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...and the only character WITH a wand of CLW.
I hear over and over that one of the first things EVERY character should buy, is a wand of CLW, even if your character can't use it, so that someone who can use it, can use it on you.
But no one in our PFS group seems to do that. They seem to rely on the classes that can use the wands to have them and use them, generously.
In a game I played in recently, we had a very small group. Only 4 people including the GM, so the GM was running an NPC. It was a 1-2 game and I was playing a level 2 Druid. The other players were a level 2 Magus and a level 2 Ninja, and the GM played the NPC level 1 Fighter.
I was the only healer, and the only person with a wand. I blew through almost 20 charges on it in one game.
I sort of feel like I should tell the other players something like, "You get 1 free charge from my wand and any cure spells I have prepared (which, as a Druid, is 0), if you want more healing than that, you will need to buy your own, including potions or your own wand."
On the other hand, my Druid is Neutral Good so I don't think she would deny healing to a severely beat up character or, worse, a dying character.
So what's a "healer" to do? Suck it up and have to buy a new wand every few sessions?
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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I think what you put in quotes is fair. Tell them how cheap wands are for them to buy and if they want more healing than that, they can buy it. It might take dropping to negatives a few times, but they might get the picture. Or once the wand runs out, get another but don't let them use it at all. Just because you CAN heal doesn't mean you HAVE to.
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...and the only character WITH a wand of CLW.
I hear over and over that one of the first things EVERY character should buy, is a wand of CLW, even if your character can't use it, so that someone who can use it, can use it on you.
But no one in our PFS group seems to do that. They seem to rely on the classes that can use the wands to have them and use them, generously.
In a game I played in recently, we had a very small group. Only 4 people including the GM, so the GM was running an NPC. It was a 1-2 game and I was playing a level 2 Druid. The other players were a level 2 Magus and a level 2 Ninja, and the GM played the NPC level 1 Fighter.
I was the only healer, and the only person with a wand. I blew through almost 20 charges on it in one game.
I sort of feel like I should tell the other players something like, "You get 1 free charge from my wand and any cure spells I have prepared (which, as a Druid, is 0), if you want more healing than that, you will need to buy your own, including potions or your own wand."
On the other hand, my Druid is Neutral Good so I don't think she would deny healing to a severely beat up character or, worse, a dying character.
So what's a "healer" to do? Suck it up and have to buy a new wand every few sessions?
unfortunately ... thought I would make the suggestion every chance you get .. including as the new set of chronicles is being handed out .. ooo now you could get that clw wand you've been needing to get
...On the other hand, my Druid is Neutral Good so I don't think she would deny healing to a severely beat up character or, worse, a dying character.
So what's a "healer" to do? Suck it up and have to buy a new wand every few sessions?
AHAHAHAAHA
No free riders. This is awesome. Nationalized health care hitting a Pathfinder campaign/adventure. Tell them they need to buy insurance, but it will be expensive because of the hazardous life they lead. Or force everyone else in the city and nation around you to pay for their health care.
/me shakes his head
If the cost is too much and they don't want to contribute to their own health care, then you don't help them. They made a choice and they ought to face the consequences of that choice. Respecting their choice is just as Good as helping them when they admit to having made a mistake and promise to compensate you at the very next opportunity.
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In a home game its easy. 1) you usually have a cleric or 2) you use party treasure to purchase a wand for the one(or those) who can use it before divvying it up between everyone.
In PFS, that’s not how treasure works.
It is actually good etiquette to purchase a wand as soon as possible, so that those who can cast cure light wounds aren’t spending a large portion of their resources on wands and thus fall behind on the Wealth by Level curve.
If you tell them that you can’t afford to buy another wand for party use, then they might just be willing to purchase their own.
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When I play my cleric, the first thing I ask players at my table is, "Do you have your own wand? Why not?"
That usually gets the message across. If it doesn't, for some reason, I'd likely explain to them that, when they go into combat low on HP, I'll be happy to use stabilize on them to prevent them from dying, if my 20 ft movement speed allows me to reach them in time...
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Everyone should pick up at least one healing potion of their own, too, in case the guy with the wand/spells can't get to them. My 8th level barbarian has a wand of CLW that he hands to whatever healer he's traveling with that day, but he's also got a potion of cure serious and at least two cure moderate potions with him at all times.
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So this was How I was going to start my reply to this.
All my Characters get wands of CLW, even if they can't use for the express purpose of possibly being the only one in the group that can use them, or the only one in the group that has one to give to someone to use. I use wands for other people, and Potions for myself mostly, unless I am short then I use the wand. Wands to me are an expense for other players, just in case.
Then I was going to mention that in our local group I have gotten the players to get wands as well for use, so we share the use of the wands.
Then I realized the OP was one of our players, and I was confused on how she saw something totally different then I did, then I realized, wow we rarely play in the same game and most of the players she plays with are the same.
It seems that we have a split on our group.. will have to address that... ;)
So this was How I was going to start my reply to this.
All my Characters get wands of CLW, even if they can't use for the express purpose of possibly being the only one in the group that can use them, or the only one in the group that has one to give to someone to use. I use wands for other people, and Potions for myself mostly, unless I am short then I use the wand. Wands to me are an expense for other players, just in case.
Then I was going to mention that in our local group I have gotten the players to get wands as well for use, so we share the use of the wands.
Then I realized the OP was one of our players, and I was confused on how she saw something totally different then I did, then I realized, wow we rarely play in the same game and most of the players she plays with are the same.
It seems that we have a split on our group.. will have to address that... ;)
Nothing a little open, honest, good-goal oriented discussion can't resolve. Probably should have been done prior to making it this far, but people are often non-confrontational and look for oblique approaches to solving problems.
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Nothing a little open, honest, good-goal oriented discussion can't resolve. Probably should have been done prior to making it this far, but people are often non-confrontational and look for oblique approaches to solving problems.
I was just thinking about just Threatening them to have Kyle visit us as a Guest GM and have him GM a few games with their favorite PC... ;)
When I play my cleric, the first thing I ask players at my table is, "Do you have your own wand? Why not?"
That usually gets the message across. If it doesn't, for some reason, I'd likely explain to them that, when they go into combat low on HP, I'll be happy to use stabilize on them to prevent them from dying, if my 20 ft movement speed allows me to reach them in time...
FYI, Stabilize is a short range spell, not a touch range spell. One of the other changes from 3.5.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Plan A:
I would suggest the time to address it is before the party leaves town. Generally there is a time after the VC gives you your assignment and when you go adventuring. The GM usually says "Is there anything anyone wants to do before you head out?"
This is your cue to say "Everyone who wants healing needs to have their own wand of cure light wounds".
Plan B
Don't replace your wand. Next time you set out on an adventure mention "I burned up my last wand of cure light wounds, who is buying the next one?"
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Moon, I wondered if you'd see this thread. :) You can probably guess the people I am referring to. I think the...players who also GM (in other words, the people in your home game) are better about this than others. But there are some who I have never seen have a wand, unless they are playing a cleric or other divine caster.
It hasn't been an issue except for the last game with my Druid, I just don't want it to become an ongoing issue. And when I thought about it, most groups I have been in have had some kind of dedicated healer (cleric, or oracle maybe) so it hasn't been too much of a problem, but even then it seems like most of the PCs except for the divine casters don't have their own wands.
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Also, to the Magus's credit, he did have a wand of Infernal Healing that he used a couple of times. But, 1) my Druid was not comfortable being the target of an Evil spell, so she declined his offers to use it on her, and 2) his wand didn't do him much good when he went unconscious (more than once) and I needed to bring him back up to positive HP.
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Now, the way I see it, if a character can't possibly use a CLW wand, neither through UMD nor by being one of the classes with it on their spell list, then there's no reason they should waste their resources on it, in my opinion. When a table has no healer or character that has a decent UMD, then that's 750gp (or 2 PA) that is just wasting away in a fighter's backpack, when they could have put it toward magical armor, making the bad guys hit him less, or magical weapons, making the bad guys go away faster (or, in the case of PA, a 3rd level potion or something similarly helpful.) But if it IS on their spell list, or they can reliably hit the 20 mark on the UMD check to use a wand, they had better have one. The thing is about rolling a character who can do such things is that you will be bringing heals to the table. Nobody else should have to help you do your job.
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Nobody else should have to help you do your job.
I'll have to disagree. It's not my job to keep you on your feet. That's your job. How you decide to do it is up to you. You don't have to know anything to pop a potion. It's more expensive that way, sure, but you can go that route. The wand is cheaper, and shows the people you're playing with that you're not there just to use up their resources, so they might be more likely to be generous with their actions and work your wand for you if need be. For instance, I play an oracle of stone that *can* work a wand of clw. But it's not why I made him, and not my first go to for fun.
That said, most people are nice people and will help others. They shouldn't be penalized for being nice by being expected to pay out over and over again for someone else's fun.
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Now, the way I see it, if a character can't possibly use a CLW wand, neither through UMD nor by being one of the classes with it on their spell list, then there's no reason they should waste their resources on it, in my opinion. When a table has no healer or character that has a decent UMD, then that's 750gp (or 2 PA) that is just wasting away in a fighter's backpack, when they could have put it toward magical armor, making the bad guys hit him less, or magical weapons, making the bad guys go away faster (or, in the case of PA, a 3rd level potion or something similarly helpful.) But if it IS on their spell list, or they can reliably hit the 20 mark on the UMD check to use a wand, they had better have one. The thing is about rolling a character who can do such things is that you will be bringing heals to the table. Nobody else should have to help you do your job.
And, what in heaven's name, makes you think healing YOU is my job?
It most definitely is NOT. I am here to perform the job I was given by the Venture Captain who gave us this mission.
If you want to get healed, provide a way to heal you. Otherwise, your death is your own responsibility. Sucks to be you, if a measly 750 gp expense would have kept you alive, but you were too cheap to spend it.
Me? I draw the line at giving my money to you, day after day, mission after mission. I will buy a wand, for myself, but if you want to be healed, you need to provide the resources yourself. I need my money to outfit myself, not waste it on you, so that I don't need to spend MY money and resources on you, they need to go to myself, just like you think your resources, and MINE, should go to you.
Me? You want me to heal you, you better give me some assistance in doing so. Otherwise, you can just stand inside the radius of my Channel Energy, and hope that I am channeling POSITIVE energy to affect the LIVING. Of course, if this is my Dhampir cleric, it isn't, so sorry. Have a nice day. Oh, sorry, I spontaneously cast Inflict spells, not Cure spells....
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I'm sorry...but as a Druid, my job is not to play healbot. Yes, Druids can play healers if they want to, but that is not why I rolled, or the way I built my Druid. She is a summoner (granted, at 2nd level, not much of a summoner, but she will be by level 4 or 5) and a crowd controller. If I want to play a healer, I have both an Oracle and a Cleric that I could have used instead, who are both better healers than my Druid. By the logic that "You have UMD/CLW on your spell list, you need to play healer" then Rangers, Rogues, and Bards would also be healers.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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And heck, as long as you don't have a negative Cha (you don't dump Cha, right? ;D) you could put a point into UMD whether its a class skill or not and have a chance (however small) of using your wand yourself. Sure you might have to roll a 18+, but that's still a chance of using it yourself. Just don't roll a one and you're golden. (oh, and don't try it during combat ;D)
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Nobody else should have to help you do your job.
By this reasoning, non-healers shouldn't require healing to stay in the fight.
Sharing the cost of keeping your character alive is just good courtesy, as opposed to expecting the healer to do it all at his/her expense alone.
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SQUAWK. Latter suckers
Fly home.
+1. Couldn't agree more. This is actually a *huge* pet peeve of mine...players and GMs who think that you must fit into a 'role' based on your class. Nothing signals "bad/new player" than someone who assumes class = role.
I have no problem with people who play the cleric class who don't want to be healers. I prefer to play with players who play their characters *as* characters, rather than roles that others expect.
Here's how I handle playing a 'cleric' in my PbP game:
A note on Kyson:
I've not played a cleric in PbP before (I've played plenty in 'real life') and I don't intend him to be a healer in combat in the long run. I want him to be Kyson the Character first and foremost (class and role come far down the list of what is important to me...well behind character). I think there will be some evolving of both character and role as he progresses and story progresses.
<snip> I hope that we can spread the healing responsibility around so that I can fully explore what Kyson will become.
Bad and badly-instructed players will assume that "clerics must heal me" and that "clerics are responsible for healing me". The truth is that players/characters are responsible for their own healing...unless they are played as idiots...in which case, play on.
My point: In PFS play or not in PFS play, play a character, not a freakin' role. If other yahoos want to play badly (and not take responsibility for their own healing), let them and move on.
-Pain
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Nobody else should have to help you do your job.
Rangers, druids, paladins, oracles, clerics, bards, inquisitors, alchemists and witches all have the ability to use wands of cure light wounds. As a matter of fact, so does any character who puts a few points into UMD.
Now I may not speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure most rangers did not sign on to play a healer. I would also assume that most people don't like other players wasting their money and prestige points. If you want to be healed, especially out of combat, bring your own source of healing.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I've quite often seen scenarios start out with the healer asking the other characters if they'd like her* to carry their wands for them so she'll be able to cure them. That seems to get the message across ...
Channeling cures during combat comes for free. After that, any potions found during the encounter (and maybe even some available spells) will be used. But paid-for resources such as wands are not for public use.
* I say "her" because quite often the character in question is my wife's cavalier/cleric. My character is the only one who gets free heals from her wand, and that's on the firm understanding that I'll be paying for the next one (so it will be on my chronicle sheet, and I'll hand it over at the beginning of the adventure; PFS rules don't let me actually buy it for her).
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The only characters who get a pass for using someone else's wand is if they are brand new or failed their first faction mission; if you have 2 fame and you don't have a wand of cure light wounds, you had better have brought a stock of potions for yourself.
Well, sometimes, it works out differently. My sorcerer used his first two PP to buy himself a wand of magic missile, then used his second two PP to get the wand of CLW.
In situations like that, I, at least, will be a little more lenient. Same for the archer specialist who uses hir first two PP to get their Masterwork Darkwood Composite Longbow (Str +X). Maybe that dragonhide breastplate for that Druid, I dunno.
And my Sorc at least has a potion or two of CLW....
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The only characters who get a pass for using someone else's wand is if they are brand new or failed their first faction mission; if you have 2 fame and you don't have a wand of cure light wounds, you had better have brought a stock of potions for yourself.Well, sometimes, it works out differently. My sorcerer used his first two PP to buy himself a wand of magic missile, then used his second two PP to get the wand of CLW.
In situations like that, I, at least, will be a little more lenient. Same for the archer specialist who uses hir first two PP to get their Masterwork Darkwood Composite Longbow (Str +X). Maybe that dragonhide breastplate for that Druid, I dunno.
And my Sorc at least has a potion or two of CLW....
I would be slightly more understanding, but I'm of pretty firm belief that any character's first 2 PP should go into healing. They certainly shouldn't expect healing from others just because they wanted a masterwork weapon or better armour first.
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The only characters who get a pass for using someone else's wand is if they are brand new or failed their first faction mission; if you have 2 fame and you don't have a wand of cure light wounds, you had better have brought a stock of potions for yourself.
I am curious what people would think of my PFS character.
My Druid is now Level 5 and has never bought (or been asked to use) a wand of CLW. I personally buy a couple of potions of CLW so that if I go down someone can feed it to me. Additionally, if required I have a set of healing spells I can prepare:
Level 0
Detect Poison
Virtue
Resistance
Stabilize
Level 1
Cure Light Wounds x3
Goodberry
Level 2
Delay Poison
Restoration, Lesser x2
Even if there are other healers in the party I always prep Stabilize and one Cure Light Wounds.
My character also has a +9 Heal skill modifier and carries a healing kit.
So, would people be annoyed that my character didn't have a wand of CLW?
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So, would people be annoyed that my character didn't have a wand of CLW?
I'm only annoyed when a player doesn't bring his own healing and expects others to pick up the slack (especially when it involves using consumables). If you feel safe without a wand and you're not leeching other people's loot, I would be fine, albeit sceptical.
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Now, the way I see it, if a character can't possibly use a CLW wand, neither through UMD nor by being one of the classes with it on their spell list, then there's no reason they should waste their resources on it, in my opinion. When a table has no healer or character that has a decent UMD, then that's 750gp (or 2 PA) that is just wasting away in a fighter's backpack, when they could have put it toward magical armor, making the bad guys hit him less, or magical weapons, making the bad guys go away faster (or, in the case of PA, a 3rd level potion or something similarly helpful.) But if it IS on their spell list, or they can reliably hit the 20 mark on the UMD check to use a wand, they had better have one. The thing is about rolling a character who can do such things is that you will be bringing heals to the table. Nobody else should have to help you do your job.
So what you are saying is, that healers should be left behind on the Wealth by Level curve by funding the entire party's healing?
You don't see how that's unfair?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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See this is an easy one...
Then go "Aww man wrong wand!"
If it weren't for that pesky "no PvP" rule, this would be a fun solution.
"Well, I've got these two wands here, but I forgot to label which one was Cure and which one was Inflict. Should I guess, or do you have one of your own for me to use on you?"
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This is a regular problem with new players/groups... prior posters have already adequately addressed the OP's issue. I just want to add encouragement to stand up for yourself- don't let "but *your're* the designated healer" attitude put you on the losing end of this issue (which at it's core is really an economic one). You have a right not to have to pay for other people's excessive healing.
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I never ran into this problem until I started playing a battle cleric. People never expected my inquisitor to heal them for some reason, maybe the big red and black Cheliax liveried cloak or something.
I have had fellow party members get angry at me for essentially taking two rounds to heal them instead of just one, which is completely ridiculous. Gustav is fast becoming fond of saying "The Inheritor frowns on those who selfishly hoard their strength away during the struggle against evil."
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This is one of the reasons why I love my druid/barbarian. Whenever things get dicey, Ruukia whips out her wand of CLW (still in the 1-2 bracket) and heals herself up. Her Fey Foundling heritage helps out a bit too ;)
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I think at least part of this issue stems from MMO players, especially WOW, where it *is* a requirement that a 'healer' be part of the group, and that some heal-through-the-encounter is expected.
A lack of communication amongst players when there is a difference in expectation is necessary or you'll sometimes see people ragequit suddenly in mid-fight...
I couldn't comment on the source of it (as I have no* experience with MMOs), but there are indeed a couple of misconceptions about healing in Pathfinder:
1) People think that constant access to in-combat healing is necessary (or even desirable).
2) People think that healing must be a PC's primary focus (as opposed to just another capability). This leads to a secondary assumption that someone who can heal has made it their primary focus.
People just need to read Painlord's guides! :D
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I think at least part of this issue stems from MMO players, especially WOW, where it *is* a requirement that a 'healer' be part of the group, and that some heal-through-the-encounter is expected.
The meme has been around since well before wow and everquest, so they're probably not to blame.
In 2e you really did need a healer. Magic items weren't readily available, non casters couldn't even think of looking at them. Damage potential was a lot lower on both sides, so you could keep the fighter nearly topped off with combat healing. You also didn't have much else to do because there wasn't the plethora of kick ass cleric spells that there are now, much less the custamizability required to make a combat cleric: heck, you effectively couldn't have higher than a 16 con or strength.
In a game I played in recently, we had a very small group. Only 4 people including the GM, so the GM was running an NPC. It was a 1-2 game and I was playing a level 2 Druid. The other players were a level 2 Magus and a level 2 Ninja, and the GM played the NPC level 1 Fighter.
I was the only healer, and the only person with a wand. I blew through almost 20 charges on it in one game.
Holy catfish!! What tier 1-2 scenario did you play in that required that much healing?
Personally, I haven't bothered buying wands of CLW for my level 1-2 PCs because there's usually not that much damage and some creature usually has a few potions of CLW as treasure. I just stick with a couple of potions and/or scrolls of CLW instead.
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Now, the way I see it, if a character can't possibly use a CLW wand, neither through UMD nor by being one of the classes with it on their spell list, then there's no reason they should waste their resources on it, in my opinion.
And there's no reason the people that *do* have the ability to use a CLW wand should waste *their* resources on healing you in that case. At least, that's what my profit-oriented cleric of Torag would point out when you complained about how I'm not using my wand charges on you.
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In a game I played in recently, we had a very small group. Only 4 people including the GM, so the GM was running an NPC. It was a 1-2 game and I was playing a level 2 Druid. The other players were a level 2 Magus and a level 2 Ninja, and the GM played the NPC level 1 Fighter.
I was the only healer, and the only person with a wand. I blew through almost 20 charges on it in one game.
Holy catfish!! What tier 1-2 scenario did you play in that required that much healing?
Personally, I haven't bothered buying wands of CLW for my level 1-2 PCs because there's usually not that much damage and some creature usually has a few potions of CLW as treasure. I just stick with a couple of potions and/or scrolls of CLW instead.
I think my sorcerer used 7 or 8 charges from his Wand of Infernal Healing as the only healer in the group when I played First Steps, Part 2 last weekend. Some of those fights were vicious.
These responces are all fine but I have another perspective for you. You dont heal me , I dont try to stop those big bad monster from tearing your head off , and when they do I have a nice new wand to use.
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We were playing Mists of Mwangi. There were several things that went against our favor:
The Magus got paralyzed by the ghoul in the room with all the undead. The zombie with a 20AC was a pain in the &^% for all of us with average BAB and STR to hit; I ended up using my Produce Flame spell to hit him with touch attacks.
The Magus and my Druid both got paralyzed by the Vargouilles and my Druid and Valeros both got hit by their poison, so I blew at least a few charges trying (and being unsuccessful) to heal us before we realized magical healing was next to ineffective.
The Ninja, for whatever reason, kept trying to trip enemies rather than actually hitting and killing them (I'm talking the 4HP skeletons here, seriously one hit with his weapon would have taken them out but he kept trying to trip them "Because I get an extra +1 to my attack roll for tripping as opposed to just hitting them!"), then got annoyed with us when we wouldn't flank with him to make his trip attempts more effective.
Also, for the record, neither of these guys were newbies. One of them has been playing PFS as long as I have (around a year now) and the other has been around longer than that. Both have multiple characters but whenever I play with them, I have never seen them have or use a wand. If they do have them, they don't offer them to the healers/UMD monkeys to use. This was the first time that I've had to play a "healer" with both of them in my group.
Oh, and I did just double check and I actually only used 13 charges on the wand, so I apologize for mis-quoting in my original post. But...I still find that to be a very high number for a single scenario. That's over 1/4 the total charges or 195gp which is kind of a lot for a 2nd level character.