How do you plan on them getting sneak attack at range?
If they are hidden in the shadows, then they can shoot ONE arrow when using the sniping ability of stealth.
The only "easy" way to get sneak attack at range is with Greater Invisibility, since unlike Invisibility, that doesn't end after one attack. It's very hard otherwise, unless you spend a lot of feats working on it.
Assuming all 4 arrows hit, the damage from sneak attack (all totaled) will be 15d6, since you only apply it once from the manyshot feat. The damage from the flaming shocking will be 8d6.
The damage from the shortbows (pre-bonuses) will be 4d6.
The bonus damage from strength and the enhancement bonus will be +16.
Each non-manyshot attack will do 1d6 (shortbow) + 3 (Str) + 1 (enhancement) + 2d6 (flaming / shocking) + 5d6 (sneak attack).
If the manyshot attack hits, it will do 2d6 (shortbow) + 6 (str) +1 (enhancement) + 4d6 (flaming / shocking) + 5d6 (sneak attack).
Granted, they probably won't get more than 1 sneak attack per round, if you play it by the rules and don't use Greater Invis.
Sadly if they attack more than once only one attack can be a sneak attack since they lose stealth afterwards. They can however shot and makea steatlh at -20 to stay hidden.
Hmm... in my book, 27d6 + 16 average to 110.5, rather than 93.
Of course, you will have to find a way to get off a full sneak atack volley, (range is 30 feet, and unless you catch the target flat-footed, you will need things like greater invisibility).
Remember that you cannot full attack in a surprise round.
flat bonuses on the bows will increase your DPR way more than those 1d6's
give each of them a scroll of gr. invis. or something otherwise it will be pretty boring:P
Catching something dexless without magic is a lot harder than it sounds past round 1
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If you're concerned about the damage output (and want your Rogues to still utilize their ranged sneak attack option), may I recommend a slight reorganization of feats/abilities?
Skirmisher Rogue gets SA whenever he charges or moves more than 10'/round.
So, these rogues get that archetype.
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus Shortbow, Deadly Aim.
At Rogue 10, that yields BAB 7, so you can take Vital Strike as 9th lvl rogue feat (or 10th level Talent if you haven't used it so far.)
That yields two rogues shooting Sneak Attacks to any targets within 30' so long as the rogue moves at least 10 feet.
If you are restricted in movement, use Vital Strike.
If you have free areas to move in (and/or are hasted or have some other speed buff) use Shot on the Run.
Each will be hitting at 1d6(weapon) + 3(str) +1(enchantment) +2d6(energy enchantments) +5d6 (sneak attack) on every single shot so long as they move.
If they Vital Strike, that adds another 1d6 .
So, 8d6+4 (or +8 if Deadly Aim is used) for an average of 32-36 damage per round, from range, per Rogue.
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Idea: Have the enemy rogues be half-orcs (they have darkvision), catch the party in a situation of normal light, and put an oil of deeper darkness on the first bolt. Drops the light down two levels to ordinary darkness, causing the PCs to be effectively blinded and lose their DEX to AC.
For the same effect, catch them in conditions of dim light and use non-deeper darkness to drop the level one step to darkness.
Sneak Attack is not limited to once a round, you are correct on that point. The point others were trying to make was that you must have a 'condition' that allows you to sneak attack. Flanking is one, and it is easy to flank at all point through a full round melee attack.
However, It is not easy to stay hidden for the entire full round attack. As soon as you make an attack, under normal conditions, you are no longer hidden. Therefore you would not 'normally' continue to get sneak attack damage.
As you and others have pointed out, there are ways to ensure that this happens.
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If a character is engaged in melee and is shot from behind at range. Can they “react” to the attack? I always thought that your Dex bonus was basically due because you were moving around on the balls of your feet so to say bobbing and swaying in combat. If you are focusing on the monster in front that is trying to kill you , you can’t be focusing on what is happening 30 ft behind you.
Losing Dex bonus to AC is not that difficult.
There's no such thing as facing one way or the other in Pathfinder. You can't just hit someone "from behind".
If a character is engaged in melee and is shot from behind at range. Can they “react” to the attack? I always thought that your Dex bonus was basically due because you were moving around on the balls of your feet so to say bobbing and swaying in combat. If you are focusing on the monster in front that is trying to kill you , you can’t be focusing on what is happening 30 ft behind you.
Losing Dex bonus to AC is not that difficult.
There's no such thing as facing one way or the other in Pathfinder. You can't just hit someone "from behind".
Which is to bad...no sneaking up behind that guard...
On the other point of two rogues with melee weapons both flanking an opponent, sounds like a frog in a blender.
They need Seeking on their bows or else Obscuring Mist and countless other low level spells will completely ruin their ability to sneak attack.
I'd give one or two of the frontliners 2 rogue levels and get Distracting Attack talent on them. Let them get into a flank and start feeding the full rogues w/ bows flatfooted enemies.
If a character is engaged in melee and is shot from behind at range. Can they “react” to the attack? I always thought that your Dex bonus was basically due because you were moving around on the balls of your feet so to say bobbing and swaying in combat. If you are focusing on the monster in front that is trying to kill you , you can’t be focusing on what is happening 30 ft behind you.
Losing Dex bonus to AC is not that difficult.
Change to situation to a melee one. The rogues move in behind the PCs flanking him. If they get for example two attacks, they should both be considered sneak attacks, no?
As others have said then there is no such thing as facing in pathfinder, so no matter where they stand and shoot can they flank their target with ranged weapons.
The will give about the same damage as above (if you dual wield weapons in melee) if you are flanking your target, but ofcourse then he also still has dex to ac, and it can then be pretty hard for the rogues to actually hit something with their weapons.
If you really want to do it from ranged, then you basically need greater invis, as obscuring mist will also create concealment and you cant sneak attack through that. Thats why mist is the best way to counter a sneak attacking sniper rogue. He cant sneak attack into a mist.
There are two level 10 Rogues in this party.
I have equipped them with Composite str 3 shortbows, +1, shocking, flaming.
According to the book, a 10th level rogue will typically have spent 4,000 gp on magic weapons. So, you're proposing to give gear typically seen on 16th level NPCs to 10th level NPCs. This is definitely gonna make the fight tougher, significantly tougher. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see crazy big damage.
Give them each one level of oracle (minimum) and have them both take oracle of Waves: water sight. They'd each get a couple of castings of obscuring mist and they see/can shoot through it. That's enough to do it.
Make them rogue5/halfling oportunist5 with enfilading fire teamwork feat both. Then you can flank ranged and get Sneak attack on all A0`s.
Two ratfolk rogues with enfilading fire could also flank with ranged attacl, even standing on the same square.
The first round, if the PCs are flat-footed, all the attacks will sneak attack if they hit. Stealth isn't even required for that.
Now, that's *if* the target is flat-footed. They'd have to roll poorly on initiative or be surprised (NPCs delay their action to the start of the next turn, then full-attack). The mechanics of determining surprise, absent certain abilities, are left to the GM, but typically things like Stealth, Perception and the like come into play to give the PCs a sporting chance. Keep in mind that they'll have to be really close to the PCs to get sneak attack, so that makes it easier for the PCs to notice that something is up. But the question of who is surprised is ultimately up to the GM's analysis of the situation.
After that, the attacks have to hit. Several probably will, especially if the rogues pick soft targets and have the Dex one would expect, and you'll have to be within the first increment as there's a cap on ranged sneak attack distance. The later iterative could miss depending on how soft your targets really are. After all, there is the -2 from Rapid Shot.
If I read it correctly, each rogue shoots four times, with three being subject to sneak attack. If they all hit, that's 27d6+16, average 110.5. Then there are two rogues.
If one rogue's attacks all hit on a target with no energy resistance or DR, well, yeah, that guy's toast. You have a real shot at taking two squishy PCs or one moderately defended PC down past negative Con. (Ooh, make one of them the cleric!) It's up to you to decide if that's a reasonable encounter for your PCs.
+3-equivalent shortbows do seem like a lot of weapon for two level 10 NPC rogues. One bow alone is 150% of a heroic NPC budget, and we don't even know what else they're carrying. So you're firmly in CR+1 recommended territory for one rogue. Both rogues would be a total of CR 9+1+2=12. That doesn't even get into the other members of the rival party. I don't know what level your PCs are, but it's something to keep in mind.
Also, remember what a lying liar CR can be. If two party members have a strong probability of being smashed halfway to chunky salsa before their first turn, it's a pretty hairy situation.
Idea: Have the enemy rogues be half-orcs (they have darkvision), catch the party in a situation of normal light, and put an oil of deeper darkness on the first bolt. Drops the light down two levels to ordinary darkness, causing the PCs to be effectively blinded and lose their DEX to AC.
For the same effect, catch them in conditions of dim light and use non-deeper darkness to drop the level one step to darkness.
Fun fact: You only need normal darkness. Normal darkness negates light sources.
This spell causes an object to radiate darkness out to a 20-foot radius. This darkness causes the illumination level in the area to drop one step, from bright light to normal light, from normal light to dim light, or from dim light to darkness. This spell has no effect in an area that is already dark. Creatures with light vulnerability or sensitivity take no penalties in normal light. All creatures gain concealment (20% miss chance) in dim light. All creatures gain total concealment (50% miss chance) in darkness. Creatures with darkvision can see in an area of dim light or darkness without penalty. Nonmagical sources of light, such as torches and lanterns, do not increase the light level in an area of darkness. Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.
That's true. But how often are adventurers outside :p Though If you are planning an ambush, and you rely on darkness, you really should plan the ambush at night.