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Found an error for you to fix: you have the greensting scorpion listed as granting a +4 to init, but it's only a +2. Compy is still better :)
Just out of curiosity, did you see something somewhere that says its +2? I checked the PRD and it says +4 as does our site (d20pfsrd) so I want to make sure if you saw a discrepancy somewhere we determine how/why its there.
I noticed two admittedly minor things. First, Communal Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law was under Conjuration in the SRD for some reason, but it is now under the correct heading of Abjuration. It's still under Conjuration for you.
Second, you say nothing stops you from casting both Undead Anatomy IV and Frightful Aspect, but they are both polymorph spells, and the polymorph rules (I know, who reads those?) say you can only have one such spell on you at a time.
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Is it?
The OGC says it's +4. I'll have to go find it in the original source.
It was +2 once, but they've errataed all +2 Initiative Familiars to +4 so they aren't flatly inferior to the +4 ones. Consistency is something the folks at Paizo are aiming for. Missing sometimes, but still aiming for.
I noticed two admittedly minor things. First, Communal Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law was under Conjuration in the SRD for some reason, but it is now under the correct heading of Abjuration. It's still under Conjuration for you.
Second, you say nothing stops you from casting both Undead Anatomy IV and Frightful Aspect, but they are both polymorph spells, and the polymorph rules (I know, who reads those?) say you can only have one such spell on you at a time.
Well, as I was writing the guide I was just going down the list. I probably didn't even think twice about it. There were many times where I had Divination spells erroneously under Abjuration just because I just kept going. I believe that I cut and pasted those sorts of errors into the right places. Thanks for putting out the communal protection placement error out.
As for the polymorph thing... It's pretty obvious that it's not something I do very often. I have a hard time spending my standard actions buffing myself up when I could be doing things that are effective for the whole party - and my ratings of those spells reflects that.
And yeah! Who the heck reads those things? (/embarrassed.)
In my own mind I figured you could just be an undead frightful form (Since undead is also a template added to living creatures in many cases), but as you say, it says right there that you can't have two polymorph effects on you at once.
It was +2 once, but they've errataed all +2 Initiative Familiars to +4 so they aren't flatly inferior to the +4 ones. Consistency is something the folks at Paizo are aiming for. Missing sometimes, but still aiming for.
I like that when it's a caster class, they conform everything upwards, and when it's a mundane class (monk's flurry of blows vs. TWF) they conform everything down to the lowest level.
Please ditch Comic Sans. :(
Please ditch Comic Sans. :(
Heh, so much prejudice toward that font.
I did mention that I copied Treantmonk's guide to keep some of the formatting. That sort of came along with it.
Are there any sources that I am missing that I might include in my guide?
Any other tricks I have overlooked?
Class features or feats?
You could include your opinion on core to make the guide complete.
You could include your opinion on core to make the guide complete.
Heh, I think my opinion would be a little too influenced by treantmonk's.
I dunno though, that's a thought. If I do that I might need to divide the guide accross other documents to avoid it from becoming too slow. It's already pretty laggy as is.
You know what, I think I will. Don't expect it soon, but I think I will do it.
I'm tired of waiting for Treantmonk to complete his guide,If you actually took the time to UNDERSTAND his guide and the reasoning behind his choices instead of just mining it for quick answers, you'd realise that his guide IS complete and you would be able to apply his theory to whatever wizard expansion Paizo or someone else would put out.
All of the supplementary material published after the Core Rules doesn't really change how Wizards work.
Also remember that TM only put out guides for the classes and variants he actually PLAYED and found endearing enough to write about. He wasn't a typical messageboard theoyrcrafter.
He's said before in other threads that he was going to do apg at some point.
The reason I personally write guides is because it forces me to evaluate all the available, and having it written down gives ME a quick reference.
I like Treantmonk because I generally agree with him, and his guide was always useful to remind me of various options I may have forgotten.
In that way it IS incomplete because more than anything seeing ALL of the spell options with the wheat separated from the tares helps you mentally organize things into categories of what you want to accomplish. I have probably spent more time actually reading my guide than writing it. (and sadly, I am not always reading it on a device that lets me edit my mistakes.)
KaptainKrunch,
Are you planning to update your guide with the material from the Advanced Race Guide. I would be curious to see your opinion of the SpellBinder architype and the half elf favorite class bonus as the very least.
+1 to Saint bernards question.
KaptainKrunch,
Are you planning to update your guide with the material from the Advanced Race Guide. I would be curious to see your opinion of the SpellBinder architype and the half elf favorite class bonus as the very least.
I'm not KaptainKrunch, but for those two features--
Half-Elf favored class bonus would be good if it wasn't only duration. As it is, by the time you hit level 3, it is probably more common that you need 3 extra hit points than that you have an enchantment spell where you need an extra time increment--most of the time if you disable them with an enchantment, you disable them for long enough to win the rest of the fight. It could be useful for manipulators trying to juggle an extremely large number of high-duration enchantments, but otherwise I'm not really impressed.
A lot of people online seem enamored with the Spellbinder archetype, and it even appeared in a thread started by someone about what they thought were the top three most overpowered abilities in the ARG. However, I find it to be about on par with a bonded item (slightly weaker, I'd say, though it depends on if you have a nicer than usual spellbook).
The reason is action economy and versatility. With this archetype you get basically 1 spell per spell level and you can switch out any legal spell slot into that spell. If this was spontaneous and instant, like the Preferred Spell and Greater Spell Specialization feats, this would be a very powerful ability. But the fact that it requires a full round action is problematic. Why? Well, what are you going to pick as your solitary spell of each spell level that you can swap into? Probably something you want to cast all the time, and you don't want to spend a full-round action every time to do so, especially in combat (and if you are prepping the spell you can swap into, then you're not using the power). Now, it's true that you can pick a neat out-of-combat utility spell at each level, and then you don't have to prep it ever. Then again, those are usually what you buy scrolls of.
But with Fast Study, you can always just take a minute to prep that utility spell if you keep a slot empty. Often if you have time that a full-round action isn't a major turn-off, then you have a minute. So with Spellbinder, you might be able to leave fewer slots open (but only if you weren't worried you would need something that you didn't pick as a swap spell) or save a little bit of money on scrolls (at the cost of spell slots). With a regular bonded item, you instantly cast any spell you want from your entire library of spells. That's an additional slot per day of up to your highest level and it's extremely flexible, particularly if you have a huge spellbook.
Good Stuff
Thank you for a very balanced evaluation of SpellBinder.
Temporary Resurrection is actually fairly useful if you pair it with a Cleric friend that has Breath of Life prepared as the spell ending (or just whacking the guy to death again if you are impatient) means "the target dies again" which satisfies "died within 1 round", allowing someone to be brought back to life for real and cheep (see down).
A 7th level slot from the Wizard, a 5th level Cleric slot and a 4th level slot from the Cleric and a cost of 1500 GP is a pretty solid option compared to the 12,000 GP resurrection or 7000 GP Raise Dead (which also take longet thanks to the once a week restoration limit).
Temporary resurrection specifically states that the creature counts as a dead body throughout the duration, despite being able to act. Nowhere in the text does it say it counts as having "died" again when the effect ends, so there's not really much ground I can see for breath of life comboing with it by RAW, and I highly doubt that it's RAI either.
A lot of people online seem enamored with the Spellbinder archetype, and it even appeared in a thread started by someone about what they thought were the top three most overpowered abilities in the ARG. However, I find it to be about on par with a bonded item (slightly weaker, I'd say, though it depends on if you have a nicer than usual spellbook).
The reason is action economy and versatility. With this archetype you get basically 1 spell per spell level and you can switch out any legal spell slot into that spell. If this was spontaneous and instant, like the Preferred Spell and Greater Spell Specialization feats, this would be a very powerful ability. But the fact that it requires a full round action is problematic. Why? Well, what are you going to pick as your solitary spell of each spell level that you can swap into? Probably something you want to cast all the time, and you don't want to spend a full-round action every time to do so, especially in combat (and if you are prepping the spell you can swap into, then you're not using the power). Now, it's true that you can pick a neat out-of-combat utility spell at each level, and then you don't have to prep it ever. Then again, those are usually what you buy scrolls of.
But with Fast Study, you can always just take a minute to prep that utility spell if you keep a slot empty. Often if you have time that a full-round action isn't a major turn-off, then you have a minute. So with Spellbinder, you might be able to leave fewer slots open (but only if you weren't worried you would need something that you didn't pick as a swap spell) or save a little bit of money on scrolls (at the cost of spell slots). With a regular bonded item, you instantly cast any spell you want from your entire library of spells. That's an additional slot per day of up to your highest level and it's extremely flexible, particularly if you have a huge spellbook.
What if you consider Spellbinder a mean to partly circumvent restrictions of arcane specialization (which could be really neat for Foresight Wizards)? Once you fill the the specialization slots, you can swap them for your bonded spells :)... What's more, the way the ability reads it enables you to choose spells from opposition schools as bonded spells, which enables you to cherry-pick some spells from these schools (Enervation someone?).
Seems pretty solid to me, especially taking into consideration a fact, that if you really want, you can still get access to Arcane bond via Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline).
You say the Psychopomp Nosoi can't UMD, and on the surface, it isn't described as having hands. However, they are explicitly stated as acting as Pharasma's scribes, which implies at least some proficiency in wand-like objects and pieces of parchment. I'd let them use those devices.
I think you are being too harsh on the non-Int races. I made a Dwarven Earth wizard, and I have to say he was very effective. Having free proficiency with a battleaxe was fun in the lower levels when I needed to beat off an offensive goblin and not waste a spell...Getting a free +1/+1 with melee attacks comes in handy.
Also, Stone Call IMO is a solid spell. HUGE radius, and no save.
KaptainKrunch,
Are you planning to update your guide with the material from the Advanced Race Guide. I would be curious to see your opinion of the SpellBinder architype and the half elf favorite class bonus as the very least.
RogueEidolon gave some good suggestions here. I definitely think Bonded Item is more powerful than Spellbinder though. Bonded Item the perfect contingency and doesn't take up any extra time to use. Spell Binder eats up your turns if you end up "needing" it in combat. In my opinion you should look to the many other options Wizards have - like Fast Study, Greater Spell Specialization, or Preferred Spell - to fit the need of single spell contingencies.
And I simply don't like the Half-Elf favored class bonus. I think it's weaker than all of the other favored class bonuses.
As far as me updating my guide. I might.
I need to edit my guide first of all, every time I read it I keep finding language that I feel doesn't convey the information clearly enough.
Just so you know, I have done a core evaluation as well, which can be found in this PDF.
If I do do any updates, it'll probably be to the complete guide.
Temporary resurrection specifically states that the creature counts as a dead body throughout the duration, despite being able to act. Nowhere in the text does it say it counts as having "died" again when the effect ends, so there's not really much ground I can see for breath of life comboing with it by RAW, and I highly doubt that it's RAI either.Temporary Resurrection is actually fairly useful if you pair it with a Cleric friend that has Breath of Life prepared as the spell ending (or just whacking the guy to death again if you are impatient) means "the target dies again" which satisfies "died within 1 round", allowing someone to be brought back to life for real and cheep (see down).
A 7th level slot from the Wizard, a 5th level Cleric slot and a 4th level slot from the Cleric and a cost of 1500 GP is a pretty solid option compared to the 12,000 GP resurrection or 7000 GP Raise Dead (which also take longet thanks to the once a week restoration limit).
Good catch.
As far as False Focus goes, it sounds pretty cool, but I'm not sure it's worth a feat without making a list of spells that would benefit from it.
Nowhere in the text does it say it counts as having "died" again when the effect endsLike say... "the target dies again"?
It seems pretty RAW to me. Nothing in Breath of Life requires the target have been alive when they died in the last round, just that they died in the last round.
It possibly isn't RAI, but the same is true for half of an optimized Wizard's stables.
Geeze...
Alright, I'll mention it as a "If your DM says yes" factor.
It turns out that most of the time when I say that in my guides that the DM is most likely going to say no.
What if you consider Spellbinder a mean to partly circumvent restrictions of arcane specialization (which could be really neat for Foresight Wizards)? Once you fill the the specialization slots, you can swap them for your bonded spells :)... What's more, the way the ability reads it enables you to choose spells from opposition schools as bonded spells, which enables you to cherry-pick some spells from these schools (Enervation someone?).
Seems pretty solid to me, especially taking into consideration a fact, that if you really want, you can still get access to Arcane bond via Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline).
Man... Eldrtich Heritage is popular around here...
Greater Spell Specialization and Preferred spell can do the same thing, and those feats aren't as expensive as Eldritch Heritage. Like, seriously, Eldritch Heritage is really tough for Wizards to pull off thanks to the Charisma requirement, and I don't think the trade-off is worth it most of the time.
Opposition Research is also a good way to cherry pick some spells from your opposition schools. Kind of like how a chainsaw to a cherry tree is a great way to cherry pick.
I simply don't think it's better than the regular Arcane Bond. The spontaneous contingency from Item Bond or the extra actions from Familiar are unique features that can't be (easily) duplicated by feats. Spellbinding is something that the Wizard essentially already had through the feats I mentioned.
I did just double check the Arcane Bond through Eldritch Heritage option... It does take only 2 feats and 13 Charisma to get your arcane bond back, which doesn't seem too bad... Feats though are so terribly sparse for Wizards, and the full round action to swap spells vs. using Preferred spell makes me think that you're still better off with regular Arcane Bond.
I'm tired of waiting for Treantmonk to complete his guide, so I went ahead and took on the challenge.
As far has TM was concerned his guide WAS complete. If you took the trouble to understand the theory behind his guide instead of taking it as a source of spoonfed answers, you'd realise that you could apply the logic to any supplement put out by Paizo or any other third party. Because while spells and ablities may change and accumulate, the breakdown of what they do really doesn't change.
So yes, your work may be fine, but you don't get any extra points for your gratuitous snark on the person who pioneered it.
I'm sure that Treantmonk wouldn't be offended by my "gratuitous snark" as it wasn't intended to be so.
You say the Psychopomp Nosoi can't UMD, and on the surface, it isn't described as having hands. However, they are explicitly stated as acting as Pharasma's scribes, which implies at least some proficiency in wand-like objects and pieces of parchment. I'd let them use those devices.
I did see that. I suppose like anything it depends on the DM.
I think you are being too harsh on the non-Int races. I made a Dwarven Earth wizard, and I have to say he was very effective. Having free proficiency with a battleaxe was fun in the lower levels when I needed to beat off an offensive goblin and not waste a spell...Getting a free +1/+1 with melee attacks comes in handy.
Also, Stone Call IMO is a solid spell. HUGE radius, and no save.
Didn't I rate Stone Call blue?
And as far as the non-int races, I think I also did mention that me not rating them was a "Cop-out".
At the time I was eager to move on to other parts of the guide I was more interested in. Now that the Advanced Race Guide is out and has given all these races alternate favored class bonuses, I suppose if I do come back to my guide to work on it that I'll have to go over the core races at least.
Hey KaptainKrunch,
Saw you posting so I thought now was as good a time as ever to reiterate what an awesome resource this is. I consider treantmonk's work as something of a national treasure of the internets. Your work is fast approaching that in my estimation. Sure, you're standing on the shoulders of treantmonk, but that doesn't change the fact that yours is the guide I always check if I want insights on wizard-ness.
As tremendous a resource the original guide was, compiling all that could benefit a wizard and providing a worldview with which to analyze all things wizard; the simple fact remains is that you are the one who put in all the time gathering all the new content together in one place and applying that same worldview (or at least one similar enough that I don't care to spot the differences)
As a result, I check your guide pretty much daily since I always have a wizard in at least one of my games.
So… Anything you need help on for the guide? I feel kind of lame just standing and quivering in fanboy appreciation. Perhaps when I have more time I can help compile the ARG spells or something? *shrugs*
Thanks for your hard work!
~The Chort
Hey KaptainKrunch,
Saw you posting so I thought now was as good a time as ever to reiterate what an awesome resource this is. I consider treantmonk's work as something of a national treasure of the internets. Your work is fast approaching that in my estimation. Sure, you're standing on the shoulders of treantmonk, but that doesn't change the fact that yours is the guide I always check if I want insights on wizard-ness.
As tremendous a resource the original guide was, compiling all that could benefit a wizard and providing a worldview with which to analyze all things wizard; the simple fact remains is that you are the one who put in all the time gathering all the new content together in one place and applying that same worldview (or at least one similar enough that I don't care to spot the differences)
As a result, I check your guide pretty much daily since I always have a wizard in at least one of my games.
So… Anything you need help on for the guide? I feel kind of lame just standing and quivering in fanboy appreciation. Perhaps when I have more time I can help compile the ARG spells or something? *shrugs*
Thanks for your hard work!
~The Chort
Thank you for the appreciation. Once I finished my Complete Wizard Guide I looked over the PDF and thought "175 Pages?!?" When I could (and probably should) be writing that book I've always wanted to write, it's nice to see that there are people benefiting from the work.
As far as anything that can be helped... The biggest thing that's bugging me about the guide is that it does have a desperate need for editing, but I'm going to keep prodding my wife to do it.
If you can help the Pathfinder d20SRD get the ARG spells onto it, that's what I'll end up using to go down the list when I finally get around to it.
What I'm probably going to do if I get to the ARG (It may be a few months unless I get a sudden urge to do it on my upcoming vacation, and that is a possibility) I'm probably going to start with the races and do each racial with a colored rating.
Between taking the CPA exam and trying to find a better job I'm not sure if I'll be able to do it soon. We'll see what happens though.
Hey, Kaptain! You said if I wrote an evaluation to druid wildshaping and animal companions, that you would write a guide on their spells! You have to do that too on top of everything else! ;)
Hey KaptainKrunch,
Saw you posting so I thought now was as good a time as ever to reiterate what an awesome resource this is. I consider treantmonk's work as something of a national treasure of the internets. Your work is fast approaching that in my estimation. Sure, you're standing on the shoulders of treantmonk, but that doesn't change the fact that yours is the guide I always check if I want insights on wizard-ness.
As tremendous a resource the original guide was, compiling all that could benefit a wizard and providing a worldview with which to analyze all things wizard; the simple fact remains is that you are the one who put in all the time gathering all the new content together in one place and applying that same worldview (or at least one similar enough that I don't care to spot the differences)
As a result, I check your guide pretty much daily since I always have a wizard in at least one of my games.
So… Anything you need help on for the guide? I feel kind of lame just standing and quivering in fanboy appreciation. Perhaps when I have more time I can help compile the ARG spells or something? *shrugs*
Thanks for your hard work!
~The Chort
Thank you for the appreciation. Once I finished my Complete Wizard Guide I looked over the PDF and thought "175 Pages?!?" When I could (and probably should) be writing that book I've always wanted to write, it's nice to see that there are people benefiting from the work.
As far as anything that can be helped... The biggest thing that's bugging me about the guide is that it does have a desperate need for editing, but I'm going to keep prodding my wife to do it.
If you can help the Pathfinder d20SRD get the ARG spells onto it, that's what I'll end up using to go down the list when I finally get around to it.
What I'm probably going to do if I get to the ARG (It may be a few months unless I get a sudden urge to do it on my upcoming vacation, and that is a possibility) I'm probably going to start with the races and...
Haha, guess we have that in common. Not exactly sure when/if I'll take the CPA exam, but I'm about to take my auditing final for summer term and I'll wrap up my accounting degree with 3 classes for the fall term. I guess when you've mastered the bookkeeping that is the wizard, what follows is being the bookkeeper in real life. ~.~
Anyway, I'll see what I can do about editing at least. Grammatical editing is my strong suit, but perhaps content editing as well if I'm diligent enough. I assume I just post in here if I come up with a list of corrections/suggestions?
EDIT: Just curious; how are you going to handle ARG spells? The books says that a wizard could learn any of them, but if following PFS rules, you must be of that race to learn the spell. Will ARG spells have a special section? Will you somehow work them into the race section? (Not sure if any of them are important enough to affect your decision of which race you should choose)
EDIT EDIT: Is there a more editing friendly version I could use? Like a pdf where I can add comments or something? Then I could just email it back with my comments and then you could apply or disregard them.
Nice to see another accountant. I actually got my Bachelors in Asian Studies with the intention of becoming a history professor, but 2009 wasn't a very good economy to graduate in.
As far as how I'm going to handle ARG, I'll just put them in with the other spells so you can easily compare them to the same spells of the same level. I will of course include a note, probably in bold, about what Race it's for.
Go to I am pretty sure you can add comments to the online PDF of the Complete Guide
It's mostly grammar that I'm worried about. I use a lot of unnecessary commas. There are a lot of things I'd like to edit for clarity too though. I mainly need to go through it myself and then have a second pair of eyes look at it.
I would be grateful for any comments you make though.
Hey, Kaptain! You said if I wrote an evaluation to druid wildshaping and animal companions, that you would write a guide on their spells! You have to do that too on top of everything else! ;)
I'm only obligated once you actually do your part ;)
This is intresting. I have to give this a deeper look.
Got a hold of my Brother-in-Law's copy of the ARG. Probably not going to do the spells until they're put on the D20PFSRD. Don't really feel like flipping back and forth through the pages - hyperlinks are much faster.
Sort of started the new Race section. Elves only got better with the +2 initiative option. An Elf Diviner at level 20 could have a +16 initiative before considering Dexterity.
To update my opinion on Human, I think it's Blue, but not because of anything the ARG. I was toying with low-level builds and in most cases the Human edged out over the Elf in some of my choices because of the bonus feat. The Spell penetration is nice but really doesn't become useful until past level 8.
Other core races didn't get much to attract me. I've already gone over Ratfolk and a few of the others anyway and I don't think the ratings have changed too much.
It's tough to say that other races can really beat Elf or Human since the Elf get so many things that directly effect what Wizards really want to max out and Humans get that bonus feat.