Mirror image says that whenever you are the target of a spell there is a possiblity that it hits the figment.
That's not what it says.
"Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll..."
Also, I don't see anything in that FAQ that changes how a figment works.
Again, Mirror Image has no effect unless there's an attack roll involved. Targeted spells that don't require an attack roll work normally.
Yes but the Faq implies that you can not target the caster for the same reason you can not target a image.
No, it doesn't.
Mirror image says that whenever you are the target of a spell there is a possiblity that it hits the figment. Well Magic Missle says that a missle of magical energy darts from your fingertip and strikes it's TARGET unerringly. That leads me to believe that the image is your TARGET.Please point out where it uses the wording "when the caster is targeted normally"It says this:
Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead.Magic missile does not require an attack roll.
It also says this:
Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figmentsMagic missile does not require an attack roll so why my earlier verbage was incorrect the idea is the same. Targeted spells don't require attack rolls, and therefore will always hit the caster.
Magic missile also says the target has to be a a creature. An image is not a creature, which was mentioned upthread.
Yes but the Faq implies that you can not target the caster for the same reason you can not target a image.No, it doesn't.you can not target a image because you can’t tell the images from the actual castern
but you can target the caster because...is magic?
In my opinion, it works the same as casting a Magic Missile against someone who is protected by Blur -- as long as you know the rough area that you're firing at, the magic does the rest of the targeting.
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I think this might be a problem because many of us played 3.5.
In 3.5, Mirror Image did work against Magic missile. And vice versa.
Cleave did as well.
It was a popular move vs Vrocks who loves casting mirror image to remove their images.
In PF, Mirror Image doesn't work against Magic missile (bypasses images now, damaging only caster), neither does Cleave. You can't remove images without hitting or dispel magic, making mirror Image more powerful.
3.5's ruling was more logical and so peope argue for it.
PF might be more a "game balance" issue and breaks versimitude/immersion.
Yes but the Faq implies that you can not target the caster for the same reason you can not target a image.Mirror image says that whenever you are the target of a spell there is a possiblity that it hits the figment.That's not what it says.
"Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll..."
Read my post with the two qoutes from mirror image. It specifically says spells that don't require attack rolls work as normal. In short there is no chance to target anything other than the caster unless an attack roll is involved.
Figments can be targets too.
Mirror images cannot.
Figments can be targets too.Mirror images cannot.
For arguments sake, lets say they could be targeted as a figment. Without attacking the caster first, the rest of the spells mechanics does not apply. You then just sent your magic missiles through the figments, which would remain in tact.
Basically you would waste the spell.
The confusion arises from the fact that the spell works in the enumerated ways according to how the designers wanted it to work. That's just what they wanted. It's a game: abstractions fall apart sometimes.
There are all sorts of places things don't work logically. Consider Cleave itself. Your first attack has to hit. Why? Surely, you can picture a warrior trying to sweep a large weapon over a 180 degree arc, and hit everyone, or nobody, or some combination in between. So why does that first attack need to hit? Confidence? "Aw, I missed. Guess I'll stop now." Kinda seems backwards, doesn't it? Hitting a target should slow your momentum, right?
I suppose this doesn't make anyone feel any better, but that's just how it is.
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Mirror image says that whenever you are the target of a spell there is a possiblity that it hits the figment. Well Magic Missle says that a missle of magical energy darts from your fingertip and strikes it's TARGET unerringly. That leads me to believe that the image is your TARGET.
You missed a phrase...
Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead. If the attack is a hit, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. If it is a figment, the figment is destroyed. If the attack misses by 5 or less, one of your figments is destroyed by the near miss. Area spells affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells that require a touch attack are harmlessly discharged if used to destroy a figment.
Not sure why the magic missile/mirror image interaction was ever an issue.
Regarding the OP...
As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach.
1st) If you pop an image, you did not hit your foe. You can only cleave if you hit.
2nd) Your second target needs to be adjacent. The images are all occupying the same space, and are not adjacent. Even if you hit the wizard with the first attack, unless there's another foe next to him, you can't Cleave into the images.The Pathfinder version made it harder to remove the images, and that bump in power is why it was promoted to a level 2 spell.
PF might be more a "game balance" issue and breaks versimitude/immersion.
Considering how broken Mirror Image was even before some of the devs decided that it needed to be even more overpowered, I'm not seeing much "balance" here at all.
one thing i am surprised hasnt been mentioned is. What is being discussed isnt in fact an errata. its a change from 3.5 to pf but as far as i know has been the case since pf was first printed.
Technically speaking the way the target info for the spell is set up (magic missile not mirror image) you cant actually target anything other than a living creature with it. Though i wouldnt personally make an issue of it in a game.
Its also unreasonable to expect a lvl 1 spell to negate a lvl 2 spell. Which is likely one of the reasons for the change.
The Pathfinder version made it harder to remove the images, and that bump in power is why it was promoted to a level 2 spell.
But Mirror Image has always been a 2nd level spell, going all the way back to the earliest versions of the game.
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one thing i am surprised hasnt been mentioned is. What is being discussed isnt in fact an errata.
I died a little inside :(
I mentioned it twice in this very thread.
Figments can be targets too. You are not saying you target the wizard, you are picking an image/wizards and guessing which is which. The developers that have "ruled" on this have no reasoning for any change, except for only the possibility that they shrug and go game balance. That is not enough to make a game good. Sometimes the odds are stacked against you and you have to overcome the odds. Are all encounters balanced perfectly? Absolutely not! It's up to player ingenuity to come up with ways to defeat an encounter and that way of thinking will totally immerse a player into the game. It will make it exciting and thrilling to adventure and defeat that insidious wizard, but apparently the developers don't care about that. They care about cookie-cutter same old boring encounters that are only countered by the same old effects.Read my post with the two qoutes from mirror image. It specifically says spells that don't require attack rolls work as normal. In short there is no chance to target anything other than the caster unless an attack roll is involved.Yes but the Faq implies that you can not target the caster for the same reason you can not target a image.Mirror image says that whenever you are the target of a spell there is a possiblity that it hits the figment.That's not what it says.
"Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll..."
Figments can be targets, but they can't be can not be targets for magic missile.
As I have said and the book as said for the purpose of targeting spells the caster is auto-chosen. I have even quoted it. The mirror image spells calls that out. Specific rules trump anything else.PS:Nobody said anything about perfect balance which is impossible to achieve anyway. That does not mean an attempt should be made, but that is an argument for another day.
one thing i am surprised hasnt been mentioned is. What is being discussed isnt in fact an errata.I died a little inside :(
I mentioned it twice in this very thread.
I am surprised that no one has mentioned that this is not an errata, but how the rule has always been printed. I don't get what all the confusion is about.
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*sigh* I do hate the new mirror image. It requires putting aside all semblance of world logic for the sake of making the mechanic work. This I do not like.
Oh well. That's what house rules are for, I suppose.
EDIT: Yes, I know that they claim that's how it was always supposed to work, but I had assumed it wasn't in order to try and keep what little sanity I had left.