants that ability with Trick Shot (Ex).
I would like that if I didn't have to take levels of fighter to have that option. Why can't a ranger, or a samurai, or a zen archer have that ability?
Because they aren't dedicated archers like the class is. Zen archer is about being one with the bow and doing FoB with it. Zen archers are trained in the feel of the bow, and less in the flourishes that archers can do (i.e. Tricks). Most if moot all misery day zen archers don't even look at the target, they train their body to muscle memory to do the same shot nearly ever time. they know before the arrow leaves the knock point whether our not its a good shot.
Ranger archer is just using a bow, not a dedicated archer. Same for the magus archetype. Samurai were more for swords, not bows.
Only the fighter archer is 'dedicated' to the bow in all styles to be able to do combat maneuvers at range. (weapon matter is dedicated to one weapon only, but more from a "how can I unleash more power from this weapon" vs "how can I optimize this weapon to do the most utilization in combat". That's the fighter archer.
Zen Archers are so dedicated with the bow that vanilla Fighters can obtain Snap Shot before they get Reflexive Shot and can MUCH more easily obtain Improved Snap Shot (where the tactic really gets good). Since....they have the full BAB to meet that +9 sooner and the required feats (Snap Shot, Rapid Shot) aren't ENTIRELY FREAKING LITERALLY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORTHLESS! TO THEM.
*Ahem* Yeah. Rapid doesn't work w/ flurry, and Snap Shot is basically identical to the reflexive shot class feature. So a zen archer going for this build not only has to wait longer to get there, but also has to throw a bunch of his feats into the garbage. Literally, right into the garbage. A feat that gave you +1 to hit on one attack once/day would be more useful than those feats are to him.
/rant
Reflexive shot is not like snap shot at all. It is like point blank master. The two are different. One is for making ranged AoO attacks because you now threaten. The other is for using your ranged weapon in close combat.
Its like how people sometimes on here say how the seeking enhancement is an overlap with the improved precise shot feat. When actually the two don't overlap, they cover two aspects of firing from range. Cover-imp. Precise shot, concealment-seeking.
Now, the only reason I mentioned zen archer was because foghammer wanted to know why zen archers couldn't sunder or trip or bull rush like the fighter archer can. Reason is the zen archer us less about the matter of the now, which they would understand it as "you can't master the bow, you must understand it to strike true" and therefore put out a lot of attacks, just not special ones. Versus how the fighter archer is about skill, dedication, and effectiveness of the bow for combat. This dedication to combat prowess, since they are the fighter, is shown in their ability to do some, out of the box type shots, like disarming a for, or knocking the townsmen down so they don't get pincushioned, or knocking the bbeg over the cliff with bull rush.
Grizzly, they ARE the same.
Reflexive Shot: "At 9th level, a zen archer can make attacks of opportunity with arrows from his bow. The monk still threatens squares he could reach with unarmed strikes, and can still only make one attack of opportunity per round (unless he has Combat Reflexes)."
Snap Shot: "Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity."
Tell me one thing that Snap Shot is giving to a zen archer that Reflexive Shot is not. ONE THING. One thing to make it not a literal waste of a feat (like Rapid Shot is).
And Imp Precise Shot DOES overlap w/ Seeking. IPS negates cover and concealment, but not total cover or concealment. Seeking negates more concealment so there is some reason to have both, but there is still overlap. Reflexive Shot and Snap Shot are not like that.
Sorry, I swapped them. I'm meant to say that reflexive is not like point blank master.
As for snap shot, you need it to get imp. Snap shot. One thing.
point blank matter is better to have than snapshot. If you get into melee, your better not provoking enemies. If you get IMO snap shot then its better, but if its just pbm vs sharp shot, pbm is better I think. If its the snap shot tree then its good to have it, but you would still need pbm.
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Either my search-fu is very weak, or no other threads exist on the topic. Which leads me to think that the answer to this question is already understood by most of the community, but I'll ask anyway.
If you take snap shot, does it not remove the need to take point blank mastery? If you threaten squares around you with a ranged weapon, do you still provoke when using it to attack? I suspect this is the case, since I can't find evidence of it having been asked before, but it seems silly to me to require two feats to threaten AND not provoke.
No, Snap Shot and Point Blank Master actually do very different things, although some of the results appear similar.
Snap Shot: Ranged weapon threatens area around the archer, attacks of opportunity with the ranged weapon do not provoke.
Point Blank Master: Attacks with the ranged weapon do not provoke.
PBM does not cause the ranged weapon to threaten any more than it would normally.
SS does not allow you to take non-AoOs with the ranged weapon without provoking as normal.
There is a small overlap, if you have both, in that there are two reasons why your ranged AoOs do not provoke, but the overlap is insignificant, and less than that provided by Improved Precise Shot and the Seeking weapon quality.