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any ability that requires a standard action to activate but has the "at will" attached to it can be maintained permanently so long as you are conscious. at the beginning of the game. "every x minutes i renew my detect evil"
Really, other than the rider (move action benefit), all the ability does is give the Paladin an orison.
So, you think that orisons and cantrips can be kept up all the time with no cost past the initial cast?
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Why are there so many people claiming it would be logical to attack an "evil" creature that just helped you in combat? Assuming your character even has enough ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) to know the difference between an Imp and a Mephit, why would you think it logical to attack something that just helped you? After the combat, maybe, but not during.
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Alright ... I'm going to be a bit pointed here.
I keep coming back to this thread each time i see "2 new" posts showing, in hopes that the original post will be discussed.
I understand that there are quite a few people who like the currently popular threads about imps and paladin abilities ... But, for the sake of the rest of us who aren't necessarily intested in a rehash of the exact same topic as has devolved in a half dozen other threads, can we please try not to derail this one into the same debate?
If you're intested in that debate, please, refer to one of those other threads on the topic
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Alright ... I'm going to be a bit pointed here.
I keep coming back to this thread each time i see "2 new" posts showing, in hopes that the original post will be discussed.
I understand that there are quite a few people who like the currently popular threads about imps and paladin abilities ... But, for the sake of the rest of us who aren't necessarily intested in a rehash of the exact same topic as has devolved in a half dozen other threads, can we please try not to derail this one into the same debate?If you're intested in that debate, please, refer to one of those other threads on the topic
Agreed. However, haven't the original questions in this thread been answered?
Clarification on the skills: Your familiar gets all your skill ranks, so if you want it to have knowledge, sense motive, etc., invest in those skills yourself and so your familiar will have them too. Also note that if you have a class skill, it doesn't mean your familiar does as well. All familiars have their own class skills, like an AC (climb, perception, etc).
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Agreed. However, haven't the original questions in this thread been answered?Indeed, by and large, they have ... I was kind of hoping to read more anecdotes/tips on what to do with a familiar:
Also, what do you usually do with your Familiar?
For example, one of the greatest scenes in which I ever used my familiar was while fighting another spellcaster. I don't remember much about the wizard himself, because he went down rather handily, but, he had a raven familiar (which, if memory serves was Fiendish). I got to send in my Celestial Goshawk (just a particular breed of hawk) to go head to head with the raven. It kept him from using the familiar to deliver touch spells and whatnot, and it was neat to actually get to use my Celestial familiar to deliver a Shocking Grasp to the familiar to end it.
It was entirely aerial, and my familiar got to have it's own combat actions ... it was a hoot and the other players actually cheered and rooted when the familiars were going at it. I believe that I may've gotten a high-five when the Fiendish Raven went down. Granted, this was in another OP campaign, but, still ... it's an epic memory.I'd love to hear some interesting things that players have done in PFS with their familiars.
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My arcane trickster has a monkey. Monky has high stealth. He took town an ogre by having shocking grasp "stored" in him until he could sneak around the ogre and delilver the spell. Then did a dance on top of the smoking corpse.
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Improved Familiar
This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but
only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.
Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar,
compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below).
Benefit: When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed
below are also available to you (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary
for statistics on these creatures). You may choose a familiar
with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment
axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil).
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Are Quasits available? All of this mumbo jumbo, and I cant figure it out. >.> Not an Imp fan. But a quasit.. Mmm Quasit
Page 127 of the CRB lists the basic Improved Familiars, and yes, Quasit is on that list.
Of course, since Quasits are CE, you have to be either CN or NN to have a quasit familiar in PFS.
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any ability that requires a standard action to activate but has the "at will" attached to it can be maintained permanently so long as you are conscious. at the beginning of the game. "every x minutes i renew my detect evil"
Any paladin at my table who wants to "always be detecting evil" is going to force the entire table into initiative for the full 4-5 hours. It's a great ability, but don't be a jerk about it.
any ability that requires a standard action to activate but has the "at will" attached to it can be maintained permanently so long as you are conscious. at the beginning of the game. "every x minutes i renew my detect evil"Any paladin at my table who wants to "always be detecting evil" is going to force the entire table into initiative for the full 4-5 hours. It's a great ability, but don't be a jerk about it.
Exactly. I was going to support Kyle's remark with a real world anecdotal example, but I don't have to- there's a perfectly good in game precedent.
A rogue can claim to be constantly looking for traps all the time, and I would shove his party into never-ending initiative too. Now there is the trap spotter rogue trick that makes looking for traps a very passive ability that doesn't require the rogue to constantly pester the GM with Perception checks. I think, in that specific context, that is a good idea! That is a class ability that makes the game more fun for player and GM, and the trap is a very passive adversary (unlike a NPC or player). The detection of the trap is essentially 50% of the job in defeating them.
But my point and the precedent I'm seeing is that it takes two class abilities to really pull off a constant at will ability that puts all the work on the GM and not the player.
And there is no "evil spotter" paladin trick to absolve the player of having to be active about using a detect evil. And from a design standpoint, I think adding one as a feat is ill advised. After all, trap spotter has a limited range of 10 feet, requiring the rogue to out in front and fairly active in its use.
Even without a precedent, I'd still put them in initiative. Play the game, not game the play.
Finally, I really don't run the monsters with constant at will senses any different, so I feel I am being consistent.
Me: Yeah, he did. Silly monster. You want me to roll some kinda fumble effect for him? I only ask, because I'll do the same for you. Maybe break your leg, put out your eye, stab yourself in the nads- something like that. Whaddya think?
Player: Nah, that's okay. I'm good. Automatic miss on 1 is just fine by me.
Not to mention that trap spotter only gives the player a *chance* to detect a trap. Detect evil is yes/no.
For all my games, I use passive perception much like 4e. If the party is in some sort of dangerous area, of course they're looking around at stuff. If they're walking down the street with no real reason to be expecting danger, they don't get passive perceptions.
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I agree with Jim and Kyle.
However, I did want to comment.
While I agree, trapspotter may not be a rogue talent that everyone takes or even needs (assuming you are creating a rogue that isn't good at traps or just doesn't care to find and disable them, for whatever reason), why not make it a hard coded part of the rogue class? I'd give it to them at 2nd level, and then let the rogue talents progress from there.
Archetypes can modify that talent as they need to.
I agree with Jim and Kyle.
However, I did want to comment.
While I agree, trapspotter may not be a rogue talent that everyone takes or even needs (assuming you are creating a rogue that isn't good at traps or just doesn't care to find and disable them, for whatever reason), why not make it a hard coded part of the rogue class? I'd give it to them at 2nd level, and then let the rogue talents progress from there.
Archetypes can modify that talent as they need to.
Personally, I agree with you too Andrew. A player that doesn't take it as a rogue almost hurts the GM to a degree. But I can't cite anything but RAW or someone will jump me.
*sigh* Now I want an atomie familiar...
You are not alone on that one
Anyone else having a flashback of Belkar Bitterleaf and the infamous sheet of lead?
Anyone else notice that Arbiters are the only truly invincible (ie: hard to actually kill) familiar? Note: this assumes the enemy does not have the chaos subtype, weapons, or spells.
Admitedly, thats about the main power they have that is actually useful. (Yes, I know....Detect Chaos and PFC could be considered useful, but this is an good vs evil game at its core not Law vs Chaos.)
- Gauss
I have a question about this "no pvp in PFS":
If you have the choice to deal aoe damage with a familiar inside the zone of effect or watch another PC bleed to death are you not allowed to cast that fireball/use that channel to harm evil outsiders etc?
What kind of "not allowed" is it?
I never played PFS so I'm curious.
All this talk of Improved Familiar...bah! I feel that's a cop-out. By the time I get to 7th level I've got a couple wands, one of which is Monstrous Pysique or if my GM will allow it Bipedal Animal. Bam; I've got an owl that now doubles as a wand wielder.
But then I've also got an owl.
By 7th level my owl can speak to me or other owls, it can deliver touch attacks (if ABSOLUTELY necessary), and share spells. It can fly over fights delivering payloads it drops from it's talons. I've got REALLY expensive, masterwork barding that currently act as masterwork studded leather and eventually will be magic armor. My familiar is stealthy, cool, pimped and useful for double skill checks and such.
But then I've also got an owl.
Here's the thing; I've never had the paladin of the party attack my owl. I've never had a game-affecting adverse reaction to my owl in non-combat scenes. I've also never had to do much hunting the couple times I got stranded in the wilderness - owl did that. I can let my owl perch on a tree outside or rafter inside the local tavern for info gathering; I can have it just be in plain sight even for whatever purpose its serving.
I just don't look at my little owl as an extra combatant; that's what summon and charm spells are for. No, I look at my little buddy as a friend, a colleague, and almost like an apprentice or a child. As I develop so does it and, by epic level gaming I could have the Owls of G'Hoon thing going on, or at the very least that crazy owl from the Rats of Nimh.
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Personally, unless I'm playing a witch, I don't bother going Improved Familiar (a whole feat for a fairly minor class ability...I don't care if they give me extra wand hands, my DM'd probably call shenanigans, rules or no). I instead use familiars as both fluff and possibly as information gathering/sending.
If I used a raven familiar I'f be oh so so tempted to have it quork Snow every couple of minutes...and I'd have it send messages tied to its leg even though it can talk...
but I prefer an octapus familiar that lives on my head. It makes an awesome-looking (or stupid-looking) hat that can grab people's faces when they annoy me. "Oh god, the tentacles are in my eyes!" Hehe...
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I have a question about this "no pvp in PFS":
If you have the choice to deal aoe damage with a familiar inside the zone of effect or watch another PC bleed to death are you not allowed to cast that fireball/use that channel to harm evil outsiders etc?
What kind of "not allowed" is it?I never played PFS so I'm curious.
The literal rule from PFS:
No Player-versus-Player Combat
The goal of Pathfinder Society Organized Play is to provide an enjoyable experience for as many players as possible. Player-versus-player conflict only sours a session. While killing another character might seem like fun to you, it certainly won’t be for that character’s player. Even if you feel killing another PC is in character for your PC at this particular moment, just figure out some other way for your character to express herself. In short, you can never voluntarily use your character to kill another character—ever. Note that this does not apply to situations where your character is mind-controlled by an NPC and forced to attack a fellow Pathfinder.
At present, when you are in a position where the best option is to include a fellow player's character or familar/animal companion/whatever, it is considered polite to at least ask for permission.
Remember that killing a witch's familiar is a really, really bad thing to do. Where a Wizard loses only a little bit, temporarily, a witch loses her spellbook, as well, and has a higher price for a replacement familiar, IIRC.
You really, really, really don't want to nerf your fellow player as badly as killing a witch's familiar nerfs the witch.
any ability that requires a standard action to activate but has the "at will" attached to it can be maintained permanently so long as you are conscious. at the beginning of the game. "every x minutes i renew my detect evil"
I know 0 level spells aren't "at will" but couldn't you do the same with, say, resistance? At low levels that would really help out a young wizard or sorcerer.