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I play Pbp, and consequently find it very flavorful to integrate more of those 'languages known' into my characters' speech patterns. I keep Etymonline and Google Translate bookmarked, then throw a few phrases out with translations in spoilers, footnotes or tooltips. Not overmany of course, as it could get annoying very quickly...but the obvious curses, exclamations, etc. Halfling culinary terms I might put in Old French or Irish, Dwarfish curses are always Scotch Gaelic, etc.
These worlds we play in, and the characters we play, are seem to be so much more tongue-tied than we are. Racial languages clashing with national languages, all in turn washed over in Common, because otherwise things might get very sticky indeed.
My query is this : Which languages (and consequently, cultures) do you associate with our much-beloved Golarian provinces? Would French suit Varisia better than Irish? Is a German or a Scandanavian dialect better for Ulfen than, say, something Russian or Slavic? Would it be odd to consider Mandarin and Japanese as merely different dialects of Tian Xia?
I use Romanian for activation words and flavor phrases for post-Whispering Tyrant Ustalav in my Carrion Crown game.
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Which languages do you use for infernal/celestial/etc?
I must now research! To the wiki!
On a side note: I just recently discovered Golarion and I don't know much about it yet, but I'm an interpreter by IRL trade and I adore this concept! I'm so stealing this for my characters! Unfortunately I'll need to practise the vocabulary because I interpret American sign language and there is no equivalent (that I've seen) for that in dnd. Instead the deaf learn to "lip-read" with a rank of linguistics.
*will save vs soap box on deafness and visual language rant*
Anyway, thanks for making my characters much more colorful. :)
There are a few feats and odd hand-languages...granted, not many, but they're there. The Drow, I believe, have a hand-signal language...oh, and there's that Secret Signs feat. You could probably play on that and a deaf oracle...or a special epic council of deaf oracles...for some campaign or other. I'd be interested, at least. :P
As for infernal/celestial, only the one has come up - and I believe I settled on a sort of old Greek for celestial. By a similar token, I suppose straight Latin could be decently infernal, if a bit common. Abyssal, as I recall, I once wrote as tonal screeching. Which one is the lawful one again, though, cause those Evil languages might be backwards...?
I use Sanskrit.
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There are a few feats and odd hand-languages...granted, not many, but they're there. The Drow, I believe, have a hand-signal language...oh, and there's that Secret Signs feat. You could probably play on that and a deaf oracle...or a special epic council of deaf oracles...for some campaign or other. I'd be interested, at least. :P
As for infernal/celestial, only the one has come up - and I believe I settled on a sort of old Greek for celestial. By a similar token, I suppose straight Latin could be decently infernal, if a bit common. Abyssal, as I recall, I once wrote as tonal screeching. Which one is the lawful one again, though, cause those Evil languages might be backwards...?
Yes, I see how you could re-skin secret signs to be sign language. I had never seen that feat. Drow sign would depend greatly on how greatly it tried to follow spoken Drow in form and syntax. I imagine it as very abbreviated and lacking the spoken connective grammar, as is common among visual languages. Most of the time that non conceptual stuff ends up in your expressions. Then again drow sign is described as one- handed with almost no reliance on body language or facial grammar markers. Let's just say I want to see it in action. :)
Celestial is described as sharing characteristics with druidic and draconic. I think I'd make that one Latin (personal opinion).
You don't have infernal and abyssal mixed up. Abyssal is chaotic, infernal is from lawfully aligned hell. I remember that infernal was described on the wiki as having many homophones and being difficult to understand and learn because of that.
Anyone want to post their list(s) to share with the class?
Gladly. As soon as I can make/ borrow / iterate on one. :)
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human languages in galorion . You can probably extrapolate the current languages from the earlier ones mentioned. I'll look at this further tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
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non-human languages. Some of these could be replicated as well due to included descriptions. Others, not so much.
That's it from me tonight. I have work tomorrow and I really should be asleep. Someone has kindled a passion in me, it seems. :P
I find this one useful...though I was never particularly intending to account for all of the languages at the same time. I would certainly be interested to see what you come up with, but it's rarely necessary in a single campaign - as a general rule, no more than a dozen seem to show up with any regularity. I've used Irish, for example, for a hillfolk halfling (in 3.5) and then again for a dwarf in a different campaign. Latin gets bumped all over the place, as well.
Oh, and I forgot to mention Elvish - as in, Tolkien. There are a few translators and such out there, and I'd like to learn more about his linguistics in general. The man didn't craft an entire racial language (with attendant dialects and histories) for nothing!
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I agree, but you've stirred something in me. Ill definately try to include elven and dwarven, but they're copyrighted by the tolkein estate so theyll probably never appear in pathfinder itself :( It may take a few days for me to come up with an initial draft. I may get myself out of your thread because this project strays from your intent I think. I credit you with my inspiration. :)
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I usually describe Celestial as a seeming chorus of angelic voices, akin to a few different arias from Mozart. Multipart, even out of one being. Of course, usually my party can't speak it, and thus this increases the usage and importance of Comprehend Languages and various other spells. For those that actually take the language (usually bards and clerics or oracles) I would say they sing a particular part...the alto, or the tenor depending. Its like when Americans typically try to speak French...they understand it and know what you mean, but to them it sounds foreign and flat. Most beings that speak celestial also speak common anyhow, so I flavor it as though they seem almost affronted that the mortal is butchering their language and they drop to common for better understanding.
Infernal? Death Metal growling and yelling. ala this. (wtf is he...uhm...saying? growling? screaming?)
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The TV Tropes Pathfinder page has this which may give an idea of which language to use for assorted cultures:
Fantasy Counterpart Culture: Absalom is Jerusalem. Amanandar is Hong Kong. Andoran is the early United States. Brevoy and Iobaria are medieval Russia. Dtang Ma is Thailand. The Erutaki are Inuit. The Forest of Spirits is ancient Japan, by way of Princess Mononoke. Galt is revolutionary France. Hongal is Mongolia. Hwanggot is Korea. Iblydos is ancient Greece. Irrisen is the fairy tale version of Russia (complete with Baba Yaga!). Katapesh is Arabia. Kelesh is Persia. The Lands of the Linnorm Kings are Scandinavia. Lung Wa and its many Successor States are China. Minata is Indonesia and the Philippines. Minkai is Japan and so is Shokuro. The Mwangi Expanse is Darkest Africa. Ninshabur is Babylon. Osirion is Egypt. Qadira is also Arabia (with some Persian influences). The Arcadians are Native Americans, and so are the Shoanti (though the Shoanti are also influenced by Robert E. Howard's Picts). Sarusan is Australia. Taldor is the Byzantine Empire. Ustalav is fantasy Transylvania. The Varisians are the Roma (Gypsies). The Varki are Sami (native Finnish). Vudra is India. The Wall of Heaven is Nepal. Xa Hoi is Vietnam. Zi Ha is Tibet.
Wow - TV Tropes ftw. Thanks for posting that.
Also, @Bomanz - That reminds me of Mary speaking with mulefa in His Dark Materials...it would certainly be interesting to make the more outlandish languages difficult/impossible for standard humanoid speech. Anyone have suggestions for linguistic modifiers based on components such as, oh, whether there's a particular syllabic emphasis or body gesture involved? Japanese also comes to mind, as putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable can change your meaning entirely.
Also added to the list of interesting mechanics for this kind of esthetic - Oracle (again) with a curse of Tongues. Maybe add to that the Lore Mystery?
The Curse of Tongues could be expanded to include a tongue from another people on Golarian. The GM could roll or choose privately, and all the oracle knows is that people tell her that she starts babbling when she gets into battle. Then one day she meets a caravan of traders from Hongal or Shoanti or some such place and they hear her babbling and start responding to it...
A good aligned divine caster in the inner Sea region is more likely to speak celestial than Tian-Min, in all likelihood.
I've come across two curious questions...
1) Where would you place a character with a German (*cough*Jaegerkin*cough*) accent?
2) Should Cheliax be a slightly pre-Victorian sort of England? Mind you, I haven't played CoT, or even read up very much about the place...there is maybe something better suited?
2) Should Cheliax be a slightly pre-Victorian sort of England? Mind you, I haven't played CoT, or even read up very much about the place...there is maybe something better suited?
Regarding CoT, Westcrown has a vague Renaissance-era Italian feel to it. Think Assassin's Creed in spirit.
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Aha, thank you. Which leaves me still wondering where to put my Jaegerkin, er, I mean German fellow.
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Aha, thank you. Which leaves me still wondering where to put my Jaegerkin, er, I mean German fellow.
By the list above I'd say andoran. Depending on how "early US" they mean. If you go back to the late 1700's nearly half the country spoke German. In fact, the vote to make English the official language won over German by 1 vote.
Personally, my games developed a few language traits:
Draconic being roughly like Latin, acting as the language of the educated (ever wonder why Wizards get it added to their language list?)
Infernal is a complex but very precise language that resembles legal contracts, even in spoken word. Subtleties are conveyed through tone and meter, so even if you can translate, you might not catch a devils meaning.
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So, actually running an AP raises so many more questions than playing a character. A few things I've attempted to sort out :
What language ought to be spoken in Ustalav? Because Skald doesn't make any sense, no matter what the guide says. I was thinking Romanian, only I've used that for Varisian (on account of them being largely inspired by Roma, and also the migration from an Italian-style Chelish, I don't know, it seemed to fit). I thought about Hungarian, though I'm using that for Brevoyan - it seemed odd to repeat the Irrisen esthetic in Brevoy when there's this lovely Hungarian style just sitting around collecting dust. Then, given Lepidstadt and whatever else, I was thinking maybe this is the German I was looking for. Only it's a little unfair to dump the country of spooks and horrors on Germany...or anywhere, come to that. So my fix is this - "Stalav" is an odd, cobbled collection of Brevoyan (Hungarian), Varisian (Romanian), and northern Andoran (German). Gives me lots of word choices for just that perfect esthetic, and also keep those grammar-nazi players at bay. (I actually have a player who's fluent in Romanian - who knew?)
Meanwhile, now I've got Varisian, which I was thinking of before as the south of France (used a picture of Eze for Sandpoint, it's a perfect fit), and now I've gone and made it all Romanian. My solution, I think, is to have some odd city-evolution Varisian (French), as opposed to the 'wild' Varisian (Romanian), except I don't have an excuse for it yet. Working on that.
I've adopted Brambleman's notion of Draconic as Latin, only I've kept Latin for Infernal as well - the difference being that demons have added to the old language, overcomplicated it, thrown all manner of conjugations and circumstances in, so that it's a massively complex knot of gobbledegook and legal jargon, very difficult to sort out by anyone who isn't either demonic, trained to it, or extremely patient and perceptive. I like Bomanz' use of Celestial, as well - a chorus, probably of simply sung notes, not even words, very tonal. Normal humans would never be able to get it quite right without some assitance - perhaps magical, or else just several voices chipping in to 'speak' simultaneously - though one could generally do well enough to be understood. On the same note, Abyssal could be a multitonal screeching/baying of dogs...it might not even quite matter which you go with, dialects varying massively, if only the tone and intention are important. More descriptive than translative. This would lead to all sorts of arguments and misunderstandings, but, you know...devils.
I was going to say that Sylvan is Irish Gaelic, perhaps with a shot of Scotch, but I got to thinking about Aklo and Old Gnome. Old Gnome (I don't think there is a New Gnome, they just call their own language Old Gnome.) should be Irish, and Irish Gaelic, and Scotch Gaelic, and probably some Cornish, a bit of Yorkshire, and odd bits of French as well. It's a large language, breaking all its own rules, but fairly simple and adaptable, like English is in our world. Easy to learn, if perhaps difficult to master.
Aklo, however, hrm...Aklo is totally dependent on story, setting and situation - sometimes it's the howling of winter wind through an ancient wood, sometimes it's the keening of a kestrel, or the long, sad note of an instrument. It takes experience to even recognize it as a language. That's fey for you. So then Sylvan should be similar, but not so bleak - don't have any examples off the top off my head, though.
Whew - didn't realize I had that much saved up. Alright, then - thoughts?
I always figured that you'd find Russian and other Slavic-sounding languages up around Brevoy, and that Taldan would probably be something like Byzantine Greek (or maybe Latin?). Though by the time you're around Cheliax Taldan/Common sounds more like Castilian Spanish, very formal, with little sharp blades dancing around the edges of every compliment. And of course the Galtan dialect sounds French, unless they're trying to institute a new language to 'remove all traces of linguistic oppression' under the latest regime.
Or should Hallit, the Kellid speech, be something of a Slavic tongue? Maybe you hear it like Russian around Brevoy and Numeria, like Polish or Ukrainian in the River Kingdoms, and, I don't know, Serbian or Czech in Razmiran?
Ulfen is pretty clearly (to me) Scandinavian with some Finnish tossed in, especially in and around Irrisen.
Vudrani = Sanskrit or Hindi, and Polyglot should be like like Swahili; which, if I remember right, started out as a 'trade tongue', a real life Common if you will, in Africa. And Tian is probably some dialect of Chinese (like Han?), with the various other tongues something like various 'relatives' from our world -- though if you can speak Draconic, you can speak slowly and simply in the Tian-Dan and Tian-Dtang dialects due to crossover between the two.
Kelish is a highflown and flowery Arabic of the time of Classical Islam, though there are probably quarrels amongst speakers over the relative 'purity' of the Qadiran dialect as compared to the 'true' Kelish spoken in the empire's heart.
Varisian is probably something like Romanian, being the older pre-Varisian speech of Thassilon (or at least the version spoken by the slave* castes) mixed with Taldan by way of Cheliax and with loan words from Kellid and Ulfen. (* -- The word "slave" didn't officially exist in Thassilonian; it was taken for granted that you'd be someone's slave, so why point out the obvious in speech? The words for "free" translate as either "lord/lady" or "outcaste/bandit/not-person"; please note that this is all my personal canon, NOT anything from the game!) Shoanti is probably Romanian the way the Vlachs spoke it.
Osiriani? Probably sounds like some Berber dialect, probably with a surprisingly detailed vocabulary for both magic and describing the elements, given just how much influence they've had from the various elemental races and outsiders.
And the nonhuman languages? Who knows? I rather like thinking that the main dwarf dialects come off as either Scots Gaelic or Bavarian German. And really nonhuman languages like Draconic or the elemental tongues probably have 'dumbed down' versions fit for those noxious little bipeds to speak in, given their inferior vocal cords. Really, with some of these peoples it'd easier to write down what you want to say and let them read it.
That's my take anyway.
If you go back to the late 1700's nearly half the country spoke German. In fact, the vote to make English the official language won over German by 1 vote.
That's an amusing urban legend, but it's not true.
I've used Greco-Roman culture as an influence of Ancient Azlanti, trying to use Greek as the language instead of Latin.
Abberant languages, like Aboleth, are naturally Dutch. Just because that is the language HP Lovecraft often spoke of in his stories surrounding things of bad juju, like the Necronomicon.*
*At least, as best I recall. "The Hound" in particular had some evil dutch speaking antagonists.
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If you go back to the late 1700's nearly half the country spoke German. In fact, the vote to make English the official language won over German by 1 vote.That's an amusing urban legend, but it's not true.
Lol - yeah - the US doesn't even HAVE an official language.
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Lol - yeah - the US doesn't even HAVE an official language.
If you go back to the late 1700's nearly half the country spoke German. In fact, the vote to make English the official language won over German by 1 vote.That's an amusing urban legend, but it's not true.
Very interesting. Thanks for the correction :)
I use portuguese for draconic. Mostly becuase I'm learning portuguese and it helps me with vocabulary.
During the American Revolutionary War we used French for coded messages mainly because France was our ally. Also we used Dutch and occasionally Gaelic (Irish for top secret, Scottish for decoy messages)
Also I do know that the Confederacy during the civil war used German and Spanish for coded messages and were going to make them mandatory languages for all CSA citizens.
I like the concept but doesn't really work in person.
Here's my list. All of them are available on Google Translate. No offense to Serbs, or any one else!
I have attempted to keep the relationships between languages similar, including which languages use the same alphabets. I have also tried to shy away from languages which use the roman alphabet and which are commonly spoken by people not from those countries; e.g. German, French, Spanish. Common languages which use another alphabet (Russian, Chinese, Hindi) I went ahead and used, because there just aren't that many non-Roman alphabet languages on Google Translate.
For games played in English, one of the languages should presumably be English, typically Common, but varying depending on the nation in which the game primarily takes place.
Common/Taldane: Esperanto
Hallit: Polish
Kelish: Turkish
Osiriani: Urdu
Polyglot: Swahili
Shadowtongue: Welsh
Shoanti: Irish
Tien: Japanese
Varisian: Basque
Vudrani: Tamil
Skald: Icelandic
Ancient Osiriani: Persian
Azlanti: Greek
Jistka: Latin
Tekritanin: Maltese
Thassilonian: Gujarati
Draconic: Chinese (Traditional)
Druidic: Bengali
Dwarven: Ukrainian
Elven: Finnish
Giant: Bulgarian
Gnome: Filipino
Goblin: Serbian
Gnoll: Belarusian
Halfling: Haitian Creole
Orc: Macedonian
Sylvan: Hindi
Abyssal: Kannada
Aquan: Armenian
Auran: Georgian
Celestial: Hebrew
Ignan: Thai
Infernal: Telugu
Terran: Russian