Can I play a cleric who doesn't worship a deity in PFS?

[Lex Starwalker]

I was wondering if we're allowed to play a cleric who follows a concept instead of a deity in PFS. It says you can do this in the core book, but says to discuss it with the GM.

If we can, are there any limitations to the domains we can choose?

[Harley Quinn X]

The guide states that characters who don't get their powers from a deity can choose to not have a deity. I generally rule that to mean that clerics should have a deity, as they do get their powers from a deity and to avoid the confusion of people choosing all sorts of high-powered domains together, and the whole "GM approval" part. We all know what some GMs consider being acceptable differs from one to another as is.

Pathfinder Society Guide to Organized Play wrote:

Religion: Characters can elect to worship any deity listed in a table of gods in the Core Rulebook, Inner Sea World Guide, Gods & Magic, or any other source listed as an official Additional Resource. Characters may elect to worship an evil god, but must always be within one alignment step of their chosen deity. For clerics, this is an especially important choice, since the deity’s alignment determines whether the cleric channels positive or negative energy, a decision with significant tactical implications for the cleric and his allies. Characters who do not receive powers from a divine source may choose to be atheists or to have no deity at all.

[Sniggevert]

In Golarion, and PFS, a cleric must select a deity. For other worlds, or home games, non-deity specific clerics are the purview of the individual GM's.

[Lex Starwalker]

I can understand it not being allowed for PFS, however I was not aware that all clerics in Golarion must have a deity. Can you give a reference in the RAW where this is stated? As it contradicts the core book, I'm assuming it's in one of the Golarion sourcebooks, but I haven't been able to find it.

Thanks!

[Chris Mortika]

When Aroden died, all his clerics were stripped of the ability to regain spells. If clerics didn't need gods, there would still be clerics of Aroden, or perhaps clerics of the ethos of humanocentric destiny which the god represented.

[Dan Luckett]

The Core books (CRB, APG, UM, UC, and so on) are PFRPG rule books, not Golarion specific sourcebooks.

[Mergy]

James Jacobs has said that in his world, all divine casters have a deity who gives them powers. It's not in the Core Rules because it may be different for other worlds using the Pathfinder rule set, but because PFS takes place in Golarion, all divine casters must have a deity.

[Chris Mortika]

So Lex's question is: where in the Golarion-specific books does the text make this assertion clear? Or do all Golarion GMs need to read James thread to know about this restriction on clerics?

[Sniggevert]

Chris Mortika wrote:

So Lex's question is: where in the Golarion-specific books does the text make this assertion clear? Or do all Golarion GMs need to read James thread to know about this restriction on clerics?

It's strongly alluded to in the ISWG under religions I believe it was. I don't have access to the book at the moment to look up the exact language. It's the strongest in print language about clerics needing a deity for Golarion that I know of.

[Dan Luckett]

Chris Mortika wrote:

So Lex's question is: where in the Golarion-specific books does the text make this assertion clear? Or do all Golarion GMs need to read James thread to know about this restriction on clerics?

*Tongue in cheek*

Wait, you don't read JJ's thread and hang onto every last word he says already!?!? Guess that'll invalidate your stars Chris... :P

For the book you'd have to give me time to find it. The only place I know for sure is the PFSOPG, which I would consider a world source for the "arbitrary" concerns like this.

[Sniggevert]

OK, I found my PDF, and a couple of allusions to the need for a live god to get cleric spells.

ISWG pg. 235 wrote:

False gods and dead gods cannot grant spells to clerics, but other divine spellcasting classes (such as druids or

oracles) who gain their power from other sources, rather
than directly from the gods, can serve these forces as
champions or cultists. Forgotten gods, while unknown to
the world at large, can still grant spells to their clerics—
while they may be impossibly distant or depleted in power,
they linger still in unknown corners of the Great Beyond.

ISWG pg. 236 wrote:

In most cases, a philosophy is

created by a mortal, and while philosophies often persist
long after the founder’s death, the founder is not, in
fact, a deity. Followers of philosophical ways of thought
can be (and usually are) of varied classes. Clerics who
follow a philosophy must select a patron deity among the
philosophy’s associated religions (they gain no additional
benefits from adherence to a philosophy).

[Mergy]

I forgot about that. So druids and oracles are not required to worship a deity; are paladins required to have one?

[Dragnmoon]

Mergy wrote:

So druids and oracles are not required to worship a deity; are paladins required to have one?

No

[WalterGM]

Mergy wrote:

I forgot about that. So druids and oracles are not required to worship a deity; are paladins required to have one?

Also note that fighters are required to worship a god.

[Delbert Collins II]

You may choose a philosophy or you may also want to check out the Separatist archetype.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Chris Mortika wrote:

So Lex's question is: where in the Golarion-specific books does the text make this assertion clear? Or do all Golarion GMs need to read James thread to know about this restriction on clerics?

This post/thread will answer most of what was brought up here

[Dragnmoon]

Delbert Collins II wrote:

You may choose a philosophy or you may also want to check out the Separatist archetype.

Even when choosing a Philosophy you still need to pick a Deity associated with that Philosophy.

[Lex Starwalker]

Thanks for the clarifications! Much obliged! :)

[CaptPostMod]

What about Inquisitors in PFS. I've got an Andoran Freedom Fighter I'm thinking about multi-classing into an Inquisitor. He's gone 6 levels not really liking gods because they're oppressive powermongers. He'd make a great Inquisitor of Freedom, but wouldn't serve a god.

[Funky Badger]

CaptPostMod wrote:

What about Inquisitors in PFS. I've got an Andoran Freedom Fighter I'm thinking about multi-classing into an Inquisitor. He's gone 6 levels not really liking gods because they're oppressive powermongers. He'd make a great Inquisitor of Freedom, but wouldn't serve a god.

I can see that working as an Inquisitor of Norgorber.

[CaptPostMod]

Funky Badger wrote:

I can see that working as an Inquisitor of Norgorber.

Not for this guy. He's rough around the edges, but very much a good guy. He wouldn't serve an evil deity. He wouldn't serve anyone's the point, and definitely not a bad guy.

Can't find anywhere that says an Inquisitor can't just pick the Liberation domain sans a deity for PFS. So I'm thinking it's OK, but hoping maybe somebody can point me to a more definitive answer.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Andoran Freedom Fighter sounds perfect for Cayden Cailean (sp?)

He is the God of Freedom after all.

And the patron deity of Andoran.

[Funky Badger]

CaptPostMod wrote:

Funky Badger wrote:

I can see that working as an Inquisitor of Norgorber.

Not for this guy. He's rough around the edges, but very much a good guy. He wouldn't serve an evil deity. He wouldn't serve anyone's the point, and definitely not a bad guy.

Can't find anywhere that says an Inquisitor can't just pick the Liberation domain sans a deity for PFS. So I'm thinking it's OK, but hoping maybe somebody can point me to a more definitive answer.

I was thinking more along the lines of not knowing where he gets his powers from - but that's not PFS thinking...

First para of the Inquisitor section in the APG: "Although inquisitors are dedicated to a deity"

The, from Domains: "An Iquisitor can select one domain from from among those belonging to her deity"

I suppose you could hand-wave it a bit: "Yeah, we've got an understanding, Caylen and I... he don't ask me too much, and I look out the the little-guys..." etc.

[Cap'n "Black" Ramsey]

This would be where, if I could, I'd be posting as my pirate character Cap'n Ramsey

Arr, there always be Besmara, Pirate Goddess. She don't even care if ye worship her, jus' remember to live free, take whatcha want when ye can, and have fun!

[CaptPostMod]

Funky Badger wrote:

First para of the Inquisitor section in the APG: "Although inquisitors are dedicated to a deity"

Yeah, but there's still that "an Inquisitor can be devoted to an ideal instead of a deity" in the APG, too.

I wouldn't try to push it with a cleric. But I don't really see a valid reason that a PFS Inquisitor can't take advantage of this. Should be spelled out in the PFS Guide if not allowed (or at least the Additional Resources page on the site under society play).

I'll probably drop the idea all together if it meets too much opposition. Even friendly gods would piss this guy off to work for/under. He would never fall for the Death's Hertic type of scenario either.