What are some spells that aren't necessarily optimal for too many situations, but tend to work better than advertised?
I'd like to start off by mentioning "Speak with Dead". I took this with my oracle for flavor purposes and Ive been casting it almost every day.
There's nothing better than an interrogation spell that doesn't require the prisoner to be alive when you use it. Kill first, ask questions later.
The best part is is that RAW suggests you can use it on the same corpse a week later. So if you don't get all your questions answered you can put Murray's skull in your haversack and check him out the next weekend.
Love this spell.
Spells like Speak with.... depend on the DM running the game. I had a DM who completely made speak with animals useless due to animals having a low int score. You wanted to ask that dog if it saw something, it would start begging for beggin-Strips.
I believe in the same session we tried Speak with dead on a recent murder victim to ask who the killer was. Since this was going off the settings interpretation of death as seen by the DM, the victim could have cared less that she died. She was just waiting to get dragged to heaven and was very apathetic about the who death thing.
Explosive runes, put a sticky note with an arrow on it pointing to the rune. You might read it just out of pure reflex. :p
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"WHAT'S IN THE BOX?! I CAN'T READ! OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY YUMYUYMMMUYMUYUM.... IT'S BACON!!"
Silent Image remains the best low level spell for the imaginative.
Prestidigitation is amazing. You can completely clean yourself which is nice for anything from not catching filth related diseases to making yourself presentable for a surprise visit from the king. Temporarily change the color of an object. Clean house. Influence the flavour and aroma of food. An almost complete stage magic show including small lights, floating objects, and making small fake coins appear from behind someone's ear (along with anything else you can think of as long as it looks cheap and obviously fake). Hell you can even preserve food or keep it warm indefinitely as long as you're willing to recast the spell every hour, on the hour. Nothing too impressive by itself but when combined with other cantrips it can make for an impressive entrance, or aide a bardic friend's performance enough to get you out of that port town before the pirate captain you snubbed figures out which dockside inn you're staying in.
Explosive runes, put a sticky note with an arrow on it pointing to the rune. You might read it just out of pure reflex. :p
Heh, explosive runes is a fun one in general.
I should look into trying that one a little bit.
And, Yeah, it's true that it depends on the GM. GOOD GMs will award the use of lesser lauded spells though.
Also, your post reminded me about a little exploit with Explosive Runes. It looks like the wording suggests that you can't do this by yourself because the last line starts with "Another Creature", but theoretically you could prepare a pillow case full of Explosive Runes - like 40 runes - and then after placing it next to a victim you have someone intentionally fail a greater dispel magic in the area of the sack, which would cause it to explode for 240d6 damage.
Prestidigitation is amazing. You can completely clean yourself which is nice for anything from not catching filth related diseases to making yourself presentable for a surprise visit from the king. Temporarily change the color of an object. Clean house. Influence the flavour and aroma of food. An almost complete stage magic show including small lights, floating objects, and making small fake coins appear from behind someone's ear (along with anything else you can think of as long as it looks cheap and obviously fake). Hell you can even preserve food or keep it warm indefinitely as long as you're willing to recast the spell every hour, on the hour. Nothing too impressive by itself but when combined with other cantrips it can make for an impressive entrance, or aide a bardic friend's performance enough to get you out of that port town before the pirate captain you snubbed figures out which dockside inn you're staying in.
This this a thousand times this, I forgot all about Prestidigitation, the spell worth dipping wizard 1 for, no matter your build!
This this a thousand times this, I forgot all about Prestidigitation, the spell worth dipping wizard 1 for, no matter your build!
As long as you already have spells, but not Prestidigitation, it's better to use the "Two-World Magic" trait instead :)
And other classes might be better of with an item that grants them continious prestidigitation or something, which isn't super expensive.
I had a barbarian for whom I made a custom item of Prestidigitation at will, and for the rest of the campaign I used it to represent his sword gaining intelligence and learning to express itself through minor effects. The sword is happy? It glows green and hums slightly. It's angry/there are chosen enemies nearby? It glows red and begins to smoke slightly. The sword is particularly bloodthirsty? When it kills a creature, it absorbs some of their blood and becomes shinier for an hour.
Best item I ever made.
I just discovered Calcific touch. I dismissed the spell as useless when I first read it, but I can see how dealing no-save Dexterity damage could be useful in many situations - especially to one or two-shot powerful enemies with low dex (like Oozes, huge dragons, Purple Worms, etc...). Proably best combined with Reach Spell, though.
Oh MAN. Why does the Magus have to be level 18 before he can enjoy this!
A soul draining Familiar comes to mind with this spell though.
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Message. At low levels it's invaluable, because it's like having walkie-talkie communication with the entire party.
Feather fall. You know that boulder the enemy just fired at you? Not a problem.
Feather fall. You know that boulder the enemy just fired at you? Not a problem.
A thrown boulder qualifies as a "ranged weapon" which the spell description says it will not affect. If it's just a boulder falling off a mountain, the spell causes it to do half damage.
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Goodberry. Barely ever prepared or mentioned, but the amazing thing about it is its duration. You can easily stockpile hundreds of goodberries by mid-high levels- even more if your game includes significant downtime.
Perks-
1. 8HP of out of combat healing for the party every day, including days where you didn't prep it and your just running from your stockpile. The average whack of the CL1 CLW stick heals an average of 5-6 points of damage and is random, for the cost of 15GP a pop. Goodberries are free and are not random- heal 8 points of damage on your party a day and save yourself 60+GP on wand charges (dependent on size of party).
2. 8HP of out of combat healing for pretty much anyone you meet.
3. This includes effective downed villain management. CLW on an enemy and risk putting him to 1HP or more where he could possibly do something to escape, or use Goodberries to put him to 0 (Disabled) for questioning?
4. No need to pack food.
I thought the OP was about "underrated" spells. Prestidigitation is, if anything, the single most OVERRATED spell in the game. The tomes written on these boards about the sheer awesomeness of prestidigitation could fill the Library of Congress. Yeah, it's a good spell. But underrated it is not.
My picks:
"Guidance." Forget about boosting an attack roll, it is far more useful as a free +1 to just about any skill check done by anyone in the party. At will. All day long.
"Mending." Incredible spell. Had to cut your rope up to tie up a prisoner, but now need a full 50' of rope to climb down a hole? No problem. Somebody sundered your shield? Good as new. Rust monster wrecked your armor? Fix 1d4 hit points per round and remove the broken condition.
One of the spells I used to see used a lot in a variety of situations is "gust of wind." Everyone asks "how do you deal with swarms?" Gust 'em. Clears out obscuring mists, smokes and will push back small flying creatures. I don't know the last time I've seen a PC use the spell.
"Stone Shape" can be used to create arrow slits through walls into rooms to soften up the opposition as you break or knock down the door.
"Flaming Sphere" is an amazingly useful low level spell.
UPDATE: I will second "Goodberry". My druid never starts an adventure without a bunch of goodberries she cast with the "extend" spell. She carries at least 50 into any dungeon...
Feather fall. You know that boulder the enemy just fired at you? Not a problem.A thrown boulder qualifies as a "ranged weapon" which the spell description says it will not affect. If it's just a boulder falling off a mountain, the spell causes it to do half damage.
Nothing in the spell precludes its use on ranged weapons. However, since you said that I re-read it and it can only be used on "free falling" objects. So unless that boulder is falling quite a distance it wouldn't be useful. However it could still slow a boulder enough to move out from under it assuming that boulder was thrown far enough that it was "free falling" by the end of it's trajectory.
I digress. Regardless of how you feel about boulder example, it's still an excellent low level solution to the whole "plummeting to your death" issue.
Feather fall. You know that boulder the enemy just fired at you? Not a problem.A thrown boulder qualifies as a "ranged weapon" which the spell description says it will not affect. If it's just a boulder falling off a mountain, the spell causes it to do half damage.Nothing in the spell precludes its use on ranged weapons. However, since you said that I re-read it and it can only be used on "free falling" objects. So unless that boulder is falling quite a distance it wouldn't be useful. However it could still slow a boulder enough to move out from under it assuming that boulder was thrown far enough that it was "free falling" by the end of it's trajectory.
I digress. Regardless of how you feel about boulder example, it's still an excellent low level solution to the whole "plummeting to your death" issue.
Just so you know, from the spell description: "This spell has no special effect on ranged weapons unless they are falling quite a distance."
I suppose "quite a distance" is up to your GM, but that would hardly seem to apply to a thrown boulder.
Just so you know, from the spell description: "This spell has no special effect on ranged weapons unless they are falling quite a distance."I suppose "quite a distance" is up to your GM, but that would hardly seem to apply to a thrown boulder.
On the downward trajectory it is free falling as is the nature of siege weapons and physics. However I don't want to threadjack over something as trivial as what constitutes a free falling object.
Regargless, I stand by the value of the spell based it fixing the "falling to your death" issue.
Second on the stone shape vote.
We've actually used it to pepper an encounter with ranged attacks through misshapen holes and divits in the walls, since it doesn't allow "precise" sculpting.
There's also entombing the encounter by stoneshaping over a door, making a passage through rock, providing cover by a rising projection, making "stairways" for those that lack fly spells.....
It's amazingly versatile, just on it's own.
As useful as stone shape is (and I nominated it because I think it is one of the most useful spells there is) most players I have played with greatly over-estimate how much stone it actually is able to shape. It really is quite limited, which means you have to be very creative.
Just so you know, from the spell description: "This spell has no special effect on ranged weapons unless they are falling quite a distance."I suppose "quite a distance" is up to your GM, but that would hardly seem to apply to a thrown boulder.
On the downward trajectory it is free falling as is the nature of siege weapons and physics. However I don't want to threadjack over something as trivial as what constitutes a free falling object.
Regargless, I stand by the value of the spell based it fixing the "falling to your death" issue.
I won't "threadjack" either, but I do want to be sure that readers of this realize your interpretation probably won't satisfy their GM. The fact that a boulder is "free falling" does not somehow magically make the thrown boulder suddenly not a ranged weapon.
And as far as the "not falling to your death", since that is the universally acknowledged purpose of the spell, it is hard to see how it is "underrated" in that regard.
*Le sigh*
yes I'm confident your opinion is the only valid one and I defer to your obvious expertise.
*Le sigh*
yes I'm confident your opinion is the only valid one and I defer to your obvious expertise.
Look coffee, its not my fault you posted something without reading the rules, denied the existence of the rules I pointed out, forcing me to quote them, then twisted your "logic" into knots trying to support your original erroneous reading, and now want to accuse me of imposing my will on you because you are unable to simply admit you were wrong.
I just want to keep someone from getting this wrong in-game based on your error.
Flame on.
Flame on.
*Le sigh*
Answer me this.
What is the difference between the following and which are "free falling objects?":
1) a boulder that erosion causes to fall off a cliff (falling the direction of gravity. aka; down)
2) a boulder that a hill giant pushed off a cliff with his foot (falling the direction of gravity. aka; down)
3) a boulder, fired from a treabuche, after the apex of it's flight. (ie no force is acting on it other than gravity and remnants of the initial force that moved it horizontal )
4) a boulder thrown directly down at a PC by a giant on the same trajectory and speed as the first boulder example.
It's a rehetorical question. the point is that the spell works on free falling objects and I'm quite familiar with what the spell says. It is underrated (a subjective term) because it is often not prepared when it could be used for multiple outcomes.
Just because you have a very strong opinion on the matter does not make you correct.
School: transmutation
Level: bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, summoner 1, magus 1
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Components: V
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: one Medium or smaller freefalling object or creature/ level, no two of which may be more than 20 ft. apart
Duration: until landing or 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: yes (object)
The affected creatures or objects fall slowly. Feather fall instantly changes the rate at which the targets fall to a mere 60 feet per round (equivalent to the end of a fall from a few feet), and the subjects take no damage upon landing while the spell is in effect. When the spell duration expires, a normal rate of falling resumes. The spell affects one or more Medium or smaller creatures (including gear and carried objects up to each creature's maximum load) or objects, or the equivalent in larger creatures: a Large creature or object counts as two Medium creatures or objects, a Huge creature or object counts as four Medium creatures or objects, and so forth. This spell has no special effect on ranged weapons unless they are falling quite a distance. If the spell is cast on a falling item, the object does half normal damage based on its weight, with no bonus for the height of the drop. Feather fall works only upon free-falling objects. It does not affect a sword blow or a charging or flying creature.
As useful as stone shape is (and I nominated it because I think it is one of the most useful spells there is) most players I have played with greatly over-estimate how much stone it actually is able to shape. It really is quite limited, which means you have to be very creative.
Obviously, you've never been to my stone shape discussion. :D
If you take into account ONLY the stone you move/transform, you can actually manipulate quite a lot. For example, you don't stone shape the ceiling to turn it into a bunch of spheres that collapse upon your foes, you stone shape the space IN BETWEEN the spheres to move out of the way. None of the resulting spherical shapes is counted against the spell's volume limitations, since the only stone you effectively moved/transformed is the space in between them.
I just discovered Calcific touch. I dismissed the spell as useless when I first read it, but I can see how dealing no-save Dexterity damage could be useful in many situations - especially to one or two-shot powerful enemies with low dex (like Oozes, huge dragons, Purple Worms, etc...). Proably best combined with Reach Spell, though.Oh MAN. Why does the Magus have to be level 18 before he can enjoy this!
A soul draining Familiar comes to mind with this spell though.
Actually, if you are referring to gaining the spell through Greater Spell Access, that's at 19th. But, you can get the spell as early as 12th through the Spell Blending arcana.
Expedious retreat is underrvalued I think. it's perfect for maneuvering in combat or running away. I have an arcane trickster who uses that spell plus spring attack to move into and out of flanking position without the enemy even knowing it. He also has a crap ton of acrobatics to avoid AOO's.
RD, heh, that's a great point.
Coffee, I concur on expeditious retreat. Mobility in combat is a highly under utilized tactic. (To be fair, that's in part because the game is so biased towards getting as many full attacks as you can.)
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Hypnotism. It's a Charm Person that lasts forever.
Answer me this.
What is the difference between the following and which are "free falling objects?":
1) a boulder that erosion causes to fall off a cliff (falling the direction of gravity. aka; down)
2) a boulder that a hill giant pushed off a cliff with his foot (falling the direction of gravity. aka; down)
3) a boulder, fired from a treabuche, after the apex of it's flight. (ie no force is acting on it other than gravity and remnants of the initial force that moved it horizontal )
4) a boulder thrown directly down at a PC by a giant on the same trajectory and speed as the first boulder example.It's a rehetorical question. the point is that the spell works on free falling objects and I'm quite familiar with what the spell says. It is underrated (a subjective term) because it is often not prepared when it could be used for multiple outcomes.
I'm sorry to bring this back up again, but let me point out that (even according to the quote you posted) the spell never refers to "free falling objects", but rather states that it only affects ranged objects if they fall "quite a distance".
My question to YOU is, what's the point of putting a specific clause in there regarding ranged weapons if, by your logic, EVERY ranged weapon is fair game for use with Feather Fall?
The distinction, as I see it, is whether it deals normal falling damage, or damage based on the attack. In the examples you listed, examples 1 and 2 would be considered falling objects (since they would deal damage based on falling damage), whereas 3 and 4 would deal damage based on how much damage the giant/trebuchet deals. It doesn't matter if you're assuming they have the same trajectory- game-mechanics-wise, they're different. If you have to change your opinion of how to picture it to make that work, then go for it.
Just because you have a very strong opinion on the matter does not make you correct.
Not to gang up here, but I find it funny that you said this statement because it looks like you should keep the same thing in mind.
Blacklight
I never see it mentioned, but I love that spell.
Ravingdork, your my new hero on Stoneshape.
"Mending." Incredible spell. Had to cut your rope up to tie up a prisoner, but now need a full 50' of rope to climb down a hole? No problem. Somebody sundered your shield? Good as new. Rust monster wrecked your armor? Fix 1d4 hit points per round and remove the broken condition."Stone Shape" can be used to create arrow slits through walls into rooms to soften up the opposition as you break or knock down the door.
Mending becomes a lot less awesome if you read it. 10 minutes casting time, and you need CL 10 for a hemp rope.
Awesome on the stone shape though.
Shatter
I don't know if it is underrated, per se, only that I think it is one of the handiest spells in the game and I see so few people using it. I mean a wand of shatter can destroy every medium sized weapon in the game, and a 5th level caster eats full plate. Why isn't every caster using this all the time? It's also great for non-equipment as well. I've destroyed chains or ropes for cages or bridges. I blew up a door once (the DM had some way of keeping knock from working. Oh, wagon wheel destruction was another handy use for this awesome spell. I just really love this one.
With a generous DM, shatter can be great- but I've seen rules-lawyers have a field day with it. For example, what constitutes a single object? Is a wagon wheel an object, or is it part of the whole wagon? If you allow a wagon wheel to be shattered rather than considering it all one object, then wouldn't that mean that casting shatter on a suit of full plate would only destroy one piece of it rather than the entire suit? Also, shatter only works on non-magical objects, meaning that it'll probably only be useful for shattering equipment at lower levels.
As a DM I've always wanted to make a dungeon where EVERYTHING could be shattered. Make it a crystal dungeon with Crystaline trolls (they had them in 3.5) and Constructs.
Never got around to doing it, but It would have gotten that spell on the Wizard's list and maybe even inspired her to use it more in the future.
As a DM I've always wanted to make a dungeon where EVERYTHING could be shattered. Make it a crystal dungeon with Crystaline trolls (they had them in 3.5) and Constructs.
Never got around to doing it, but It would have gotten that spell on the Wizard's list and maybe even inspired her to use it more in the future.
Not 100% on-topic, but back in the 3e days I remember reading someone on a D&D forum saying that he had an epic-level character that had made it so that he could, at will, cast something like a Widened/Extended/Silent/Stilled/Quickened Shatter spell. The way he used it, every time he entered a room, everything (windows, chairs, small objects, sculptures, lamps, etc.) exploded. Talk about making an entrance!
"Mending." Incredible spell. Had to cut your rope up to tie up a prisoner, but now need a full 50' of rope to climb down a hole? No problem. Somebody sundered your shield? Good as new. Rust monster wrecked your armor? Fix 1d4 hit points per round and remove the broken condition."Stone Shape" can be used to create arrow slits through walls into rooms to soften up the opposition as you break or knock down the door.
Mending becomes a lot less awesome if you read it. 10 minutes casting time, and you need CL 10 for a hemp rope.
Awesome on the stone shape though.
Well, it's been a rare situation that mending would be used in any situation where the 10 minute casting time is an issue, although if something needs a dozen "mendings" to fix it, that could be an issue. Any character of mine that carries a rope is going to be carrying a silk rope anyway, so that's only CL 5, and at CL 3 you can fix 30 feet of silk rope.
But you are correct that the 1 pound/level limitation does reduce its effectiveness somewhat.
Illusory Script
Really, truly, seriously my favorite 3rd level wizard/sorcerer spell.
I don't have the skill (or the inclination to learn the skill) to dig it up and post it here... but go read it.
Dr. Who's psychic paper, done right.
Perfect forgeries.
A "Get Out Of Jail Free" card.
A permanent, re-useable suggestion.
Just Heighten that baby up every time you gain a new level of spells.
Endless utility...
Alitan, I was bummed to learn that "Illusory Script" was not on the witch spell list. It's definitely a great spell, but somewhat situational. It's not all that great for traditional room to room dungeon crawls, for instance. But for campaigns with lots of social interplay, it's an excellent spell.
A spell I haven't seen listed which isn't all that great maybe for player characters, but I use all the time for my NPCs is "mask dweomer". Great for hiding those magic items...
I'm a fan of "bestow curse" as well. Particularly for "create your own curse" purposes... Can be a fun spell.
I seem to recall witches being able to convert arcane scrolls into spell knowledge for their familiars... mind you, it's been almost a year since I saw a copy of APG. But a little bit of UMD could do the trick for a witch...
I disagree, about mask dweomer (mask aura?) not being good for PCs... I use it, actually, so that my gear doesn't give itself away.
And bestow curse is amazing; even it's 'out of the box' effects are great.
Witches can convert arcane spells into witch spells, but they have to be on the witch spell list. "Illusory Script" isn't. I am maxing out UMD for my witch so that I can use non-witch spells from scrolls or wands, but at level 3 that's still sorta iffy...
Yeah, I like the basic "bestow curse" effects too, but for role playing purposes, custom curses can be a lot of fun.
In my experience PCs using "mask dweomer" is pretty GM or even party specific. For most games I see these days it's not used very much by PCs. But for those situations where it is game impacting, you are right, it's a great PC spell as well.
I have to nominate Mount.
Saved my character's life, it did.
Running away from a serious brute of a beastie, I was approaching a wall. Tension mounted as I was a wizard that was unable to fly or teleport. I cast Mount and hopped on top of the horse to lift me and I climbed onto the other side. Once I got over the wall the baddie in question began tearing into my horse. Fleeing for my life, I get an idea.
I cast Mount again.
Since the last horse disappeared, he resumed his chase. This time I actually got on to ride this one, which was barely faster than the creature trudging through the swamp.
I was the only survivor.
Feather fall. You know that boulder the enemy just fired at you? Not a problem.
A question tormenting me :
how does feather fall affect an hekatonchieres planar leap ability?
On a related, but slightly different topic, Does anyone use magic missile? I play a lot of casters and I rarely use it, but if a wand is in the loot above CL3 I'll consider using it.
Personally, I love Magic Missile. At higher levels, when you've got the 1st-level spells to burn, it's some guaranteed damage for relatively low resource cost. Not necessarily optimal, but fun and easy.