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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
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I've been scouring the forums for an answer to this question: Do Synthesist Summoner's Eidolons really get to choose a base form. I've emailed customer service and they gave me a pretty crappy response. I was looking for an official answer seeing as how the rules are very vague.
And finally the Question: Does a Synthesist's eidolon get to choose a base form and get the stats for it? The wording of the text implies that it does not, but people act as if it does.
There is nothing restricting you from having a quadruped eidolon as a synthesist but you cant cast spells with somatic components if you do.
(Unless you take the LImbs(Arms)Evolution.)
More information here
Yes, you get to choose your base form at character creation.
Yes, you use that forms physical stats and movement.
If that is true, then after leveling one up to 20, and comparing it with a 19 fighter using the advanced template. This shows me that whoever created this archetype is in fact a noob.
Let's break it down:
First Paragraph: A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. The synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor. The eidolon mimics all of the synthesist’s movements, and the synthesist perceives through the eidolon’s senses and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature.
This paragraph relays the information that the Eidolon is being worn like armor. In order for the statements in this paragraph to be true, you cannot choose the quadruped or the aquatic forms. Choosing these forms would make this paragraph false.
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is killed and sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks. The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist. The eidolon must have limbs for the synthesist to cast spells with somatic components. The eidolon’s temporary hit points can be restored with the rejuvenate eidolon spell.
2nd Paragraph: Synthesist Gains the STR, DEX, and CON while retaining his INT, WIS, CHA. Also, He gains the AC, and Natural armor, and temp HP. "The Eidolon must have limbs in order to cast spells with somatic components." If that was necessary to be said there's only 2 possibilities: A} You can select a base form or B) You do not get to select a base form.
Because Option A would make the first paragraph false, it cannot be so. That only leaves Option B.
While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor. He counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist. Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected. Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature. The synthesist and eidolon cannot take separate actions. While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor. In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability (for example, the synthesist cannot use his summon monster ability while the eidolon is present).
Third Paragraph: Pretty Self Explanitory.
This ability replaces the class’s eidolon ability, bond senses, and life bond.
Now this is the part that tells 90% of the people they are playing their character wrong an allows it to be changed:
Eidolon Ability
A summoner begins play with the ability to summon to his side a powerful outsider called an eidolon. The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature. An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it and can speak all of his languages. Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score. In addition, due to its tie to its summoner, an eidolon can touch and attack creatures warded by protection from evil and similar effects that prevent contact with summoned creatures.
A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform. When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was dismissed or banished. The only exception to this is if the eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit points. The eidolon does not heal naturally. The eidolon remains until dismissed by the summoner (a standard action). If the eidolon is sent back to its home plane due to death, it cannot be summoned again until the following day. The eidolon cannot be sent back to its home plane by means of dispel magic, but spells such as dismissal and banishment work normally. If the summoner is unconscious, asleep, or killed, his eidolon is immediately banished. The eidolon takes a form shaped by the summoner’s desires. The eidolon’s Hit Dice, saving throws, skills, feats, and abilities are tied to the summoner’s class level and increase as the summoner gains levels. In addition, each eidolon receives a pool of evolution points, based on the summoner’s class level, that can be used to give the eidolon different abilities and powers. Whenever the summoner gains a level, he must decide how these points are spent, and they are set until he gains another level of summoner.
The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature. This control is not fine enough to make the eidolon appear like a specific creature. The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned. While this rune can be hidden through mundane means, it cannot be concealed through magic that changes appearance, such as alter self or polymorph (although invisibility does conceal it as long as the spell lasts).
So I answered my own question with the last part: You LOSE the eidolon ability and instead is replaced by eidolon armor if you will. This really balances out synthesist summoners because he can use evolution points to strengthen himself.
You can choose whatever form you wish. It's been stated in the main Synthesist thread this is the case. You just have to have a form with hands to cast spells.
Rocky Williams 530 wrote: You can choose whatever form you wish. It's been stated in the main Synthesist thread this is the case. You just have to have a form with hands to cast spells. its been stated both ways in the main thread. But nothing has been officially ruled yet, leaving to the last post about the class. And that reads that you LOSE the Eidolon ability and GAIN the Fused Eidolon ability. The Fused eidolon ability does not state that you get the base form. You are its base form because you two are 1 creature, not 2. A good example is Eidolon Brood ability from the Broodmaster archetype. where it states that they get their own form.
How do you reconcile this statement with the viewpoint that they don't get a base form?
"Split Forms (Su): At 16th level, as a swift action, the synthesist and his fused eidolon can split into two creatures: the synthesist and the eidolon. Both have the same evolutions. The synthesist emerges in a square adjacent to the eidolon if possible. All effects and spells currently targeting the fused synthesist-eidolon affect both the synthesist and the eidolon."
I am also failing to follow the logic of "Because Option A would make the first paragraph false, it cannot be so"
Unless I am vastly missing something... in order to "Synthesist Gains the STR, DEX, and CON while retaining his INT, WIS, CHA" the eidolon would need to have all of these stats.
These stats are outlined in the base forms section.
More importantly.. from the FAQ makes it clear that synthesist have base forms (see bold below)
"Summoner: Can a synthesist (page 80) make attacks from his own body (such as manufactured weapons, unarmed strikes, or natural attacks) and attacks from the fused eidolon in the same round?
Yes, but the fused character's natural attacks are still subject to the Maximum Attacks entry in the table for an eidolon of his level. For example, a 1st-level synthesist is limited to 3 natural attacks per round, whether those natural attacks are from the eidolon, the synthesist, or a combination of the two.
If the synthesist wants to use his eidolon's natural attacks and use his own manufactured weapons or natural weapons in the same round, his eidolon needs to have enough limbs to account for all of these attacks. For example, a gnome synthesist fused with a two-armed biped eidolon has two arms it can use to make attacks; if the synthesist wants to make claw attacks with his eidolon's claws and also make weapon attacks (such as with a dagger or staff), he needs to give his eidolon additional arms evolutions to hold those weapons (as an extension of the summoner's own limbs)--a two-armed eidolon can't make two claw attacks and also make a dagger attack or staff attack in the same round.
Remember that the synthesist is still subject to the rules of combining manufactured weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks in the same round (in that the natural weapons are always considered secondary and therefore have a -5 attack penalty).
Remember also that the summoner is wearing the eidolon like a biological, all-encompassing "suit," and the eidolon's shape limits what the summoner can do. If the eidolon doesn't have arms, the summoner can't use his own arms to manipulate objects, make attacks, cast somatic spells, or anything else requiring arms--while fused, the summoner's limbs are trapped within the armless eidolon-suit, and he isn't able to use them to manipulate things. The summoner isn't able to extend his own body parts outside of the eidolon-suit; if he wants to be able to manipulate things with arms, the eidolon needs arms (though tentacles are sufficient for simple tasks).
(Note: It is a matter of flavor and player's preference whether the synthesist floats immobile within the eidolon-suit and its limbs move at his mental command, if the synthesist moves his own arms and the eidolon-suit's arms echo this movement, or if the eidolon-suit is more form-fitting and the flesh-enveloping limbs move in direct response to the synthesist's own movements.)
Note: This clarifies an earlier FAQ error where the summoner's weapon attacks counted toward the number of attacks on the table.
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/02/11"
The Fused Eidolon class feature is exactly the same as the Eidolon class feature except where explicitly different. It even counts as the Eidolon class feature when qualifying for feats.
For a reference, look here. It is a very nice post by SKR that explains the reasons behind the logic instead of just saying "make it so."
That post has some logic, but it doesn't cover the fact that When something has something similar, but describes the differences, then decide to make it replace the ability. Logic there means that its difference. Removing the Eidolon ability actually makes the summoner unable to summon an eidolon. Describing the Fused Eidolon ability in its entirety which as an ability to replace eidolon abilities, but still using the evolution points and the eidolon chart makes the entirety of the eidolon ability gone. Unless in the entirety of the description states that it receives a base form, it does not.
By the logic you are using, a Monk of the 4 winds can do its fire damage and stun the target for 1 round at the same time. Any class that takes an archtype also gets the core abilities even if it states otherwise.
MC Templar wrote: How do you reconcile this statement with the viewpoint that they don't get a base form?
"Split Forms (Su): At 16th level, as a swift action, the synthesist and his fused eidolon can split into two creatures: the synthesist and the eidolon. Both have the same evolutions. The synthesist emerges in a square adjacent to the eidolon if possible. All effects and spells currently targeting the fused synthesist-eidolon affect both the synthesist and the eidolon."
At 16th level, as a swift action, the synthesist and his fused eidolon can split into two creatures: the synthesist and the eidolon. Both have the same evolutions. The synthesist emerges in a square adjacent to the eidolon if possible. All effects and spells currently targeting the fused synthesist-eidolon affect both the synthesist and the eidolon.
The synthesist can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to his summoner level. He can end this effect at any time as a full-round action. For the duration of this effect, the eidolon functions as a normal eidolon of the summoner’s class level.
The way it reads, you basically create a clone of yourself but one of them is you and the other is your eidolon.
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MC Templar wrote: I am also failing to follow the logic of "Because Option A would make the first paragraph false, it cannot be so"
Unless I am vastly missing something... in order to "Synthesist Gains the STR, DEX, and CON while retaining his INT, WIS, CHA" the eidolon would need to have all of these stats.
These stats are outlined in the base forms section.
More importantly.. from the FAQ makes it clear that synthesist have base forms (see bold below)
"Summoner: Can a synthesist (page 80) make attacks from his own body (such as manufactured weapons, unarmed strikes, or natural attacks) and attacks from the fused eidolon in the same round?
Yes, but the fused character's natural attacks are still subject to the Maximum Attacks entry in the table for an eidolon of his level. For example, a 1st-level synthesist is limited to 3 natural attacks per round, whether those natural attacks are from the eidolon, the synthesist, or a combination of the two.
If the synthesist wants to use his eidolon's natural attacks and use his own manufactured weapons or natural weapons in the same round, his eidolon needs to have enough limbs to account for all of these attacks. For example, a gnome synthesist fused with a two-armed biped eidolon has two arms it can use to make attacks; if the synthesist wants to make claw attacks with his eidolon's claws and also make weapon attacks (such as with a dagger or staff), he needs to give his eidolon additional arms evolutions to hold those weapons (as an extension of the summoner's own limbs)--a two-armed eidolon can't make two claw attacks and also make a dagger attack or staff attack in the same round.
Remember that the synthesist is still subject to the rules of combining manufactured weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks in the same round (in that the natural weapons are always considered secondary and therefore have a -5 attack penalty).
Remember also that the summoner is wearing the eidolon like a biological, all-encompassing "suit," and the eidolon's shape limits what...
That may be the problem right there. You are not using an unofficial answer. According to the book up to the new revision: Rather than summon an eidolon to serve by his side, the
synthesist fuses his eidolon’s essence to his own. Instead of
two creatures, the synthesist is a fusion of the summoner
and eidolon into a single being.
You CANNOT have 2 base forms. Your character is the form in which the eidolon attaches itself to. What makes this harder to explain is that you got munchkins flooding the message boards trying to create some overpowered being when if you look at the actual released stuff out there, it can be quite powerful. You do not have the eidolon ability for the exception of what is stated in it's class.
Here's a quick sheet using a level 10 at the 16,14,13,12,11,10 build.
I'm just going to used fused. Stat focuses for the synthesist is cha while using the biped stats on the fused Eidolon. This is base stats with nothing else
HP: 54(48 temp)(104 total)
AC: 30=10 + 4 Dex + 16 Natural
STR: 28+9
DEX: 18+4
CON: 13+1
INT: 13+1
WIS: 14+2
CHA: 20+5
Evolutions:
nat attacks allowed 5
legs
claws
limbs
+2 str
+2 str
+2 dex
+2 ac
+2 ac
+2 ac
Imp Damage Claws
Limbs
claws
bite
BAB +8
Attack Bonus: +8/+3
Melee attack bonus: +17/+13
Full Attack: claws (1d6+9 x2)x4 bite (1d6+9 x2)
+17/+15/+15/+15/+15/+11
Fort: +6
Ref: +5
Will: +11
CMB: +17
CMD: 31/27 FF
Heres the same build but how it reads in the book:
HP: 54(40 temp)(94 total)
AC: 26=10 + 2 Dex + 14 Natural
STR: 22+6
DEX: 14+2
CON: 13+1
INT: 13+1
WIS: 14+2
CHA: 20+5
Evolutions:
nat attacks allowed 5
Limbs
Claws
+2 str
+2 str
+2 ac
+2 ac
Imp Damage Claws
Limbs
claws
bite
BAB +8
Attack Bonus: +8/+3
Melee attack bonus: +14/+9
Full Attack: claws (1d6+9 x2)x4 bite (1d6+9 x2)
+14/+12/+12/+12/+12/+7
Fort: +6
Ref: +5
Will: +11
CMB: +14
CMD: 28/24 FF
Which one really looks more reasonable?
Diasent wrote: You CANNOT have 2 base forms. Your character is the form in which the eidolon attaches itself to. What makes this harder to explain is that you got munchkins flooding the message boards trying to create some overpowered being when if you look at the actual released stuff out there, it can be quite powerful. You do not have the eidolon ability for the exception of what is stated in it's class. You do not have two base forms.... You have you your character "Your character {clip} which the eidolon attaches itself to." And "Biped form eidolon" which is the Base form for your stats.
I am struggling to see how the Character is a "Base Form" based on the rules, the description clearly states the Str Dex and Con of the eidolon replace that of the summoner, which makes no sense under your interpretation.
Also, how is the FAQ/Updates tab of the Book's entry on Paizo's sales page an "unofficial answer"
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8k8r?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Ultimate-Mag ic
Diasent wrote: That post has some logic, but it doesn't cover the fact that When something has something similar, but describes the differences, then decide to make it replace the ability. Logic there means that its difference. SKR wrote: And if for some reason two things that seem almost the same (like "channel energy" vs. "channel" vs. "channel positive energy") shouldn't act exactly the same, count on us to tell you how it is different. The Fused Eidolon explicitly lists how it differs from the Eidolon ability. Base form selection is not talked about, thus it is unchanged.
SKR wrote: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. If you line up Daffy Duck, Donald Duck, Duckman, and Howard the Duck, from a game standpoint it makes sense that a +1 duck-bane arrow is going to do +2d6 damage in addition to normal arrow damage if you shoot any of them, because they're all ducks. And if you shot that arrow at "Duckie" from Pretty in Pink, it wouldn't get any bonus damage, because he isn't a duck. And you should be able to see why those first four are ducks and the last one isn't. Does it use eidolon rules? Does it follow eidolon progression? Is it affected by spells that target Eidolons?
Yes, to all of these. It is an eidolon and eidolons come with a base form unless explicitly told otherwise. We are not told otherwise for one simple reason: there is no need to restate the basic rules for building an eidolon. Only the changes are defined.
Diasent wrote: By the logic you are using, a Monk of the 4 winds can do its fire damage and stun the target for 1 round at the same time. Any class that takes an archtype also gets the core abilities even if it states otherwise. No, I am stating that a all abilities of an archetype are received unless the archetype explicitly states otherwise. In the case of the Synthesist, an eidolon is still received.
Compare: the synthesist as a summoner with a long duration Merge Forms ability.
And: A summoner as a Synthesist with a long duration Split Forms
SKR wrote: First, let me give a bit of background. Back when I was at Wizards, at the start of 3E I worked with Jonathan Tweet on a bunch of advice columns, including an article called "How to Design a Feat." One of the concepts we established was "things should be the same, or they should be different." (And by "different" I mean "very different" so you don't mix up the two.) That concept helps players remember different rules--if rule X is already in the game, and you're creating new rule Y that works a lot like X, you should either (1) make Y work EXACTLY like X, or make Y work differently than X. That way, players can remember that Y works like X, or not accidentally confuse how Y and X work. And if Y feels a lot like X, it's almost certainly supposed to work like X, and things that attach to X should be able to attach to Y.
does it use Eidolon rules? no. Does it use Eidolon Progression, yes. So basically if it walks like a duck and moos like a cow, it's definately not a duck. Eidolon gets feats, Synthesist Eidolons don't. Eidolons have a movespeed, SE don't. Merge forms puts the summoner inside the eidolon, and when hes banished to his home plane, the summoner takes 4d6 damage. Synthesist Eidolons are not a separate creature in itself, and when banished, it just vanishes without the damage. The thing you are missing is that the synthesist's Eidolon is completely reworked but still using some of the tables. A cleric of gozreh walks like a druid, and talks like a druid, but is a cleric of gozreh.
Diasent wrote: First Paragraph: [snip]
This paragraph relays the information that the Eidolon is being worn like armor. In order for the statements in this paragraph to be true, you cannot choose the quadruped or the aquatic forms. Choosing these forms would make this paragraph false.
You're making an assumption that you couldn't wear a quadruped or aquatic (or serpentine) eidolon as armor.
This assumption is baseless.
If I have a giant ectoplasmic snake and I float around inside of it, I'm wearing it like translucent, living armor. Sure, I can't use my arms to do anything, but I can crawl around and bite people or whatever.
Diasent wrote: "The Eidolon must have limbs in order to cast spells with somatic components." If that was necessary to be said there's only 2 possibilities: A} You can select a base form or B) You do not get to select a base form.
Because Option A would make the first paragraph false, it cannot be so. That only leaves Option B.
Bipedal eidolons have limbs. If all synthesists were required to use the bipedal base form, that line would be meaningless, because it would be impossible for a synthesist to not have limbs. The existence of that rule proves that there must be a way to have an eidolon without limbs. The only way to have an eidolon without limbs is to choose the aquatic or serpentine base form.
Diasent wrote: This ability replaces the class’s eidolon ability, bond senses, and life bond.
Now this is the part that tells 90% of the people they are playing their character wrong an allows it to be changed
So you're saying that by replacing the "Eidolon" class feature with the "Fused Eidolon" class feature, that any eidolon-related mechanics do not apply unless specified under the Fused Eidolon class feature?
Which would mean there is no base form.
Which would mean the eidolon has no physical statistics.
Which would mean that when wearing the eidolon, the synthesist has no strength, dexterity, or constitution score.
Is that really more reasonable than the assumption that when an archetype modifies an existing class ability, it uses the same rules for that class ability except when specified otherwise?
In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability
so this line, the last line of the Fused Eidolon paragraph, is also ignored by diascents logic.
because when i read it, "all other cases" covers all other aspects of the eidolon, "the summoner’s normal eidolon ability" why mention that wording if you ignore the base eidolon class feature.
that wording is the same on the d20pfsrd, and the paizo prd. The ultimate magic books and the c urrent errata's.
nothing alters that wording.
which means the base form of the eidolon, which is in the category of ALL OTHER CASES.
I dont see the issue that diasent has
Synthesist wrote: In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability
This seems to be the part of the ability the OP missed. But that's ok, I missed it at first too. And I was REALLY confused about how to summon the thing.
Davick wrote: Synthesist wrote: In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability
This seems to be the part of the ability the OP missed. But that's ok, I missed it at first too. And I was REALLY confused about how to summon the thing. Just in case anybody else missed it (and I mean this in a spirit of helpfulness):
blahpers wrote: Davick wrote: Synthesist wrote: In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability
This seems to be the part of the ability the OP missed. But that's ok, I missed it at first too. And I was REALLY confused about how to summon the thing. Just in case anybody else missed it (and I mean this in a spirit of helpfulness):
** spoiler omitted ** We have a winner!
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Basically, I don't see how you could go without a base form. Your fused statistics are based on the eidolon's base form. Without a base form, you have no basis for determining your fused ability scores. How would the fused eidolon ability basically function if you cannot determine your new base ability scores?
Your assertion is basically flawed, so give up already; you didn't even make first base. All your base are belong to us.
:P
You know what's funny about this post? Is that your Eidolon doesn't even have a form according to the book. In order for the eidolon to have a form, it has to be a creature. Because it melds with your essence, it is enhancing you. This is a case that it addresses and it is removed from the all other cases.
A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. The synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor. The eidolon mimics all of the synthesist’s movements, and the synthesist perceives through the eidolon’s senses and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature.
see? addressed.
If you want to flag this to FAQ, I encourage it. That way we know a real answer.
Basic rules for eidolons.
RAW wrote: An eidolon’s abilities are determined by the summoner’s level and by the choices made using its evolution pool. Table: Eidolon Base Statistics determines many of the base statistics of the eidolon. Each eidolon possesses a base form that modifies these base statistics. Eidolons are outsiders for the purpose of determining which spells affect them. Basic eidolon rules; all eidolons have a base form.
Diasent: If you try hard enough to break the rules, they will break. Any set of rules in all of RPG history can be parsed minutely and pedantically enough to make it meaningless or even opposite in meaning. This isn't even limited to RPG texts; it happens in sports, government, religion, you name it. In the context of Pathfinder: does doing so increase your level of fun while playing the game (or that of your fellow players)? If not, take a step back.
There comes a point at which rules analysis becomes rules overanalysis. Sometimes, it is difficult to find the point at which a question becomes prima facie ridiculous. As a general (but not universal) rule, when you start making epiphanic statements about how entire class features don't actually exist, it's usually a good indicator that you have blown way past that point, taken a hard charm turn, and plunged headlong into another dimension.
The fact is, the summoner class, as designed, does not make sense--indeed, is not playable--without a base form. Similarly, the synthesist class, as designed, does not make sense--indeed, is not playable--without a base form. Therefore, no matter how clever it may seem, there is no point in interpreting them in such a manner. This isn't a video game where hunting for glitches can reward the player with free XP exploits, infinite ammo, or l33t ch33v0z. Breaking Pathfinder just leaves you with a broken game.
i read half of diasents posts and all i have to say is DUDE you are reading to much into things. you are coming to conclusions unfounded in the text. gaining the fused state you gain all the eidolons base evolution's. don't even worry about base form the base form is just the included evolution's that you cannot change.
My head hurts. I really cant follow some of this. wish I would remember what this thread is and not come back.
Is anyone else flashing back to 'Timecube'?
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this whole discussion stems from my rpg game in infrno.net where a player considered, regressing his character from a legion archon, to an advanced lantern archon (i allowed monsters in beginning game book 1, of Serpent's skull) with levels in synthesist summoner. now aside from the berating nature of diasent and flowery angry passages about how peoples personal lives suck in a private skype call.
he has argued the points of conjecture over the 'base form' of the eidolon for the past week now.
I refuse, all of you obviously refuse, to see it his way.
While yes the synthesist is a power house hybrid class, and yes you can with minor usage of the character, no magic items and a good dexterity pull off a hi 20's ac by lvl 4 in the class. Play testing of the class went out before it was printed. What sort of play testing? Well I have heard stories from authors of PF. Such as, hey a room of munchkins, break the game show us whats wrong then we'll fix it. Sums up the jist of the story.
so while I dont have a PHD in trolling out insults to others' intelligences, jobs, and ability to write games. I do however know that there are cardinal rules in gaming. The gm has the right to change the game as he sees fit. The gm can throw out any rule that gets in the way of having fun. But as long as the GM stays consistent with their decisions with conviction of their house rules no player should really complain all that much.
so yeah an advanced lantern archon needs the other PCs to go up 3 levels before it can advance 1, but just that one time (CR 3).
and a legion archon must wait a lot longer.
This whole argument is, as it seems to me. That Diasent cant accept someone with a lower GPA than his own being right about anything.
And that any player (regardless if able to do so or not) should not build a character using the full extent of the RAW in their favor.
I removed some posts and the replies to it.
Don't be a jerk. Also, flag it and move on.
wow... been a while since i checked this. OK, Synthesist class is broken. So be it. But Evan, the issue I have with you is that you tend to favor a player you've been friends with for over twenty years. You strive to find a way to give him a one-up over other players. And there is no rule that says that a fused eidolon doesn't benefit from bracers of dex. You lose the benefits of your armor, not magic items. When you fuse into 1 creature, the magic item affects him as well.
oh... a campaign author isn't a master at the game, they are just an excellent story teller...
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i never said anything about a bracer of dexterity. the player in question was throwing ideas out then he caught hell from you, he never said he was commiting to playing it. its not a competition, i defended the player because another playyer was unjustly accusing him of being op. and he wasnt, its got nothing to do with favortisms, because i dont use it, i screw over each player equally. as for his arkon, i wasnt grasping their methods, and because you refused to allow me to figure it out in my own way and consistently bicker it the status we are presently at has developed.
when i say things like i dont care about blah, its because i really dont care what another player thinks about how i run my games. am i going to find something balanced, am i going to discuss the matter with X player, sure is it any other players' need to know about what decision the dm comes up with. NO. as long as he is fair to the situation and consistent with his rules.
sure i dont always start my players out on the exact same equal footing, because i am trying to stay consistent to region, story, and a progressed timeline of game. The rules and the story make it fun and balanced to me, not just the rules and not just the story but both together.
honestly if i was in your game, its your rules. PERIOD. if ross byers is running a game its his rules PERIOD. in my game, its my rules PERIOD.
thats how i feel about the game. I am only speaking about how i feel a DM should be.
So kibitz about your complaints all you like in the overall scheme of how the game shiould be in your big one opinion. Ill do it my way, someone else will do it their way.
I really dont give a hoot about your opinion or the others' opinion, and you shouldnt care about mine.
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