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This is a backup toon to a ongoing campaign. 20 point build, 2 traits, 12th level with 100k in gear. Going to use craft wonderous to get more bang for the buck out of that 100k. Going to make a dex build with agile weapons. We use the d20pfsrd, so anything from there is a go.
Heres my build so far:
Human Beastmorph Vivisectionist 12
Str 7
Dex 26/32 with mutagen
Con 18/22 with mutagen
Int 18
Wis 12/10 with mutagen
Cha 7/5 with mutagen
As you can tell his obvious weaknesses will be ability drains, but im making a pure damage dealer and not worrying about that atm.
Feats:
Craft Wonderous
Brew Potion
Throw Anything
Weapon Finesse
Two Weapon Fighting
Imp. Two Weapon Fighting
Double Slice (house ruled for dex)
Piranah Strike
Extra Discovery
Gear:
x2 +1 Cold Iron Agile Daggers
+5 Celestial Armor
+5 Cloak of Resistance
+4 Belt Dex/Con
+4 Headband Int
Boots of Speed
Handy Haversack
Muleback Chords
Agile Amulet of Mighty Fist
My plan is to use alch allocation/amp elixur for heroism pot cl 12th, reduce person, haste, imp. invis/mutagen and go crazy with piranah strike backstabs.
Thoughts?
Aww man it cut half my post off..
Discovies:
Spontaneous Healing
Feral Mutagen
Preserve Organs
Infuse Mutagen
Crippling Attack
Mummification
Greater Mutagen
Skills: max ranks
acrobatics
craft alchy
craft wonderous
know arcana
know nature
perception
spellcraft
stealth
1/2 ranks
fly
appraise
So, the goal is to make others feel useless when it comes to damage, right?
Lol well the group is all playing opptimized toons and the dm maxs hp and bumps the encouters up so it balances.. My current toon is a pouncing barb with a 30str that crits for ard 130dam, so im doubtful this one will pull that much dpr.. Always wanted to play an alchemist though..
I don't like nuking str so low, at 7 you have trouble carrying much. Not sure how much muleback cords help with that.
That said, have you considered being a goblin? They get +4 dex, and mauling stuff to death a wittle bitty goblin would be fun...to me at least.
Im posting to ask if i should go another route with discoveries/feats etc... im kinda stuck on using weapons over nat attacks atm... just took the agile amulet for his feral bite attack.
Suggestions?
The chords will make his str for carrying stuff a 15, which is more than enough for what he has.. I agree though ill bet its ability damage that kills this one.. Should be fun as hell until that happens though.
Nice! I just started looking into vivisectionists but this seems really good.
Just thinking, why bother with making the daggers cold iron? Is this a specific campaign where you really need it?
What the hell is a toon?
Toon is a term referring to the avatar or representation of a charcter played in an MMO, from the word 'cartoon'.
It has leaked into the TTRPG vernacular.
Why do you have agile amulet of mighty fists AND agile daggers? I see no imp. unarmed strike, nor any Vestigial Arms discoveries to use the daggers and make your Feral Mutagen claw attacks. Spending 6k and a discovery on the bite alone seems steep to me. Have you considered getting vestigial arms, weilding the daggers in those hands for your iterative attacks, and then clawing with your original limbs and biting?
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What the hell is a toon?Toon is a term referring to the avatar or representation of a charcter played in an MMO, from the word 'cartoon'.
It has leaked into the TTRPG vernacular.
Ah. I guess I should discuss my pc's balanced moveset, high IVs and EV training. Perhaps I need to up my pc's type advantage moves with a good held item, or consider one to rid status effects. I can suggest a sandstorm team, with a stealth rock starter, and good physical and special wall, with at least one rapid spinner.
Yea were playing worlds largest dungeon and the atm its a demon party town everyday so cold iron or holy is a must.. I will also have many weapon oils on hand to take care of adamantite and silver dr... But yea the more i look at the build the more im liking it. Im pretty sure with said buffs above only he'll have 5 dagger attacks for
+23/+23/+23/+18/+13 for 1d3+19+6d6sneak+2str
and a bite for +24 1d6+18+6d6sneak+2str
and with beastmorph you get pounce, so full attacking will happen quite often. Even w/o buffs and just a mutagen your damage is still really nice.
He has craft wonderous so its only 2500 gp and yea its just for the bite, which can do an extra 42damage on average and an additional 2 str.
personally i think thats worth it for the discovery.
And i dont see the point in taking 2 vistigial discoveries just to make my irerative attacks that i can do with the daggers in my clawed hands and still get the same 5 attacks
Ah. I guess I should discuss my pc's balanced moveset, high IVs and EV training. Perhaps I need to up my pc's type advantage moves with a good held item, or consider one to rid status effects. I can suggest a sandstorm team, with a stealth rock starter, and good physical and special wall, with at least one rapid spinner.What the hell is a toon?Toon is a term referring to the avatar or representation of a charcter played in an MMO, from the word 'cartoon'.
It has leaked into the TTRPG vernacular.
Indeed you could.
And i dont see the point in taking 2 vistigial discoveries just to make my irerative attacks that i can do with the daggers in my clawed hands and still get the same 5 attacks
Instead of Dagger attacks + Bite, it'd be Dagger attacks + bite + claw + claw.
the vistigial arms dont give you extra attacks, u can just use them to hold stuff or make your normal attacks with. I looked into this at first as well because the sound of multiattacking 4 armed monster sounded cool, unfortunately they dont give u extra attacks... Kinda worthless imo..
Vestigial Arm (Ex): The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist's attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist's original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time). An alchemist may take this discovery up to two times.
So you dont have to look it up again!
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On my phone at the moment, but search for James Jacobs' (who is the creator of the class) comments on how calling them extracts is just flavour. Alchemists also quaify for Improved Familiar with Tumour Familiar and may use Pearls of Power.
Also, in before "James Jacobs isn't the boss of me hurr durr!"
the vistigial arms dont give you extra attacks, u can just use them to hold stuff or make your normal attacks with. I looked into this at first as well because the sound of multiattacking 4 armed monster sounded cool, unfortunately they dont give u extra attacks... Kinda worthless imo..
They're not giving you extra attacks. You're using them to take your normal iterative attacks. You just also happen to have 2 other hands with claws on them to take 2ndary natural attacks with. The vestigial arms did not give you any more attacks than you would normally be entitled. You can obviously TWF, and you're allowed to take any natural attacks you have at the end of a full attack, as secondary natural attacks. There's just a restriction from using the same hand for both weapon and natural attacks in the same full attack. Vestigial Arms is allowing you to utilize all the attacks you're entitled to by not having your weapons in the claw hands. It'd be no different than TWF w/ unarmed strikes (kicks, say) and armor spikes, and then adding the claw attacks to the end of it.
RAW, it works just fine. At no point are they giving you more attacks than you potentially had already. That would be if you tried to claim Feral Mutagen + Vestigial Arms = 4 claw attacks and a bite. That would be incorrect.
I throw in the towel
You are right:
Source
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I throw in the towel
You are right:
Source
Well I wasn't trying to be rude in my earlier posts, it's just really hard to type and quote stuff on a tiny phone's keyboard. I'm glad you found the entry though.
No hard feelings? :(
Definitely not. On the contrary, I had this discussion several times and I'm grateful to have now a source in favour of my original opinion.
You can even add Mindchemist to that, though I'm not sure it'd be a good idea (feral mutagen and beastmorph should still work w/ cognatogen by RAW, at least...).
Well if there not giving me anymore attacks than i would have normally then why would i burn 2 discoveries for the extra arms...
Now if your telling me i could take my four dagger attacks with the vestigial arms and then 2 claws and a bite attack then obv. i would go for it... I dont read it that way though..
Ok that makes sense, but i would not spend 2 discoveries to do the same thing as i could normally except as -2damage and -1crit range...
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Boot blades makes you treat all terrain as difficult terrain. So they suck that way.
If you have a race with claws, and then take the vestigial limbs discovery, when you use your mutagen to gain claws, it can be on the limbs that do not have claws. This would give you four claws that you can attack with in one round.
Races with claws: Changeling, and Tiefling(alternate).
and now Catfolk from ARG.
Well if there not giving me anymore attacks than i would have normally then why would i burn 2 discoveries for the extra arms...
Yep, you get no more attacks. Period. But you can hold a shield and two weapons. Or potions ready to quaff. Or a extra weapon in case your main weapons are not the right material for DR or get sundered, etc. It's possible that you might be able to use one two-handed weapon and a one handed weapon, but that's doubtful.
A Discovery should never be more powerful than a feat, think of it that way.
I jumped into a similar thread a little while ago, where someone was making a BM/Viv Alchemist with Vestigial Arms. Their build relied on taking Multi-Weapon Fighting and getting 2 extra attacks from the extra arms.
I said that went against the description of the Discovery, and was shot town by half a dozen people.
Apparently it's not Vestigial Arms giving you the extra attacks... it's the Multi-Weapon Fighting feat? Which you now qualify for because you have 4 arms?
Meh... I still think that's kind of a cheesy interpretation, but whatever.
Multi-weapon or not- you get NO more attacks. Period.
Multi-weapon or not- you get NO more attacks. Period.
TWF with unarmed strikes + claw + claw + bite = legal.
TWF with short sword in each vestigial hand + claw + claw + bite = legal.
You're not getting any more attacks than you had. You're freeing up your hands to use other weapons than unarmed strike or armor spikes without losing the claw attacks.
No extra attacks were gained.
And the Devs have said that "no extra attacks" means just that. I mean it sez "No extra attacks", it's very clear.