Got a ogrekin in the works trying to put it together I want him to be a ranger or something similar. Gunslinger crossed my mind but that's a bit to evil.
Anyways my question is oversized limb + Gravity Bow on a heavy crossbow or a double crossbow. What dies am I looking at?
Also any advice will be wonderful.
I have reconsidered this build and I'm thinking zen archer with a composite longbow use that strength bones.
Anyways it's a 1d8 normal but with oversized limbe and gravity bow what would this add up to a +4 large composite Gravitybow
Damage would act one size category higher being huge if i am correct.
This would make it 3d6 I believe.
Sorry for the change in plans. If anyone else has any comments or recommendations I'm open to them.
Thanks for taken the time to read this.
I shudder to think how one would manage to use that without floating several feet off the ground.
I shudder to think how one would manage to use that without floating several feet off the ground.
Use what?
Only one limb is oversized, so the Bow would take a penalty.
I shudder to think how one would manage to use that without floating several feet off the ground.Use what?
A bow significantly longer than you are tall.
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Actually, as the excavation of the Mary Rose shows, English Longbowmen had differing arm sizes. Took a bit of Googling, but I watched an awesome History Channel show on this topic, and it showed a reconstruction of their physiology, showing that they looked a bit like Fiddler Crabs (OK, not THAT extreme...). They had massive shoulders, with extra ligament, muscle and tendon build-up, as well as thicker left elbows for stability.
Quote: "Others showed an asymmetry of the right shoulder but also the left elbow. Through
comparisons made with the arm bones recovered from the Mary Rose {together with longbows, from the wreck, of
estimated draw-weights up to 170 pounds), the conclusion was that here were archers. In right-handed archers the
left arm must remain straight, whereas the right arm carries the weight of bow and arrow as well as taking up the
draw strain of the string: this appears to lead to a build-up of muscle and bone on the right shoulder joint and of
bone on the left elbow (pp.108-9)."
http://www.richardiii.net/PDFS/blood_red_roses_white_review.pdf.pdf
-Uriel
Whilst I am sure we all appreciate the historical lesson that says the arms were slightly different sizes, we could say the same thing about just about anyone walking the face of the planet - the dominant arm is probably biger than the less dominant one, and we see this even more clearly in various sports etc.
What they didn't have was an Ogre sized arm and a normal human one.
We are referring to Size, not size.
In this case the two arms of the Ogre are different Sizes.
I am an archer (recurve bows) and the arm holding the bow is not really that relevant as far as strength. It just needs to be able to hold the bow steady. The draw arm is what requires the most strength. The reason for this is that the bow arm is basically locked into place (slightly bent elbow but mostly straight). After a long day of shooting it is my draw arm that is sore not the bow arm. - Gauss
Whilst I am sure we all appreciate the historical lesson that says the arms were slightly different sizes, we could say the same thing about just about anyone walking the face of the planet - the dominant arm is probably biger than the less dominant one, and we see this even more clearly in various sports etc.
Actually, I believe that most people's dominant hand/arm is weaker than the other. The offhand/arm generally develops increased strength to make up for the lack of finesse and control.
What they didn't have was an Ogre sized arm and a normal human one.
True, but does that matter?
We are referring to Size, not size.
Again, I'm in agreement, but . . . .
Oversized Limb: The ogrekin can wield weapons one size category larger than normal with no penalty and gains a +2 bonus to Str.
Much as I think this idea is retarded, and how I, as a DM, would simply burn any character sheet presented to me with this . . . absurdity, it IS supported by the rules. The text is quite simple. You can wield weapons one size category larger than normal with no penalty. It doesn't say you can only do that with the enlarged arm. Nor does it say the bonus to strength is only granted on checks, attacks, or whatevers that only involve the enlarged limb. Per the RAW, you could have an enlarged left leg and still gain these bonuses when using your bow.
Which is stupid. And I don't think it should be allowed. And further that it should be changed.
Sadly, the purpose of this forum is to assist others in figuring out the rules, not forcing them to accept our preferred changes to the actual written rules. I can certainly hope that Munkir's (hilarious name, by the way. I keep trying to pronounce it as "munchkir" xD ) DM shoots his idea down, or at least changes it to make more logical sense, but there's no requirement that a rule, law, or anything actually MAKE logical sense in this game. It's up to us as players or DMs to take what the actual rules are and make what sense we can out of them, I suppose. I mean, hey, if we try to inject logic into EVERY rule that exists in this game, the game will instantly break down. Using larger weapons in general would wreck an attack bonus, and using bow this large would be logistically impossible.
But whatever. People have fun in different ways, I suppose. If they want a mostrous, disgusting, crab-armed ogre wielding an impossible large longbow so they can pewpew enemies with more alacrity, and that's what brings enjoyment to their day, and it's supported by the rules . . . . . then have fun. :)
P.S. Bah, humbug, on this absurd critter.
Brogue: Dominant hand is not relevant for proper archery. Archery uses dominant eye rather than dominant hand. I am left handed but I have to shoot right handed because I am right eye dominant. If I tried to switch the accuracy would suffer dramatically. Muscles can be more easily trained than eye dominance. - Gauss
Gauss: That's cool and all, and I sincerely appreciate learning that, because I love learning new stuff, but I take it from the tone in your post that you're moderately miffed at some slight you took from my post. If that's really the case, I just want to interject that nothing in my post really related to your first post on this thread. I wasn't disagreeing with any facts you put on there at all. My stint about dominant/off hands was merely a specific response to Shifty's post. I actually forgot to read yours because I went off on such a long tangent after responding to his. ;-)
MY main point is that aesthetics do not matter in this ruling decision. The aesthetics could have an extra arm coming out of your back and that wouldn't affect the ruling decision. We could argue up and down that back muscles are important for archery (they are, right, Gauss? Really guessing here, but I thought they were kinda important), and that an arm there might interfere with it, but that's beside the point, when the point is interpreting the rule, not interpreting the aesthetic value of the items in question.
In response to your unwritten undertones, I'm not saying that an overdeveloped dominant/drawing hand wouldn't work well for an archer. I'm just saying it'll look stupid. :)
But hey, Munkir is probably going to dump charisma, anyway, so no worries. xD
Just out of curiosity, how do you find out which eye is dominant?
Naw, Im not miffed. I tend to be a cold emotionless B%#t%^!. hehehe It was just a comment with no emotion.
Regarding back muscles, you better believe it. Especially true for the draw hand.
Eye dominance:
Pick a point in space such as a mark on a wall.
With both eyes open hold out your hand, thumb up so that the thumbnail covers the point (thumbs up gesture).
Now close one eye and the thumb will appear to move. Switch eyes.
The eye that has the least amount of movement is the dominant eye. If the eye dominance is really strong there wont be any movement at all with the dominant eye (mine doesnt move at all).
I shoot both muzzleloaders and traditional bows (recurve primarily) and eye dominance is more important than hand dominance in both. Luckily, there is an outdoor archery range just two blocks from me so I get a chance to shoot (bow) regularly.
- Gauss
Oh, wow. I am absurdly right-eye dominant, heh. That's neat! Thanks! :)
NP, what is your hand dominance? If they line up you are lucky. - Gauss
Only one limb is bigger so whilst they can use the larger weapon without penalty, the Bows required two hands (as opposed to a straight two handed weapon) as one hand is still normal size, a penalty should still apply.
Its Limb, not Limbs...
So no I wouldn't cop it. There's a difference between 'one arm is bigger than the other' and 'one limb is around eight times the size of the other'.
NP, what is your hand dominance? If they line up you are lucky. - Gauss
Right. :)
Errr . . . as in, not left.
Only one limb is bigger so whilst they can use the larger weapon without penalty, the Bows required two hands (as opposed to a straight two handed weapon) as one hand is still normal size, a penalty should still apply.
Its Limb, not Limbs...
So no I wouldn't cop it. There's a difference between 'one arm is bigger than the other' and 'one limb is around eight times the size of the other'.
I dunno, Much as I think this idea is retarded, and how I, as a DM, would simply burn any character sheet presented to me with this . . . absurdity, it IS supported by the rules. The text is quite simple. You can wield weapons one size category larger than normal with no penalty. It doesn't say you can only do that with the enlarged arm. Nor does it say the bonus to strength is only granted on checks, attacks, or whatevers that only involve the enlarged limb. Per the RAW, you could have an enlarged left leg and still gain these bonuses when using your bow.
I (personally) think the job of a GM is to look at RAW and consider RAI. If both you and I see the 'lulz' of having an enlarged left leg helping with using a bow then clearly our RAI triggers are doing their job and the player might need to bring fireproof underpants.
You CAN use oversize weapons with it at no penalty... you have an oversized limb. No one is saying you can't. We're just placing a cap on the other limb.
Anyhow, glad my players don't try that sort of thing on too often :p
I (personally) think the job of a GM is to look at RAW and consider RAI. If both you and I see the 'lulz' of having an enlarged left leg helping with using a bow then clearly our RAI triggers are doing their job and the player might need to bring fireproof underpants.
I agree. But I also believe that it's not really our place to tell the poster what he can or can't do, as based upon our opinion, rather than on actual fact. What we can do is give him the factual ruling to the best of our knowledge and interpretation, which he can take to his DM, so that his DM can better adjudicate the situation and make an informed decision.
. . . We can also hope that the DM shoots him down, but that's not terribly relevant to a rules discussion. ;-)
You CAN use oversize weapons with it at no penalty... you have an oversized limb. No one is saying you can't. We're just placing a cap on the other limb.
That's not explicit in the text. It's open to interpretation, and it honestly leans the other direction. Logically, you're totally right. But logic is not the sole focus of a rule's adjudication. Balance is just as important. We also have to keep in mind that some aesthetic really is just fluff or flavor. The Lightning Reflexes feat doesn't actually give you reflexes the speed of lightning, after all, but no one nitpicks that. Sure, that's an extreme example, but where do you choose to draw the arbitrary line? At an arbitrary point?
Anyhow, glad my players don't try that sort of thing on too often :p
Blah, my group does. I'm glad my GM laughs and says no.
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Eye dominance:
Pick a point in space such as a mark on a wall.
With both eyes open hold out your hand, thumb up so that the thumbnail covers the point (thumbs up gesture).
Now close one eye and the thumb will appear to move. Switch eyes.
The eye that has the least amount of movement is the dominant eye. If the eye dominance is really strong there wont be any movement at all with the dominant eye (mine doesnt move at all).
Off topic to the thread, but I can't tell how to do this. Either I'm focusing on my thumb, in which case I get two images of the wall, or I'm focusing on the wall, in which case I get two images of my thumb...
Off topic to the thread, but I can't tell how to do this. Either I'm focusing on my thumb, in which case I get two images of the wall, or I'm focusing on the wall, in which case I get two images of my thumb...Eye dominance:
Pick a point in space such as a mark on a wall.
With both eyes open hold out your hand, thumb up so that the thumbnail covers the point (thumbs up gesture).
Now close one eye and the thumb will appear to move. Switch eyes.
The eye that has the least amount of movement is the dominant eye. If the eye dominance is really strong there wont be any movement at all with the dominant eye (mine doesnt move at all).
It took me a few minutes to get it to "pop" - focusing on my thumb, with the light switch behind it blurry, rather than doubled. If it matters, the wall was about ten feet away, and my thumb arm was full-extension. (I seem to be left-eye dominant, and I'm right-handed.)