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A group of PCs are in a magic shop, shopping items.
There are Bracers of Armor +6 which the player does not have enough gold for.
He is wearing Boots of Teleport. He wants to simply grab the Bracers and teleport away, stealing them.
I'm caught, this has not been done before, I have nothing prepared.
What sort of precautions would a magic shop have for theft? Does the customer get to tough and put on the magic item before buying? It is like a video game store, where the merchandise is never put on shelves? Perhaps there are magical wards around, or other anti-theft devices?
It would be nice to get a simple percentage of success based on some factors since the adventure is basically halted until this scenario is figured out.
The shop owner is a level 12 wizard obviously. Smoke them.
Awesome!
Time to bring out the Magic Shop Wizard's retired uber-level NPC party to hunt down the shoplifting PC and extract the 36,000 gps plus an additional 36,000 gps surcharge!
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Curse Wards:
Curse wards are the fantasy world's equivalent of security tags for magic items. These wards are visible only to spells like mage sight and true seeing. The curse wards resonate with other wards in the shop that sells the items, leaving them inert unless an item leaves the shop without the ward first being deactivated.
If an item leaves the confines of the shop without the curse ward being deactivated, it warps the power of the item, turning it into a cursed item. For instance, bracers of armor become bracers of defenselessness. While a remove curse spell will deactivate a curse ward temporarily, it will reactivate the next time the item is used/worn. The only way to permanently remove a curse ward from an item is to dispel it using a curse scriber, a magic item designed to place and remove curse wards.
I'll stat up the curse scriber if you'd like.
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Curse Wards:
Curse wards are the fantasy world's equivalent of security tags for magic items. These wards are visible only to spells like mage sight and true seeing. The curse wards resonate with other wards in the shop that sells the items, leaving them inert unless an item leaves the shop without the ward first being deactivated.
If an item leaves the confines of the shop without the curse ward being deactivated, it warps the power of the item, turning it into a cursed item. For instance, bracers of armor become bracers of defenselessness. While a remove curse spell will deactivate a curse ward temporarily, it will reactivate the next time the item is used/worn. The only way to permanently remove a curse ward from an item is to dispel it using a curse scriber, a magic item designed to place and remove curse wards.
I'll stat up the curse scriber if you'd like.
Consider this idea stolen (pun definitely intended).
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He casts (or has cast) Dimensional Lock to create a secure area holding the most valuable items as often as needed.
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I got beat to the punch by Treppa; anyone with the capitol to run a magic item shop that carries +6 bracers should be able to afford a permanent dimensional anchor / lock on the place. His vault would also be lead-lined. Woe to anyone that thinks he can jack that much gold at one time without repercussions.
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Bracers of Armor +6? Wow. That's 36k, which is (by the normal rules) just about the entire wealth of a 14th level NPC of a PC class. So either the shopekeeper is 15th level plus, or he has some defense suitable to keep 14th level people in line (like the Curse Wards previously mentioned). I mean, having the place locked down vs. teleport is an obvious precaustion, one I'd assume would be well nigh universal in a place like this.
Honestly, there shouldn't be 'shops' with that kind of thing lying around. They should be available for purchase, sure, but only as a paid commission to create the item by the PCs, an item bought directly from the Wizard who created them, or something purchased from retired adventurers who used them.
None of these are 'a magic shop' in the classic sense.
Typically (at least imo) magical items aren't just sitting out on the shelves like a magic mart general store.
Even if it -is- a magic mart general store, the items aren't just sitting there on a shelf. At best there'd be a card saying
Exquisite platinum engraved, Elven Steel bracers enchanted for most excellent protection against nearly any attack.
If the PC wante dto see that item, he'd have to inquire to a clerk. Given the value of that particular item, it'd be someone powerful enough to protect it.
"Of course good master, of course, please come right this way. And forgive me for asking sir but you can of course pay for this?"
I mean I wouldn't just say "no you can't steal it" but it'd be alot of RP (and bluff rolls) getting the guy to even take the item ouch, much less give it to the PC to nab and get out. And don't forget dimensional anchor is just about guaranteed to cover every square inch of the store, and probably a few feet outside too.
And if you -did- steal it, its worth the coin to pay a guy to get it back. Assuming the guy you just robbed wasn't the guy who made it- inwhich case you just pissed off an 18th level wizard. (isn't it triple the bonus to craft? I forget).
Scry and fry? Works great against thieving PC's too.
If they are dead set on trying it, let 'em try it. but it should be nigh on impossible to just wander in and steal that kinda thing and just wander on out with a 'ha ha i ripped off the archmage' t-shirt.
-S
Bracers of Armor +6? Wow. That's 36k, which is
(by the normal rules) just about the entire wealth of a 14th level NPC of a PC class. So either the shopekeeper is 15th level plus, or he has some defense suitable to keep 14th level people in line (like the Curse Wards previously mentioned). I mean, having the place locked down vs. teleport is an obvious precaustion, one I'd assume would be well nigh universal in a place like this.
Or the shop is cooperated effort of multiple lower level NPCs, or belongs to local government, or is just run by a non-adventuring NPC that is not bound by wealth by level rules (or rich merchants being much rarer than in real world). Either way the PC made an enemy of physically not exactly menacing threat by the one that has lost of money and influence that can be used to send guards, bounty hunters and adventuring parties after the offender just to save face and good reputation.
Honestly, there shouldn't be 'shops' with that kind of thing lying around. They should be available for purchase, sure, but only as a paid commission to create the item by the PCs, an item bought directly from the Wizard who created them, or something purchased from retired adventurers who used them.
None of these are 'a magic shop' in the classic sense.
Really it depends upon particular world, place of world, style of game, etc. Not everyone campaigns is gritty low magic.
Curse Wards:
Curse wards are the fantasy world's equivalent of security tags for magic items. These wards are visible only to spells like mage sight and true seeing. The curse wards resonate with other wards in the shop that sells the items, leaving them inert unless an item leaves the shop without the ward first being deactivated.
If an item leaves the confines of the shop without the curse ward being deactivated, it warps the power of the item, turning it into a cursed item. For instance, bracers of armor become bracers of defenselessness. While a remove curse spell will deactivate a curse ward temporarily, it will reactivate the next time the item is used/worn. The only way to permanently remove a curse ward from an item is to dispel it using a curse scriber, a magic item designed to place and remove curse wards.
I'll stat up the curse scriber if you'd like.
Sounds like they are more valuable than the bracers.
I'd steal the wands!:)
Sounds like they are more valuable than the bracers.
I'd steal the wands!:)
The wards are nothing more than invisible magical glyphs inscribed on magic items to warp their magical properties. They can't be "stolen" per say, and I don't think a shop owner would keep the curse scriber out where anyone could get it.
Just to point out that obvious, bracers of armor provide an armor bonus that does not stack with other armor bonuses. I'm not sure what class the PC is. If he wears lots of armor (or magical armor), the bracers might not help much.
What would I, as the GM, do in this situtaion?
Hmm...
So, the PC wants to steal... Yes, and...
Let the player have the bracers. Maybe the person that owns the magic shop thought, "No one is dumb enough to steal from someone that has access to this much magic..." Enter the PC...
After the bracers are stolen, have the shop owner question the other PCs in the group. Start with the obvious: "What is the name of the guy that just teleported out of here without paying for the merchandise he just stole?" Are the other PCs cooperative or not? More on that later...
After a few adventures, make sure to point out that there are posters of the thieving PC in many places, including all other magic shops. These magic shops refuse to do business with the PC. They won't buy or sell from him. He should be immediately escorted out of any magic shop. Better yet, he shouldn't be allowed inside any magic shop.
Oh, the posters are not wanted posters. There's no reward offered for the apprehension of the PC. The posters have an image of the PC and mention the theft of magical bracers worth 36,000 gp. The poster also mentions that the PC has boots of teleportation.
So now, everyone who has seen the poster knows that the PC is walking around with "phat loot". Other people might be interested in stealing the bracers and boots now. Also, there's a good chance that any of the PC's enemies might have also seen these posters and are now aware of the PC's magical capabilities. "Oh, he can teleport and he has bracers give him armor... I see!"
If the other PCs in the group refused to answer questions after the initial theft, their descriptions should be on all the posters as well, but it should specify that they are friends of the thief and not accomplices. Some other magic shop...
Really like this idea cant be the first time an idiot trie dto rob a magic shop blind
I believe Shackled City AP has a nice description of security precautions at Skie's, but I'm at work where I can't look it up.
Just to point out that obvious, bracers of armor provide an armor bonus that does not stack with other armor bonuses. I'm not sure what class the PC is. If he wears lots of armor (or magical armor), the bracers might not help much.
What would I, as the GM, do in this situtaion?
Hmm...
So, the PC wants to steal... Yes, and...
Let the player have the bracers. Maybe the person that owns the magic shop thought, "No one is dumb enough to steal from someone that has access to this much magic..." Enter the PC...
After the bracers are stolen, have the shop owner question the other PCs in the group. Start with the obvious: "What is the name of the guy that just teleported out of here without paying for the merchandise he just stole?" Are the other PCs cooperative or not? More on that later...
After a few adventures, make sure to point out that there are posters of the thieving PC in many places, including all other magic shops. These magic shops refuse to do business with the PC. They won't buy or sell from him. He should be immediately escorted out of any magic shop. Better yet, he shouldn't be allowed inside any magic shop.
Oh, the posters are not wanted posters. There's no reward offered for the apprehension of the PC. The posters have an image of the PC and mention the theft of magical bracers worth 36,000 gp. The poster also mentions that the PC has boots of teleportation.
So now, everyone who has seen the poster knows that the PC is walking around with "phat loot". Other people might be interested in stealing the bracers and boots now. Also, there's a good chance that any of the PC's enemies might have also seen these posters and are now aware of the PC's magical capabilities. "Oh, he can teleport and he has bracers give him armor... I see!"
If the other PCs in the group refused to answer questions after the initial theft, their descriptions should be on all the posters as well, but it should specify that they are friends of the thief and not accomplices. Some other magic shop...
I think this is a good way to go if you've already established that for some reason the +6 bracers are just sitting out on a shelf.
Sure, he steals them.
But the PCs he's abandoned? If the shopkeeper has +6 bracers for sale, the shopkeeper likely has any number of defenses that can activate--he instantly summons monsters to restrain them, or captures them in a force cage, or whatever.
And then yeah -- they are now criminals. Entire town will treat them as such. No one will agree to craft magic items for them or let them into their store. A shopekeeper with +6 bracers for sale also should have various feather tokens and other objects that will allow him to communicate with colleagues all over the country, warning them about the thief, if he wants to.
But I also otherwise agree with the other posts--a +6 set of bracers shouldn't be sitting out in plain sight. More like in an extradimensional space that is accessed by a door that opens only at the shopkeeper's touch, and he knows the code to call the item to his hand immediately.
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Or the shop is cooperated effort of multiple lower level NPCs, or belongs to local government, or is just run by a non-adventuring NPC that is not bound by wealth by level rules (or rich merchants being much rarer than in real world). Either way the PC made an enemy of physically not exactly menacing threat by the one that has lost of money and influence that can be used to send guards, bounty hunters and adventuring parties after the offender just to save face and good reputation.
My point wasn't that the owner needed to be high level, it was that your average 14th level character could double their resources by stealing the item, and are likely the only people who want such an item, and thus if the shop owner isn't at least that powerful, he'd still have some serious anti-theft measures designed to stop 14th to 16th level characters in place. They wouldn't necessarily be set up by the shop owner, who might be a 4th level Expert, you're quite right, but they'd still be in place. I mean, if I'm gonna sell that stuff, I'm gonna be prepared for the kind of thieves it'll attract.
Really it depends upon particular world, place of world, style of game, etc. Not everyone campaigns is gritty low magic.
Mine sure aren't! I'm not talking low-magic, I'm talking "This is a customized, high priced, item they don't just sell those out of a market stall." You don't buy a Stradivarius, or missile launcher, from a grocery store. Or anything that looks or behaves like a grocery store.
The magic items could have Runes of Returning, where the shop owner can say a command word and the stolen item along with whom ever took the item is teleported back to the shop owner. There would be a welcoming committee waiting for the thief, probably members of the local thieves guild whom the shop keeper has paid protection money to. Of course they would all have high initiative bonuses and all be standing around the spot where the miscreant is going to teleport in to.
Alternatively, the shop owner should be able to scry the location of the stolen item and bring his goon squad directly to the thief. Again, with the intent of killing the thief before he gets the chance to activate his teleport. With scrying they could wait until the thief went to sleep.
A third way would be to let the local thieves know the item was stolen and that the shop keeper (who pays protection money) will give a reward for its return. If the item is to be sold on the black market, the thieves guild would find out. They then pose as buyers and steal the item back when they ask to examine the item to determine it's authenticity. They then exact vengeance on the miscreant for trying to steal from a protected merchant and for not giving the thieves guild a cut of the action.
And of course, OOC the DM can explain the WBL system, and that if the PC does manage to steal something that valuable, there’s be no loot for a very long time.
Sure, but the DM also has to make sure wealth doesn’t break the campaign. WBL is a guideline, not a hard and fast rule. But a Staff of Power might just cause a lot of problems in a low level game.
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IMC, magic items vendors don't have shops, they have offices. You come in during business hours and ask what sort of items they have available. They go over their inventory with you. All the items are kept in secret off-site locations. If you are interested in the item, you make an appointment for purchase. This gives you the time to liquidize your assets and gives the dealer some time to arrange security for the transportation of the item and overseeing the transaction.
In fact, my PCs have been hired to provide this security from time to time, so they are familiar with how the system works. I see this as similar to buying an extremely valuable piece of jewelry in the modern world. It is does more has a business transaction than a standard retail purchase.
That said, I moved in this direction because I used to have magic item shops and they are almost irresistible lures to PCs. Soooo muuuch loooot!
Either let him steal the item and pay the consequences. You can hired some pretty big guns for less than $36,000. How high level would the PCs have to be before they turned down $36,000 to go after a thief with a few friends?
If you rather not go that way, I think it is reasonable that the magic items on the shelf are proxies. Those Bracers of Armor +6 are actually a pair of (masterwork) bracers with a magic aura spell on them. Sort of like a DVD or video game store displaying blank cases. You mention you wish to buy the bracers and you are led into the back room (without the rest of your party) and the transaction is done with ample security. It is just the only way to justify having that much loot sitting out on shelves.
Curse Wards:
Curse wards are the fantasy world's equivalent of security tags for magic items. These wards are visible only to spells like mage sight and true seeing. The curse wards resonate with other wards in the shop that sells the items, leaving them inert unless an item leaves the shop without the ward first being deactivated.
If an item leaves the confines of the shop without the curse ward being deactivated, it warps the power of the item, turning it into a cursed item. For instance, bracers of armor become bracers of defenselessness. While a remove curse spell will deactivate a curse ward temporarily, it will reactivate the next time the item is used/worn. The only way to permanently remove a curse ward from an item is to dispel it using a curse scriber, a magic item designed to place and remove curse wards.
I'll stat up the curse scriber if you'd like.
This is the simplest solution. And the curse scribers should either be something very hard to steal or should be hidden--or both. Perhaps the clerk's extremely heavy desk is the curse scriber, and he quietly activates it whenever he sells an item. Nobody is the wiser, and good luck fitting that into a bag of holding! ;D
^ First, where do you get the 9th-level rule? I'm actually curious. Second, whoever makes items like bracers of armor +6 for the shop (whether or not they're the owner) probably also enchants the items as he provides them. Third, they probably only enchant the especially valuable ones--no point in protecting every gray ioun stone. What kind of idiot uses teleportation to steal cheap trinkets? And fourth, you're assuming this shop has a sh*tload of items. What is this, the Bazaar of the Bizarre?
Also, I think we should stop telling the GM he ran the shop wrong. If only because it's probably too late now and it's not the point of the thread. :P
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Great ideas here. I love the "curse ward" and "curse scriber" idea. That's exactly the sort of solution that would be created for a magical world.
You could go even further and have the "curse ward" item have a version of "instant summons" that ignores whether the item is in the possession of a person and simply teleports the item back at will. Now the thief is revealed as a thief, but has nothing but a reputation to show for his action.
You could go even further and have the "curse ward" item have a version of "instant summons" that ignores whether the item is in the possession of a person and simply teleports the item back at will. Now the thief is revealed as a thief, but has nothing but a reputation to show for his action.
Then the trick is to fence the item before it gets recalled.
Magic Shop...
A place to go to get minor items and have other items commissioned...but sure let him steal them...the wizard that has them there on consignment is level 20...also, since he made them he can automatically scrye them...
If I were running Shop and save the One stop Magic shop I'd make all my merchandise "on display" illusionary. Exact duplicates of real items I have for sale, but the real ones are stored securely through any number of ways. A permanent secret chest being the most secure I think.
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This should do it Teleport Trap.
Just have it redirect into the pit of a thousand pointy daggers soaked in poison filled with magical acid that only dissolves flesh.
Then I think by classic D&D lore if the buildings mortar has been mixed with Gorgon blood it prevents dimensional transport through. So if you make your will save you still don't get very far. Dimensional Lock as also mentioned, but gorgan blood is cooler
For everyone saying teleport trap keep in mind that their are good reasons to teleport out of a shop it would not do to send all of them to their deaths.
Unless you put up a warning sign.
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Isn't that one way that the magic shop obtains magic items?
*innocent look*
Ya know, Ed Greenwood created people like Elminster, the Seven Sisters, Larloch, etc. for a reason: There is ALWAYS someone more powerful than you, and there are just some people that you don't mess with.
If you ever actually find a traditional shop full of powerful magic items, you can bet your sweet ass that the owner is one of these sorts of people.
>Rogue steals magic bracers of armor +6 and teleports away (let's pretend that there was no Dimensional Anchor, just for giggles).
>Rogue is about to celebrate his success when a voice behind him says, "Those'll be 36,000 gold, if ye don't mind."
>Rogue freaks out, turns around, and there leaning on a tree, is the shop owner! Rogue goes to make a move, but fails his will-save and is suddenly frozen in place. Gotta love that quickened/silent/stilled/heightened Hold Person cast by an epic level caster.
>TL;DR - Shop owner gets his money or the Rogue won't be a playable character by the end of the "encounter."
Ya know, Ed Greenwood created people like Elminster, the Seven Sisters, Larloch, etc. for a reason: There is ALWAYS someone more powerful than you, and there are just some people that you don't mess with.
If you ever actually find a traditional shop full of powerful magic items, you can bet your sweet ass that the owner is one of these sorts of people.
>Rogue steals magic bracers of armor +6 and teleports away (let's pretend that there was no Dimensional Anchor, just for giggles).
>Rogue is about to celebrate his success when a voice behind him says, "Those'll be 36,000 gold, if ye don't mind."
>Rogue freaks out, turns around, and there leaning on a tree, is the shop owner! Rogue goes to make a move, but fails his will-save and is suddenly frozen in place. Gotta love that quickened/silent/stilled/heightened Hold Person cast by an epic level caster.
>TL;DR - Shop owner gets his money or the Rogue won't be a playable character by the end of the "encounter."
I can understand your POV.
But, to me, it seems that you are tossing away so many role playing oppurtunities here.You could use an arrest warrent presented to a LG/LN/LE party member.
Hired mercenaries to track them down.
A geas to have him earn the money.
Trouble with an organized crime family.
Give them all the rope they can carry.
I can understand your POV.
But, to me, it seems that you are tossing away so many role playing oppurtunities here.
You could use an arrest warrent presented to a LG/LN/LE party member.
Hired mercenaries to track them down.
A geas to have him earn the money.
Trouble with an organized crime family.
Give them all the rope they can carry.
You could, but I'm under the impression that any GM that cares about role-playing isn't going to just have "Ye Olde Magic Shop" full of ridiculously expensive things just hangin out along the street, ya know? If we're worried about roleplaying, you're not shopping for your gear; you're finding/earning it. ;)
This also seems like a blow against his alignment too, especially if he is lawful.
Look at real-world jewelry stores do they stock the 'good' stuff like the local convenience store? Do you think that cloaks of resistance would kept out on racks like shirts at a department store?
These are a high value goods and every store owner will know they are high value targets. You might be able to lift a potion of jump unseen but such a high value item isn't gonna be left out unattended.
Does the player honestly think they are first to hit on this novel concept of theft? I'm sure the owner has seen this plan and many more like it.
There will be guards, seen and unseen. Precautions against teleportation. Various detection spells being used.
If I was running such a store I would make sure that I got a personal item or better yet a lock of hair etc. so that scrying would be easier, before I let them handle the merchandise.
The building would have continual dimension lock on it. There would be several large burly guards. There would be an apprentice at the door who would check everyone's auras looking for illusions and anything else that might be suspicious. Every item in the place will have an arcane mark on it, which will be removed when the item is paid for. New customers will be highly scrutinized before allowing them to fondle the items. The business owner has a lot tied up in his reputation so there is little reason for the owner to try and cheat customers, so taking items for a 'test drive' would probably not be normal.
It might still be possible to do a smash and dash at such an establishment, but does the player not think there won't be retribution. They might even spend more than the item is worth to hunt him down to make him an example for other would-be thieves.
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Curse Wards
Brilliant sir. Brilliant. Don't tell my ref, mind you, but brilliant. So using this in my next campaign.
No no no...
No magic shop is going to stock anything above a minor item in shop inventory. Rare and expensive items would be held at a magic auction house under high level security. These items would be in high demand from adventurers and the wealthy and would only be available by auction to the highest bidder. Just getting a seat at the auction might require a vast personal fortune, passing a background check, and personal endorsement by someone powerful (if the PCs are not world powers themselves by now).
And while it IS possible to rob the item while it is shown on display, don't count on any magic boots to teleport you anywhere but into a special holding cell. Big names trade for high level magic items and many of them unscrupulous. Just becoming known as someone who attempted to rip one off is likely to place a bounty on his head that may even extend extra-planer if the auction house was influential enough. Since the character was too poor to afford the item anyway it is likely his attempt would land him dead and his soul trapped. Souls are good currency when dealing with fiends.
Yes, many posters here have given the right answer. If you go into a modern day high end jewelry shop, you can’t just pick up that diamond rolex and run away with it. It’s in a case, they bring it out in a room, etc.
The shop is actually a Demiplane (9th level version) with so many options for guards/traps/etc. Espically with the permanent magic option of that spell.